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gwenmand
Dear Friend,

I want to let you know about an important new campaign to get Ralph Nader into the presidential debates. (see www.letnaderdebate.org). Your support for this effort is important even if you do not intend to vote for him.

We are at a critical juncture in our country's history. I believe that we are facing a crisis in democracy where increasingly the views of ordinary Americans are not only not reflected in public policy but are barely even heard through "normal" channels. I am personally very concerned about the dangerously narrow perimeters of "debate" on every issue facing us from the war in Iraq to education and healthcare to same day voter registration.

From Lincoln-Douglas to Kennedy-Nixon to Clinton-Bush-Perot, the presidential debates have been an important forum for a national dialogue on the critical issues of our day. I would love to hear serious, perhaps sometimes contentious rather than scripted debate about our national priorities. Nader's inclusion would help to ensure that we have that kind of debate in 2004.

Personally, I am motivated by the issue of the War in Iraq. Polls show that the majority of Americans are critical of the conduct of the war, yet there is virtually no difference in the positions of President Bush and Senator Kerry a point that has been made by many commentators at this point.

In a political culture where partisan interests and corruption have become so dominant, it is important that we, as ordinary citizens, take responsibility and speak out. Please join me in an appeal to a fair and open debate by including Nader, a nationally known and respected independent presidential candidate. Without his inclusion, there will be no real dialogue.

To sign the open letter to President Bush, go to http://www.LetNaderDebate.org.
You can also join me by giving a donation to this grassroots effort, and by
emailing your friends and contacts about it to get the word out.

Thanks!
Gwen
Thaiquila
It is because of people like you that we now have suffer under the regime of W. Bush. And now you want to do this to us again.

Don't you realize that most of the people signing your petition will be BUSH SUPPORTERS? I see that you do not feel that John F. Kerry is left wing enough to you, but GET REAL. Nader does not have a chance in "jello" of winning, and the only difference he ever made and threatens to make again is as a SPOILER.

Your purist leftist idealism will get you nowhere.

Partisan anti-Bush democrats like me are wise to your Nader game. We will fight you and resist you at every turn with as much or even more passion than we fight against Bush.
Boon Mee
Ralph Nader is the man! Come on Ralph...keep the Democratic debate going! biggrin.gif
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Boon Mee @ Jul 6 2004, 02:44 AM)
Ralph Nader is the man! Come on Ralph...keep the Democratic debate going! biggrin.gif

You are exactly what I am talking about.
You hate Ralph Nader because you are a right wing ideologue.
Yet you are rooting for him.
Naderites, wake up!
imperator
QUOTE
Personally, I am motivated by the issue of the War in Iraq



War in Iraq eh? War is it ?? occupation, yes. Zone of minor conflicts, yes. War?? No. I don't see two governments clashing, i see a bunch of unruly third-worlders harrassing the occupying US troops.

QUOTE
Don't you realize that most of the people signing your petition will be BUSH SUPPORTERS?


you mean there are still some of them out there? blink.gif wink.gif

i wonder, are these people ignorant? mentally-challenged? mal-informed?

QUOTE
Partisan anti-Bush democrats like me are wise to your Nader game. We will fight you and resist you at every turn with as much or even more passion than we fight against Bush.


*raises eybrows* blink.gif


imperator
John L
QUOTE
I want to let you know about an important new campaign to get Ralph Nader into the presidential debates. (see www.letnaderdebate.org). Your support for this effort is important even if you do not intend to vote for him.-gwenmand

Welcome to the forum my good fellow/lady? I can see wonderful times betwixt thee and Thaiquila. Thaiquila is possibly in the process of leaving on a holy crusade to free the provinces of dasterdly Bushdom from tyranical rule. But, before he departs on this holy quest, may you have great enjoyment poking the illustrative shaft into his backside. For he will surely be more than willing to preempt the favour.

I would suspect that he probably harbours greater animosity in your direction than in mine. But I wouldn't bet my life upon it. wink.gif

And should M. Nader be allowed to debate? Most assuridly! I would place his podium just slightly to the left of M. Kerry's podium. That way, they would be within arm's legth, so as to be able to lock in such warm embrace.

