You know something is very, very wrong when millions of Americans are forced to break the law to obtain affordable prescription drugs!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L&type=business
They are going to Canada, either in person, or by internet sites, to obtain the life saving prescriptions they need. bush and company with the medicare "reform" bill handed the shop to the pharmaceutical companies on a platter. Americans are charged way more for meds that any other people on the planet. The ruse that this money is needed for more research is a BIG LIE. The majority of money these drug firms make is spent on ADVERTISING, not research.
Americans forced to break the laws of their own country just to survive! It is shameful. No western European country would put up with this corruption.
And why does this concern the US political election????
bush OPPOSED to legalizing import of Canadian meds
KERRY IN FAVOR of legalizing import of Canadian meds
Full Version: Another Symptom Of A Sick Health System
NUMBER fIVE!!! Again, NUMBER FIVE, NUNBER FIVE!!!!!! Here we go again. Nothing beats redundancy like NUMBER FIVE!!! 
D2, Diablo, this needs to be locked, as we already have a dozon other threads on the subject.
D2, Diablo, this needs to be locked, as we already have a dozon other threads on the subject.
This is a unique topic on the subject of prescription drug importation from Canada.
bush tries to pose as a "compassionate conservative" and also a believer in free international trade, but his position of keeping Canadian drug importation illegal proves that he is a SHAM. What is compassionate about denying people life saving drugs? What is pro free trade about stopping importation from Canada? bush is fully owned by the drug industry.
john l may want this locked because he knows the POWER of this issue to prove how brutally heartless bush is to his own citizens. All in the interest of obscene profits for the drug companies. Makes South American drug czars look like pussycats!
bush tries to pose as a "compassionate conservative" and also a believer in free international trade, but his position of keeping Canadian drug importation illegal proves that he is a SHAM. What is compassionate about denying people life saving drugs? What is pro free trade about stopping importation from Canada? bush is fully owned by the drug industry.
john l may want this locked because he knows the POWER of this issue to prove how brutally heartless bush is to his own citizens. All in the interest of obscene profits for the drug companies. Makes South American drug czars look like pussycats!
I believe that this post deserves a response... Why is this happening? I know that it is because it was covered by Newsnight some months ago..
There must be a reasonable explaination for this! The majority of the people I saw were over 60!
There must be a reasonable explaination for this! The majority of the people I saw were over 60!
Gideon,
People over 65 have a government program called Medicare that pays for a good deal, but not all, of their medical expenses. However, even with the new "discount" program cards that are being phased in for medicare recipients, the drug prices are still considerably higher than the drug prices from Canada. Many people cannot afford their medications AND their other costs like food and rent, so they need a break. The drugs imported from Canada are illegal to import because the drug industry is being protected by the bush regime. Many of the drugs imported are actually drugs MADE IN THE USA, imported to Canada, and then reimported to the US. The companies are making enough profit on their sales to Canada (Canada's national health system strictly negotiates and controls drug costs), but they are so GREEDY when selling to US citizens, and then they make people who want to exercise their economic freedom and shop abroad into CRIMINALS.
These meds are also needed by people of all ages who have no health insurance and/or decent drug benefit programs. These people must pay outrageously high retail prices for their meds. For example, a simple common asthma inhaler costs 90 dollars per canister. People who need that and cannot afford it end up as an expensive emergency room case or dead. People should at least have the freedom to make a free market choice in where they shop for their life saving meds.
There was an article in Mother Jones some months ago about a woman who's father was dying and required an expensive drug that might save her father's life. The drug (made in the US) cost over 150,000 dollars (yes, you heard that right) per year in the US. In France, it cost 2,000 dollars per year. This woman was forced to fly to France to ILLEGALLY SMUGGLE these meds back to the US.
That is why I say, Gideon, as a Britisher, you can have no idea how messed up the US medical system has become.
People like john l and bush want to run from this issue and not talk about it because they know when the record is examined, they are on the immoral and wrong side of this issue. bush and company would rather dig up dirt and stories from the Nam war than deal with real life issues of today's health care. The American people are smarter than this. They are ready to soundly reject bush's politics.
