Torture charge mercenary 'works for Rumsfeld'

By Nick Meo in Kabul
22 July 2004


An American mercenary caught running a private torture chamber in Kabul claimed he was working for Donald Rumsfeld before the first day of a trial yesterday that could land him in an Afghan prison for 20 years.

Jonathan Idema, a former Green Beret, said he had Pentagon approval for what Kabul authorities called a private anti-terrorist campaign. Mr Idema told journalists he had been in regular contact with the Defence Secretary's office and other senior Pentagon officials by phone, fax and e-mail. US authorities in Afghanistan have called him a mercenary and denied official links the day before he was arrested.

He was seized by Afghans after a shootout at a private prison where eight beaten detainees were found hanging upside down. Mr Idema said he had been abandoned by the US government, telling reporters: "The American authorities absolutely condoned what we did; they absolutely supported what we did."

Two other Americans were arrested with him, including a television producer.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/s...sp?story=543327

Oh, no. I am shocked

We all know that US mercernaries (aka defense private contractors) would never do such a thing. Americans have so much higher morals, they would never go that low.

why do you hate freedom ?

You girlies really should'nt be playing hide the salami together.

Individual or collective acts of barbarity need to be investigated, and those who comit them brought to book.

This really adds very little to the overall debate. Both countries were worse before the US invasion than after if this is the point you are desperately trying to make..

wow!

thanks for the insightful, relevent comments!

its good to see youre doing your part to help the conservative cause!

LMAO.




when u have 94 cases of prisoner abuse (read: torture), 40 of them resulting in death, and many of the sick "interrogation tactics" used in Abu Ghraib approved by Donald Rumsfeld himself, there is no way this can be seen as "individual" or isolated incidences.

ESPECIALLY when put into the historical context alongside similar abuses that ocurred in Vietnam 30 years ago.

no.. this is a symptom of a sickness within our military system, which from the start is used to program impressionable young people, many of them poor and uneducated, into becoming brutal killing machines that dehumanize the enemy.

when we have a president that says "God is on our side", while accusing the other side of being "evil"; when we have a large portion of our society (many of whom are on this board) that take a nonchalant approach to civilians being killed or "zapped"; when we have many people in our society that dehumanize Arabs and Muslims as "sand niggers" or "camel jockeys", just as we did calling the Vietnamese "gooks" and "slopes", IT IS NO MYSTERY WHY THESE SOLDIERS TREAT IRAQI PRISONERS AS NOTHING MORE THAN ANIMALS OR OBJECTS.

it is INGRAINED in our psychology as a society in general, and is then focused and refined and concentrated within our troops thru training and desensitization.


and rather than live up to the principles that make our country the greatest on earth, the most important of which is the principle that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, we turn our backs and close our minds and justify it to ourselves and explain it away as either "a fact of war", or "they deserved it" or "its just an isolated incident", all to appease our conscience and make ourselves feel better; ANYTHING to avoid having to look at ourselves as imperfect human beings, JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD.

so nothing will be done about it. we've thoroughly convinced ourselves that, despite ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, it is not our system that is flawed, but rather just "isolated individuals".... and so we make no fuss to demand that Donald Rumsfeld and the Department of Defense disclose their information to us, rather than whitewash the investigation and continue the cycle of desensitization to the suffering of human lives across the globe.




this is pure rhetoric and u have NO EVIDENCE TO BACK UP THESE CLAIMS.

simply repeating "theyre better off now" over and over again doesnt make it true.

in REALITY, according to the president of Afghanistan Hamid Karzai himself, the rampant warlords and private militias are as bad as the taliban..

"The warlords and private militias who were once regarded as the west's staunchest allies in Afghanistan are now a greater threat to the country's security than the Taliban, according to the interim president, Hamid Karzai."

UK Guardian, July 13, 2004 http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/stor...1259689,00.html

poppy crops and opium/heroin production have increased dramatically since the fall of the Taliban......

“The ISAF commander has said it is not NATO's mission to burn down poppy fields. That has created the paradoxical situation in which drug production and trade are flourishing like never before under protection of Western soldiers,“ said Wolfgang Bornsen, who serves in the German parliament.

a report by the Afghan Research and Evaluation Unit, "the Taliban are far from defeated, poppy production has soared, and regional warlords are still brazen in their abuse of citizens and in their dealings with the central government."

UK Guardian, July 21, 2004 http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,...1265390,00.html



as for Iraq, the country is now in the middle of a war, overrun by violence and terrorism, both domestic and foreign.

a minumum of 11,000 civilians have died, and the infrastructure is crumbling.

according to BBC News: One of the main problems is waste water pouring out of Baghdad's main sewage plants.
Iraq's ancient sewage system collapsed during the war and insecurity is hampering efforts to repair it.
Not a drop has been treated yet at the Rustumiya works, which was damaged during the war and then looted.
Much of Baghdad's untreated waste, the sewage of more than two-and-a-half million people, is now flowing straight into the River Tigris.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3922055.stm

according to the Iraqi Ministry of Labor, over 28% of Iraq's workforce is unemployed.

disbanding the Iraqi military, one of the many poor decisions of the US/UK coalition has left half a million trained Iraqi soldiers without income.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?ed...article_id=6293

it doesnt take a genius to figure out that more poor, unemployed, disgruntled Iraqi's means more perfect candidates for militias and insurgencies.



sewage in the street. polluted water. unemployment. terrorists. insurgents. warlords. civilian casualties. increase in drug production.