Oh, by the way, did I mention that he was a VietNam war Veteran? smile.gif
Thaiquila
QUOTE (John L @ Jul 6 2004, 04:32 AM)
QUOTE
I want to let you know about an important new campaign to get Ralph Nader into the presidential debates. (see www.letnaderdebate.org). Your support for this effort is important even if you do not intend to vote for him.-gwenmand

Welcome to the forum my good fellow/lady? I can see wonderful times betwixt thee and Thaiquila. Thaiquila is possibly in the process of leaving on a holy crusade to free the provinces of dasterdly Bushdom from tyranical rule. But, before he departs on this holy quest, may you have great enjoyment poking the illustrative shaft into his backside. For he will surely be more than willing to preempt the favour.

I would suspect that he probably harbours greater animosity in your direction than in mine. But I wouldn't bet my life upon it. wink.gif

There you go again, crafty old John L., the sephardim intellectual of the board.

You have many times intimated the demo party needs to reject the extreme left wing part of the party to be successful, and now you see me, loyal democrat, attacking the extreme left wing. You should be applauding me. But I know you better. You are just another pro Bush republican.
Gop 4 life!
QUOTE (gwenmand @ Jul 6 2004, 02:10 AM)
Dear Friend,

I want to let you know about an important new campaign to get Ralph Nader into the presidential debates. (see www.letnaderdebate.org). Your support for this effort is important even if you do not intend to vote for him.

We are at a critical juncture in our country's history. I believe that we are facing a crisis in democracy where increasingly the views of ordinary Americans are not only not reflected in public policy but are barely even heard through "normal" channels. I am personally very concerned about the dangerously narrow perimeters of "debate" on every issue facing us from the war in Iraq to education and healthcare to same day voter registration.

From Lincoln-Douglas to Kennedy-Nixon to Clinton-Bush-Perot, the presidential debates have been an important forum for a national dialogue on the critical issues of our day. I would love to hear serious, perhaps sometimes contentious rather than scripted debate about our national priorities. Nader's inclusion would help to ensure that we have that kind of debate in 2004.

Personally, I am motivated by the issue of the War in Iraq. Polls show that the majority of Americans are critical of the conduct of the war, yet there is virtually no difference in the positions of President Bush and Senator Kerry a point that has been made by many commentators at this point.

In a political culture where partisan interests and corruption have become so dominant, it is important that we, as ordinary citizens, take responsibility and speak out. Please join me in an appeal to a fair and open debate by including Nader, a nationally known and respected independent presidential candidate. Without his inclusion, there will be no real dialogue.

To sign the open letter to President Bush, go to http://www.LetNaderDebate.org.
You can also join me by giving a donation to this grassroots effort, and by
emailing your friends and contacts about it to get the word out.

Thanks!
Gwen

God blees you and your candidate.

You will be helping to assure that a spinless francophone will NEVER have the chance to destroy this great nation as we know it.

If I had any time to spatr from campainging for our great President, I would be campainging for you guys as well.

Don't let the raving secularist dems here scare you.

John Kerry is attempting to FOOL THE MOST IGNORANT AMERICANS into thinking that he's a moderate.

He has indeed betrayed his radical-left roots.

GOOD LUCK!
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Gop 4 life! @ Jul 6 2004, 04:45 AM)
QUOTE (gwenmand @ Jul 6 2004, 02:10 AM)
Dear Friend,

I want to let you know about an important new campaign to get Ralph Nader into the presidential debates. (see www.letnaderdebate.org).  Your support for this effort is important even if you do not intend to vote for him.

We are at a critical juncture in our country's history. I believe that we  are facing a crisis in democracy where increasingly the views of ordinary Americans are not only not reflected in public policy but are barely even heard through "normal" channels. I am personally very concerned about the dangerously narrow perimeters of "debate" on every issue facing us from the war in Iraq to education and healthcare to same day voter registration. 

From Lincoln-Douglas to Kennedy-Nixon to Clinton-Bush-Perot, the presidential debates have been an important forum for a national dialogue on the critical issues of our day. I would love to hear serious, perhaps sometimes contentious rather than scripted debate about our national priorities. Nader's inclusion would help to ensure that we have that kind of debate in 2004.

Personally, I am motivated by the issue of the War in Iraq. Polls show that the majority of Americans are critical of the conduct of the war, yet there is virtually no difference in the positions of President Bush and Senator Kerry a point that has been made by many commentators at this point.