Another suggestion: go back to the first post in this string and enlarge the picture of the sweet oldies going to Canada. These could be your parents, grandparents, or YOU someday folks. Is this right????
People over 65 have a government program called Medicare that pays for a good deal, but not all, of their medical expenses. However, even with the new "discount" program cards that are being phased in for medicare recipients, the drug prices are still considerably higher than the drug prices from Canada. Many people cannot afford their medications AND their other costs like food and rent, so they need a break. The drugs imported from Canada are illegal to import because the drug industry is being protected by the bush regime. Many of the drugs imported are actually drugs MADE IN THE USA, imported to Canada, and then reimported to the US. The companies are making enough profit on their sales to Canada (Canada's national health system strictly negotiates and controls drug costs), but they are so GREEDY when selling to US citizens, and then they make people who want to exercise their economic freedom and shop abroad into CRIMINALS.
These meds are also needed by people of all ages who have no health insurance and/or decent drug benefit programs. These people must pay outrageously high retail prices for their meds. For example, a simple common asthma inhaler costs 90 dollars per canister. People who need that and cannot afford it end up as an expensive emergency room case or dead. People should at least have the freedom to make a free market choice in where they shop for their life saving meds.
There was an article in Mother Jones some months ago about a woman who's father was dying and required an expensive drug that might save her father's life. The drug (made in the US) cost over 150,000 dollars (yes, you heard that right) per year in the US. In France, it cost 2,000 dollars per year. This woman was forced to fly to France to ILLEGALLY SMUGGLE these meds back to the US.
That is why I say, Gideon, as a Britisher, you can have no idea how messed up the US medical system has become.
People like john l and bush want to run from this issue and not talk about it because they know when the record is examined, they are on the immoral and wrong side of this issue. bush and company would rather dig up dirt and stories from the Nam war than deal with real life issues of today's health care. The American people are smarter than this. They are ready to soundly reject bush's politics.
Another suggestion: go back to the first post in this string and enlarge the picture of the sweet oldies going to Canada. These could be your parents, grandparents, or YOU someday folks. Is this right????
Here's the deal with the pharmaceutical industry in the USA.
First you have the FDA. The Food and Drug Administration has strict and vast amounts of regulations regarding the efficacy and safety of any drug that is brought to market.
These regulations in turn drive the scope of the research necessary to get a drug approved.
Before a pharma company can even submit an NDA (New Drug Application), or the generic equivalent, scores of animal studies must be completed. These are called Phase I clinical trials, and they are very expensive. Before you even get to the animal trials though, there are years and years of laboratory research to find a candidate active ingredient. This costs millions of dollars.
After you prove efficacy and safety in animals, you must then go on to safety trials in humans. These are Phase II clinical trials. For companies within the USA, these trials are always conducted overseas as the FDA does not allow Phase II trials to be conducted on American citizens, even voluntarily. These trials can cost millions as well.
Once a drug has been proven to have limited adverse effects, it can be taken to Phase III trials. These are efficacy trials. These can be conducted in the US on volunteers or paid participants. These, too, cost millions of dollars.
Finally a drug company is ready to submit their application to the FDA and pay fees that run over $100,000 just to have their application looked at. That doesn't include the application fees, etc. Total cost up over $250,000. The kicker - if there is a drug on the market that treats the illness the drug company is targeting, the new drug had better have increased efficacy or decreased severity of side effects, or its thrown out the window, and all those millions of dollars are wasted.
Imagine getting to Phase III trials and finding out your new pet project is no better than the drug already on the market.
If the drug is approved, and the company can bring the drug to market, production costs are high, due to the necessity for sterile production.
This is ONE drug. When you hear that it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to develop one drug, you are hearing the truth. Many new pharma companies go under every year because they run out of money.
Now as to why Americans spend more money on their prescriptions than other countries.
1. Other countries do not have the strict regulations concerning drug development that the US has. Drugs developed overseas are cheaper, and American drugs sold there are cheaper as well.
2. Pharamceutical companies are not able to recoup their costs in profits from overseas sales, and thus they must be recouped somewhere. So they recoup it at home.