SURE SOUNDS LIKE THINGS ARE GETTING "BETTER" TO ME!


i have provided plenty of FACTS that neither Iraq NOR Afghanistan are "better off" since US invasion and occupation.. do NOT respond to this post if u cannot leave your rhetoric at the door and provide FACTS to the contrary.

Surprise.

You Sir Must have alot of time on your hands. I welcome your evidence with reguard to both countries.

I accept of course that when entire systems of government are torn down, this is damaging, and these wounds take time to mend.

However, my evidence comes from the fact that Saddam has been removed from power, and the fact that the sanctions have been removed. These two facts lead me to the conclusion that Iraq is getting better, and will continue to do so.

We shall see over the course of time who's outlook is right. Particularly after the elections due to take place in January.

You mean..those elections that Bush is gonna postpone if he thinks he's gonna lose.

This guy is a radical socialist troll who clearly enjoys bashing America, he's fast following in Smithy's foot steps.

Typical radical liberal conspiracy nut.

In fact I think that this statement is true. The purpose of going into Afghanistan was not to make Afganistan a better place, but to protect the US from further attack. At least the training camps have been removed, if not all the heros caught. If poppy production is a problem, it is a European problem. Most of the Afghanistan production goes to Europe I once heard on a news broadcast. Furthermore, it is too bad Iraqi unemployment is 24%, but it was probably higher before the war. Exact links can not be produced, even if anyone wanted to research them, because those statistics are not available.

Actually, Huey, your form of debating is better defined as trolling. I notice that many of the conservative posters are not even bothering to respond to your flames.

time on my hands?

lol. no.. its called LIVING IN AMERICA and having a vested interest in the future of my country.

u live in "jolly ol" England.. American politics is just a hobby to u...

but its LIFE or DEATH for those of us that love this great country and dont want to see it brought to ruin by a senseless, warmongering madman who has little interest in the effects of his policies other than to see the bank accounts of his corporate cronies swell, even if it is at the expense of others.


the rest of your post is irrelevent.


your previous statement was clear: "iraq IS better off, afghanistan IS better off"

u didnt say "will be better off" or "may be better off", u said they ARE better off, and i provided u with factual evidence that this is simply not the case at all.

u responded with more party lines and rhetoric, not fact and evidence.
that may pass in your little high school debate classes over in Britland, and it may work with some of the lesser educated folks on this board, but it doesnt work with me buddy.


u have no leg to stand on, other than HOPES and WISHES that Iraq and Afghanistan may some day be these "shining beacons of Democracy", courtesy of the "ingenious" policies of President Bush and the United States Military.


situations on the ground after 2.5 years in Afghanistan and 1.5 in Iraq show otherwise, and all evidence indicates that situations are getting worse, not better.


before countries can be rebuilt, order and security must be restored.

this is not the case in Afghanistan, as warlords, druglords, insurgents and remnants of the Taliban have resorted to criminal tribalism, with your average citizens caught in the middle.

this is not the case in Iraq, as we now have half a million ex-soldiers from Saddam's military, and 28% of the workforce out of work with nothing to do and foreign troops in their backyard. insurgencies are increasing, violence is increasing, and we dont have the troops or supplies to deal with the issue.


as i said before "my lad", u have to come with more than lame rhetoric and insubstantive Disneyland-Dreams about the "hopeful future of Iraq" if u want to argue with a REAL American patriot.

No. I mean the elections in Iraq. The US elections are in November. Wow! You have a fine grip of current events!



I'm on your side! Can you actually read? I'm a neo-conservative! (although I would rather be described as a liberal interventionist)

HUEY P:

You are certainly an intelligent poster, and I could never convince you that my outlook is any better than yours, so I do not feel particularly inclined to try very hard, especially when you bring up well documented fact (which I was well aware of).

I am simply pointing out to you that our petty arguement will be laid to rest in another 5 years, when the real results of our our actions can be fairly judged by history. Until that time, you can argue until you are blue in the face that we are'failing,' and I can simply point out to you that things have improved and continue to improve using slightly more right wing media sources than those that you choose, but I'm not going to waste my time looking for them at present, since I have better things to do.

A BBC poll shows that a majority of Iraqi's support the war and look forward to the future fo their country, and I support them in their quest for democracy:

Iraq Poll

IF WE FAIL THIS WAR WILL HAVE BEEN WRONG, and neo-conservatives will have to think again before intervening in this manner.

IF WE SUCCEED however, it is the left that will have to finally relent once again as they lose a second battle on foreign policy with right-wing America (the first being the Cold War).

We should have all learned lessons from this debacle! It is important that we learn the right lesons!