In a political culture where partisan interests and corruption have become so dominant, it is important that we, as ordinary citizens, take responsibility and speak out.  Please join me in an appeal to a fair and open debate by including Nader, a nationally known and respected independent presidential candidate. Without his inclusion, there will be no real dialogue.

To sign the open letter to President Bush, go to http://www.LetNaderDebate.org.
You can also join me by giving a donation to this grassroots effort, and by
emailing your friends and contacts about it to get the word out.

Thanks!
Gwen

God blees you and your candidate.

You will be helping to assure that a spinless francophone will NEVER have the chance to destroy this great nation as we know it.

If I had any time to spatr from campainging for our great President, I would be campainging for you guys as well.

Don't let the raving secularist dems here scare you.

John Kerry is attempting to FOOL THE MOST IGNORANT AMERICANS into thinking that he's a moderate.

He has indeed betrayed his radical-left roots.

GOOD LUCK!

I now deem you officially BBB, for BUSH BUTT BOY.
Just so you know.
You have earned it, amigo.
imperator
QUOTE
I can see wonderful times betwixt thee and Thaiquila. Thaiquila is possibly in the process of leaving on a holy crusade to free the provinces of dasterdly Bushdom from tyranical rule. But, before he departs on this holy quest, may you have great enjoyment poking the illustrative shaft into his backside. For he will surely be more than willing to preempt the favour.

I would suspect that he probably harbours greater animosity in your direction than in mine. But I wouldn't bet my life upon it.


you remind me of an old couple ...

however john, you do make me laugh!! now that was true humour there.

lmfao lmfao
QUOTE
But, before he departs on this holy quest, may you have great enjoyment poking the illustrative shaft into his backside. For he will surely be more than willing to preempt the favour.


we love you john!


Imperator
John L
QUOTE
You have many times intimated the demo party needs to reject the extreme left wing part of the party to be successful, and now you see me, loyal democrat, attacking the extreme left wing. You should be applauding me.-Thaiquila

But of course! The only problem is that I believe that you are destined to do the same, only please do it soonest! Come on, follow your Collectivist heart my dear ashkenazi acquainance. Take the giant leap into the future! Nervana is awaiting you and your kind. smile.gif
Gop 4 life!
LOL listen to tequila.

He's raving mad, shooting nothing but blanks, God I love radical-lefties, they're so bloody funny! laugh.gif
gwenmand
QUOTE
Partisan anti-Bush democrats like me are wise to your Nader game. We will fight you and resist you at every turn with as much or even more passion than we fight against Bush.



Do you not see something a bit strange (and exposing, in my opinion) about so-called progressive Democrats attacking the Nader campaign with more vengeance than they attack Bush? To me, that's extremely telling of what has become of our democracy, or lack thereof.
ft.niagara
"I want to let you know about an important new campaign to get Ralph Nader into the presidential debates. (see www.letnaderdebate.org). Your support for this effort is important even if you do not intend to vote for him."-gwenmand

The last time there was a three way debate, I voted for Perot. I think that anyone who has gone to the trouble that Nader has deserves to be heard. I offer my help. I think that this country might benefit from a more multiparty system as seen in some other countries.

Just signed the ipetition. Good Luck.
ft.niagara
QUOTE (John L @ Jul 6 2004, 04:50 AM)
QUOTE
You have many times intimated the demo party needs to reject the extreme left wing part of the party to be successful, and now you see me, loyal democrat, attacking the extreme left wing. You should be applauding me.-Thaiquila

But of course! The only problem is that I believe that you are destined to do the same, only please do it soonest! Come on, follow your Collectivist heart my dear ashkenazi acquainance. Take the giant leap into the future! Nervana is awaiting you and your kind. smile.gif

John L, I do not understand your reply to Thaiquila. It sounds something like Shakespear.
John L
QUOTE
John L, I do not understand your reply to Thaiquila. It sounds something like Shakespear.-niagra

In plain brown paper English, "Please put your money where your Collectivist mouth is and follow your real heart." In other words, "Out Damned Spot!" wink.gif
BIG BARRY
Mr. Nadar should be allowed to debate simply for the comic nature of his candidacy. He will surly pull votes from the Kerry campaign, and, in the end help Kerry to resume his career defending every social program in the senate that helps those who refuse to help themselves stay above water.