The only protection pharma companies have is by preventing drugs developed overseas from being sold in the US.
So what are you willing to give up? The FDA and your protection from dangerous, possibly lethal, drugs? Or the potential cure for pancreatic cancer?
What you should really be upset about is the ability of pharma companies to prevent generics from getting on the market. Pharma companies get a 7-year protection against generics, so they can recoup the cost that went into research, development, and production, which is fair. But what really sticks in my craw is the lawsuits they bring against the generic manufacturers in an effort to extend that hiatus. These have a max of 30 months to be resolved, but that's another 2 and a half years they can monopolize the market. Legal, but sneaky!
First you have the FDA. The Food and Drug Administration has strict and vast amounts of regulations regarding the efficacy and safety of any drug that is brought to market.
These regulations in turn drive the scope of the research necessary to get a drug approved.
Before a pharma company can even submit an NDA (New Drug Application), or the generic equivalent, scores of animal studies must be completed. These are called Phase I clinical trials, and they are very expensive. Before you even get to the animal trials though, there are years and years of laboratory research to find a candidate active ingredient. This costs millions of dollars.
After you prove efficacy and safety in animals, you must then go on to safety trials in humans. These are Phase II clinical trials. For companies within the USA, these trials are always conducted overseas as the FDA does not allow Phase II trials to be conducted on American citizens, even voluntarily. These trials can cost millions as well.
Once a drug has been proven to have limited adverse effects, it can be taken to Phase III trials. These are efficacy trials. These can be conducted in the US on volunteers or paid participants. These, too, cost millions of dollars.
Finally a drug company is ready to submit their application to the FDA and pay fees that run over $100,000 just to have their application looked at. That doesn't include the application fees, etc. Total cost up over $250,000. The kicker - if there is a drug on the market that treats the illness the drug company is targeting, the new drug had better have increased efficacy or decreased severity of side effects, or its thrown out the window, and all those millions of dollars are wasted.
Imagine getting to Phase III trials and finding out your new pet project is no better than the drug already on the market.
If the drug is approved, and the company can bring the drug to market, production costs are high, due to the necessity for sterile production.
This is ONE drug. When you hear that it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to develop one drug, you are hearing the truth. Many new pharma companies go under every year because they run out of money.
Now as to why Americans spend more money on their prescriptions than other countries.
1. Other countries do not have the strict regulations concerning drug development that the US has. Drugs developed overseas are cheaper, and American drugs sold there are cheaper as well.
2. Pharamceutical companies are not able to recoup their costs in profits from overseas sales, and thus they must be recouped somewhere. So they recoup it at home.
The only protection pharma companies have is by preventing drugs developed overseas from being sold in the US.
So what are you willing to give up? The FDA and your protection from dangerous, possibly lethal, drugs? Or the potential cure for pancreatic cancer?
What you should really be upset about is the ability of pharma companies to prevent generics from getting on the market. Pharma companies get a 7-year protection against generics, so they can recoup the cost that went into research, development, and production, which is fair. But what really sticks in my craw is the lawsuits they bring against the generic manufacturers in an effort to extend that hiatus. These have a max of 30 months to be resolved, but that's another 2 and a half years they can monopolize the market. Legal, but sneaky!
Cleo,
So do you agree or disagree with bush on the reimportation of drugs from Canada issue?
Millions of people are still breaking the law to get their meds from overseas and as far as I can tell your musings do not address the issue.
BTW: You have basically PARROTTED the PR PROPOGANDA of the pharma industry LOCK STOCK AND BARREL. If they can make a profit on the price they sell to Canadians, they can also make a profit selling at the same price to Americans. Their propogandists also have the gall to say the Canada drugs are not safe! (Scare tactics.) They are often the exact same drugs made at the exact same plant as the US sold drugs. It isn't about stopping profits for these companies, it isn't about sacrificing FDA safety or slowing research. It is about throwing some cold water on the OBSCENE PROFITS of these companies in favor of more humane prices, more CANADIAN LEVEL prices, for Americans.