I will gladly watch the debate with Ralph included, and perhaps have a few good laughs at the same time. Ralph may accuse the President of being too right-wing and blah...blah..blah...however, when it comes to Kerry, it will be fun to watch Ralph accuse Kerry of being a liberal in the senate his whole career, and now, like a majical journey to become elected re-invent himself as a moderate centrist.

The truth is Kerry is a lying liberal who desserted his duties in Vietnam beciae he recieved a boo-boo for his 3rd purple heart and now hangs himself out there as a war hero, which in fact, is a joke.

The liberals are soooo happy just to have a democrat who actually wore a uniform for real that they'll jump on any bandwagon that has a good story as a cover to block themselves from the truth the sun forces out.

This should be fun to watch as the liberals get smoked out by Ralph.

I can hardly wait.
Gop 4 life!
I will watch with great eagerness.
HamsterGod
Nader supporters are interesting, generally far more left wing than any of the other parties candidates - would anyone say that Nader represents what pre-reagan democrats were?

Either way - he is far to socially idealistic to be taken seriously by the main stream and has taken a place in the hearts of the truly desperate voter.

This voter might be desperate for "change" in washington politics - this I can support, as can most of the posters on this board I am sure... This voter might just be un-educated when it comes to politics in general and thinks that it is a good idea to vote "different" than their mommy or daddy... This voter might truly agree with Naders politics - in which case, you should truly consider moving to a far more socialist country, the United States will never be so left wing, at least not in your life time... This voter might just not want the democrats to win, yet just can't vote personally for Bush...

Anyway, Nader is the spolier for the Democratic party, when you count his votes, it appears that him running will eliminate Kerrys chances for victory and ensure a victory for Bush - so, it would appear that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush...

Funny how the most left wing of voters are actually helping to put the most right wing of presidents into office - yet again...
Kerry for Senator
Funny how the left supports democracy until it hurts them.

Perot and to a lesser degree Buchanan were spoilers to the Republicans, but this was well accepted and endorsed by the left.

I heard a left talk show host telling greens and Nader supporters, that they were supporting Bush. Then a right supporter telling Libertarians (I am) that they are courting disaster if they don't vote for Bush.

1) It seems to me that the only wasted vote is not voting. America is better for the increased dialogue, and people that realize that the two existing parties are more alike than different. Fact is, that except for being a hawk, Clinton was more Republican, certainly fiscally, than GWB.

GWB wants to open the borders, free prescription drugs, solve AIDS in Africa, colonize the moon, yada yada yada.

2) During the much acclaimed CA governor repeal of Gray Davis, they had debates of I think 5 candidates. By far, the most erudite was Camahoe (sp.) who Nader chose for VP. Huffington & Schwarzenneger were a circus, McClintock a rollover, and who remembers the also ran? I don't agree with them, but I think that Nader and Camahoe bring a level to the debate that none of the other contenders can compete with.

How about the Republicans and Democrats worry a little more about their house, than ours, as it is clearly their houses which are in disorder. cool.gif
HamsterGod
Interesting statement - about the left only supporting democracy until it hurts them... very funny...

True that the right said the same when perot was running... though I think Perot garnerd both support from the left and the right... Nader is far too much of a leftest for him to impact GWB's support in any way, but, as a voter against GWB which many of the voters in this election will be, it would be silly to vote for a candidate that cannot win, unless of course you want to make a worthless statement and give the whitehouse to GWB
Thaiquila
Grow up idealists!
We live in a world of REALPOLITIK and both parties will do what it takes to win. It so happens that who wins this upcoming election is critically important, and the difference between Bush and Kerry is extreme.
Again, I trust the American people will make the correct choice, and Kerry will win, except if Bush pulls something illegal to steal it from him.
Kerry for Senator
Hey Lord of the Flies, Hamster God, whatever you call yourself these days.

You just prove my statement.

Some of us realize that a vote for Kerry and Bush is a "wasted" vote.

How about you stand for a principle, rather than blowing in the wind.

If it is right for Perot & Buchanan to run, then it is right for Nader.