The bottom line is that pure capitalists see health care as just another capitalist product. In real life, that illusion is NOT WORKING, and is KILLING PEOPLE.
On top of that, they talk out of two sides of their mouth. They are really for MONOPOLY CAPITALISM, not FREE MARKET CAPITALISM, by fixing the prices so high in the US and making it ILLEGAL for Americans to import the same drugs cheaper from abroad.
So do you agree or disagree with bush on the reimportation of drugs from Canada issue?
Millions of people are still breaking the law to get their meds from overseas and as far as I can tell your musings do not address the issue.
BTW: You have basically PARROTTED the PR PROPOGANDA of the pharma industry LOCK STOCK AND BARREL. If they can make a profit on the price they sell to Canadians, they can also make a profit selling at the same price to Americans. Their propogandists also have the gall to say the Canada drugs are not safe! (Scare tactics.) They are often the exact same drugs made at the exact same plant as the US sold drugs. It isn't about stopping profits for these companies, it isn't about sacrificing FDA safety or slowing research. It is about throwing some cold water on the OBSCENE PROFITS of these companies in favor of more humane prices, more CANADIAN LEVEL prices, for Americans.
The bottom line is that pure capitalists see health care as just another capitalist product. In real life, that illusion is NOT WORKING, and is KILLING PEOPLE.
On top of that, they talk out of two sides of their mouth. They are really for MONOPOLY CAPITALISM, not FREE MARKET CAPITALISM, by fixing the prices so high in the US and making it ILLEGAL for Americans to import the same drugs cheaper from abroad.
This is an interesting issue...
Thai, you have got to remember that in order for drugs to be developed AT ALL pharaceutical companies have to make a profit, however Cleo, I thought that that this profit was derived from patent laws which protected the 'intellectual property rights' for several years so that the costs of R and D could be re-couped.
It sounds to me like your usually sensible government is over-regulating the drug industry, and when you consider that these 'overseas' drug companies you are competing with are probably European, with the neccesary red tape and beurocracy that goes with it, I would suggest that the US needs to cut back on regulation and stop the protectionism which is pushing up prices, and preventing good drugs from abroad reaching American citizens.
Thai, you have got to remember that in order for drugs to be developed AT ALL pharaceutical companies have to make a profit, however Cleo, I thought that that this profit was derived from patent laws which protected the 'intellectual property rights' for several years so that the costs of R and D could be re-couped.
It sounds to me like your usually sensible government is over-regulating the drug industry, and when you consider that these 'overseas' drug companies you are competing with are probably European, with the neccesary red tape and beurocracy that goes with it, I would suggest that the US needs to cut back on regulation and stop the protectionism which is pushing up prices, and preventing good drugs from abroad reaching American citizens.
QUOTE ("gideon")
This is an interesting issue...
Thai, you have got to remember that in order for drugs to be developed AT ALL pharaceutical companies have to make a profit, however Cleo, I thought that that this profit was derived from patent laws which protected the 'intellectual property rights' for several years so that the costs of R and D could be re-couped.
Thai, you have got to remember that in order for drugs to be developed AT ALL pharaceutical companies have to make a profit, however Cleo, I thought that that this profit was derived from patent laws which protected the 'intellectual property rights' for several years so that the costs of R and D could be re-couped.
Very good gideon, which I addressed in my last paragraph. Name brand drugs have 7 years of "protection" from generics... it the underhanded tactics large pharma uses to extend that period of time that is really "criminal" (not really, but its not really fair)
QUOTE
It sounds to me like your usually sensible government is over-regulating the drug industry, and when you consider that these 'overseas' drug companies you are competing with are probably European, (Asia and South America are very good markets for US pharmaceutical companies, by the way) with the neccesary red tape and beurocracy that goes with it, I would suggest that the US needs to cut back on regulation and stop the protectionism which is pushing up prices, and preventing good drugs from abroad reaching American citizens.
And there are pros and cons. If the regulations were lessened we run the risk of drugs getting on the market that have serious adverse effects, I could make you lose sleep over some of the horror stories.....
....however the benefits would be cheaper drugs.
I used to do drug research for a small generic/proprietory pharma company, so I've been involved in the circus that is the FDA. It is a Catch-22.
I am more in favor of less bureaucracy in the FDA concerning the application process for NDA's and ANDA's, as well as allowing Phase II trials to be conducted on Americans. (I am surprised more people didn't react to that bit of information. It is such a callous, disrespectful attitude towards the people of other countries it makes me sick!)
I would also want there to be changes in the "get'em by the balls" attitude Big Pharma has towards generic manufacturers.
But to answer Thai's question
"So do you agree or disagree with bush on the reimportation of drugs from Canada issue?"
I would say I agree with Bush, until there are significant changes within the FDA, and with patent lawsuits. It is not right the a government agency have such a strangle hold on the industry, and expect them to take an even bigger hit.
You are attacking the issue the wrong way by throwing the ball completely in Bush's lap, Thai. You are letting your partisanship concerning Bush get in the way of a logical examination of the issue, and discounting many, many factors in your mission to attack him, that your thoughts hold no merit with me. Sorry.
Cleo,
You amaze me and disgust me. The nerve of you to support this bush sham policy.
You completely ignore the fact that millions, yes MILLIONS of Americans have decided to break the laws of their country to obtain PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS (not illicit drugs, mind you) from our good neighbor to the north, Canada.
These individuals find it in their own FREE WILL personal best interest to do this, and you have the gall to support bush's policy to keep this ILLEGAL.
More pleasure for me when we beat this batard's bottom in a few short months.
You amaze me and disgust me. The nerve of you to support this bush sham policy.
You completely ignore the fact that millions, yes MILLIONS of Americans have decided to break the laws of their country to obtain PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS (not illicit drugs, mind you) from our good neighbor to the north, Canada.
These individuals find it in their own FREE WILL personal best interest to do this, and you have the gall to support bush's policy to keep this ILLEGAL.
More pleasure for me when we beat this batard's bottom in a few short months.
Here is an interesting little article about the problems mentioned above, Reimporting Drugs Is OK, But It Misses The Point. 
Thanks for the article John,
It has clarified a few things to me...
I was unaware that patent laws only protected intellectual property rights in America! This is ridiculous.. However I can't understand why this article proposes scrapping the patent laws, since this would reduce the incentive to invest in R and D...
It is clear that America is the world leader in drug development, and perhaps an international treaty could be used to ensure that intellectual property is respected everywhere... It will be interesting to see what everyone else thinks...
It has clarified a few things to me...
I was unaware that patent laws only protected intellectual property rights in America! This is ridiculous.. However I can't understand why this article proposes scrapping the patent laws, since this would reduce the incentive to invest in R and D...
It is clear that America is the world leader in drug development, and perhaps an international treaty could be used to ensure that intellectual property is respected everywhere... It will be interesting to see what everyone else thinks...
You blasted IVORY TOWER right wing academics!
What does all of this mean to the chronically ill American who must choose between not eating and buying her prescriptions at bandit level prices, who also has the choice of breaking her countries laws to buy perfectly safe meds from Canada? Today? To stay alive today! She should break the law and get her meds.
Kerry, the civilized candidate agrees, bush the right wing anti poor people ideologue wants to keep this person a CRIMINAL.
What does all of this mean to the chronically ill American who must choose between not eating and buying her prescriptions at bandit level prices, who also has the choice of breaking her countries laws to buy perfectly safe meds from Canada? Today? To stay alive today! She should break the law and get her meds.
Kerry, the civilized candidate agrees, bush the right wing anti poor people ideologue wants to keep this person a CRIMINAL.
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 26 2004, 05:50 PM)
You blasted IVORY TOWER right wing academics!
What does all of this mean to the chronically ill American who must choose between not eating and buying her prescriptions at bandit level prices, who also has the choice of breaking her countries laws to buy perfectly safe meds from Canada? Today? To stay alive today! She should break the law and get her meds.
Kerry, the civilized candidate agrees, bush the right wing anti poor people ideologue wants to keep this person a CRIMINAL.