Stop being a hypocrite.
HamsterGod
Im not, I do stand for something, and that is to get GWB out of office and to shut you and the rest of your bushite friends up...
imperator
QUOTE
John L, I do not understand your reply to Thaiquila. It sounds something like Shakespear.


ROARS WITH LAUGHTER!!
HamsterGod
QUOTE (imperator @ Jul 6 2004, 09:22 PM)
QUOTE
John L, I do not understand your reply to Thaiquila. It sounds something like Shakespear.


ROARS WITH LAUGHTER!!

Laughing so loud, my ears hurt... I should have seen that one before... John L sounds like shakespear... LOL
Kerry for Senator
QUOTE (HamsterGod @ Jul 6 2004, 09:12 PM)
Im not, I do stand for something, and that is to get GWB out of office and to shut you and the rest of your bushite friends up...

I guess you become God of the Hamsters by being the quickest around the wheel, not the most intelligent?

I'm not voting for Bush, and I'm not wasting my vote.

How do you miss that?

Blinded by your own hatred, are you?

Trust me, you may be quicker around the wheel, but Kerry is no better than Bush.

I hope Kerry wins, maybe you will wake up to the fact that the rest of the world really hates you. You probably miss Carter, double didgit inflation, 12% unemployment, gas lines, etc, because he was not Reagan as well?

Watch what you ask for, oh great God of Hamsters.
imperator
QUOTE
I guess you become God of the Hamsters by being the quickest around the wheel, not the most intelligent?

I'm not voting for Bush, and I'm not wasting my vote.

How do you miss that?

Blinded by your own hatred, are you?

Trust me, you may be quicker around the wheel, but Kerry is no better than Bush.

I hope Kerry wins, maybe you will wake up to the fact that the rest of the world really hates you. You probably miss Carter, double didgit inflation, 12% unemployment, gas lines, etc, because he was not Reagan as well?

Watch what you ask for, oh great God of Hamsters


exceedingly well put, if a bit harsh cool.gif



Imperator
HamsterGod
QUOTE (Kerry for Senator @ Jul 6 2004, 09:35 PM)
QUOTE (HamsterGod @ Jul 6 2004, 09:12 PM)
Im not, I do stand for something, and that is to get GWB out of office and to shut you and the rest of your bushite friends up...

I guess you become God of the Hamsters by being the quickest around the wheel, not the most intelligent?

I'm not voting for Bush, and I'm not wasting my vote.

How do you miss that?

Blinded by your own hatred, are you?

Trust me, you may be quicker around the wheel, but Kerry is no better than Bush.

I hope Kerry wins, maybe you will wake up to the fact that the rest of the world really hates you. You probably miss Carter, double didgit inflation, 12% unemployment, gas lines, etc, because he was not Reagan as well?

Watch what you ask for, oh great God of Hamsters.

I would have to say that my last comment was meant as more of a bait than anything...

You actually have no idea what I am looking for, and, by your last comments, it appears that you are the one full of hatred...

One could argue that Carter inherited a recession, couldnt they?

One thing is for sure, Im not sure what side you are on, but you are definatly a flamer...
Kerry for Senator
[quote=HamsterGod,Jul 6 2004, 09:53 PM] Watch what you ask for, oh great God of Hamsters. [/QUOTE]
I would have to say that my last comment was meant as more of a bait than anything...

You actually have no idea what I am looking for, and, by your last comments, it appears that you are the one full of hatred...

One could argue that Carter inherited a recession, couldnt they?

One thing is for sure, Im not sure what side you are on, but you are definatly a flamer... [/quote]
HamsterGod,

"flamer..."

Are you questioning my sexual orientation now?

"more of a bait than anything... "

We all know your proclivity to dominate. Please for the sake of possible children visiting this web site, do not start calling yourself MasterBaitor.

"One could argue that Carter inherited a recession, couldnt they?"

Sure, one can argue a lot of nonsense. Butterfly proves that.

"Im not sure what side you are on"

What, is there only two sides to a triangle, square, pentagon? www.lp.org How many times do I have to tell you?

Everything I have said is what I feel. My only problem with you is that you only see glory in the actions of those you follow, and demonize the other side. Don't worry, I'll move on to the other side. They tend to be more logical than the emotional left, but they are none the less misguided.

Ut oh Chongo, I just pissed everyone off. ohmy.gif
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