What does all of this mean to the chronically ill American who must choose between not eating and buying her prescriptions at bandit level prices, who also has the choice of breaking her countries laws to buy perfectly safe meds from Canada? Today? To stay alive today! She should break the law and get her meds.
Kerry, the civilized candidate agrees, bush the right wing anti poor people ideologue wants to keep this person a CRIMINAL.
Calm down.
Break the law, and be prepared to pay the price.
Don't like the law, then try to change it.
Has nothing to do with Bush, but the DC fat cats taking the perks of the drug companies, and putting themselves squarely in the pocket of such companies.
Shame on them.
Don't like the law, then try to change it.
Has nothing to do with Bush, but the DC fat cats taking the perks of the drug companies, and putting themselves squarely in the pocket of such companies.
Shame on them.
QUOTE (Kerry for Senator @ Aug 26 2004, 09:39 PM)
Break the law, and be prepared to pay the price.
Don't like the law, then try to change it.
Has nothing to do with Bush, but the DC fat cats taking the perks of the drug companies, and putting themselves squarely in the pocket of such companies.
Shame on them.
Don't like the law, then try to change it.
Has nothing to do with Bush, but the DC fat cats taking the perks of the drug companies, and putting themselves squarely in the pocket of such companies.
Shame on them.
It DOES have to do with Bush.
Bush is in FAVOR of the law.
Kerry is OPPOSED to the law.
Yes, indeed, we are trying to CHANGE THE LAW and provide more FREEDOM to our people.
Vote for Kerry to CHANGE THE LAW.
Simple enough, huh?
Yawn.........snzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 
TQ, the president doesn't make the laws.
Better yet, leave Kerry in the Senate. Maybe he can pull Teddy away from the bar, and make a difference in this country for the first time in 20 years.
PS- pipe down, or you'll wake Boon Mee
Better yet, leave Kerry in the Senate. Maybe he can pull Teddy away from the bar, and make a difference in this country for the first time in 20 years.
PS- pipe down, or you'll wake Boon Mee
QUOTE (Boon Mee @ Aug 26 2004, 10:05 PM)
Yawn.........snzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Strong point, there.
Guess you don't have an argument for keeping the import of Canadian meds illegal.
Maybe a yawn to you, but not the millions of Americans who need these meds.
If it doesn't concern you, it doesn't matter.
Typical heartless right wing attitude.
It is not a Thoughtless 'right-wing' attitude, but one must weigh the costs and benefits of the arguements, and if your arguement will criple America's ability to produce drugs through R and D it cannot be the correct response, although I certainly agree that a response is needed!
It seems that the problem is the lack of international respect for patent laws.. although I am not sure... which is why we discuss these things...
Sometimes Americans are far too partisan!!
It seems that the problem is the lack of international respect for patent laws.. although I am not sure... which is why we discuss these things...
Sometimes Americans are far too partisan!!
QUOTE (gideon2000uk @ Aug 26 2004, 11:24 PM)
It is not a Thoughtless 'right-wing' attitude, but one must weigh the costs and benefits of the arguements, and if your arguement will criple America's ability to produce drugs through R and D it cannot be the correct response, although I certainly agree that a response is needed!
It seems that the problem is the lack of international respect for patent laws.. although I am not sure... which is why we discuss these things...
Sometimes Americans are far too partisan!!
It seems that the problem is the lack of international respect for patent laws.. although I am not sure... which is why we discuss these things...
Sometimes Americans are far too partisan!!
Listen to this SCHOOL BOY:
OK, discuss it all you want and come to a conclusion that addresses the problem, but in the MEANTIME, and that could be years, how do you propose that those MILLIONS of Americans get their medications that they are now getting from Canada? Get REAL!
Policy makers are not as dumb as you think, and if it was REALLY tihs easy it would have been done, for electoral advantage if for nothing else.
The truth is that it is not this simple! You seem to suffer from over regulation, protectionism (pushing prices up) and patent laws which only seem to apply to your own country (again, pusihng prices up)...
It seems like a mess, but a short term fix could spell long-term disaster for R and D and drug development (talk about millions of deaths)...
The truth is that it is not this simple! You seem to suffer from over regulation, protectionism (pushing prices up) and patent laws which only seem to apply to your own country (again, pusihng prices up)...
It seems like a mess, but a short term fix could spell long-term disaster for R and D and drug development (talk about millions of deaths)...
Do not be fooled!
It is the DRUG COMPANIES which are the VILLIAN here, pure and simple.
The reason bush favors keeping the imports illegal is because he is COMPLETELY OWNED by the DRUG COMPANIES. Americans know this.
Note this law suit filed today by PHARMACIES in California against the DRUG COMPANIES, charging blantant OVERCHARGING for drugs.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...1718EDT0139.DTL
It is the DRUG COMPANIES which are the VILLIAN here, pure and simple.
The reason bush favors keeping the imports illegal is because he is COMPLETELY OWNED by the DRUG COMPANIES. Americans know this.
Note this law suit filed today by PHARMACIES in California against the DRUG COMPANIES, charging blantant OVERCHARGING for drugs.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...1718EDT0139.DTL
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 26 2004, 11:27 PM)
Listen to this SCHOOL BOY:
Gideon,
Don't let TQ & Huey get to you. Their just jealous that you are bettering yourself, and not joining the welfare band wagon.
PS- nothing wrong with the old avatar, but got to love the new one.
Here are a couple of other articles on the Prescription Drugs controversary, AND Healthcare. Evaluating Drugs, and Socialized Health Care Nightmare, and A Sales Pitch For Laissez-Faire Health Care.
I think that they are all great and will give more information that may not be accepted with open arms by either Democrats, or Republicans. Libertarians such as myself and KFS will agree however.
I think that they are all great and will give more information that may not be accepted with open arms by either Democrats, or Republicans. Libertarians such as myself and KFS will agree however.
Laissez-faire?
Sounds like then that you DO FAVOR the right of free Americans to buy their medications wherever they please. Correct?
Sounds like then that you DO FAVOR the right of free Americans to buy their medications wherever they please. Correct?
That's only a part of the entire arguement. Read it all and think "holistic". And in order to have that Laissez-Faire effect, you would have to also put the other parts into effect. Read all of them TQ, and you will get the point.
I'm for it. 
Also for Kerry staying in the Senate with Teddy where he can actually change this law, not just talk about it.
Wouldn't that be dandy? He would actually accomplish something in his tenure as senator.
Also for Kerry staying in the Senate with Teddy where he can actually change this law, not just talk about it.
Wouldn't that be dandy? He would actually accomplish something in his tenure as senator.
It is too embarassing even for John L (the thinly veiled bush backer) to actually say that he favors making it a CRIMINAL activity for chronically ill Americans to purchase their meds from Canada. Just as I thought.
QUOTE
It is too embarassing even for John L (the thinly veiled bush backer) to actually say that he favors making it a CRIMINAL activity for chronically ill Americans to purchase their meds from Canada. Just as I thought.-Thaiquila
So I am a thinly veiled Bush backer? You can be a real "unscrupulous Modifier" at times. (Oh, my gosh, I just went to check the spelling of "unscrupulous" and went to Google. And my earlier post on this was on Google! Can you believe that? It is the third one down. I'm famous!
)Anyway, TQ, you should be more forgiving and flexible. Try it, you just might like it!
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 26 2004, 11:38 PM)
Do not be fooled!
It is the DRUG COMPANIES which are the VILLIAN here, pure and simple.
The reason bush favors keeping the imports illegal is because he is COMPLETELY OWNED by the DRUG COMPANIES. Americans know this.
Note this law suit filed today by PHARMACIES in California against the DRUG COMPANIES, charging blantant OVERCHARGING for drugs.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...1718EDT0139.DTL
It is the DRUG COMPANIES which are the VILLIAN here, pure and simple.
The reason bush favors keeping the imports illegal is because he is COMPLETELY OWNED by the DRUG COMPANIES. Americans know this.
Note this law suit filed today by PHARMACIES in California against the DRUG COMPANIES, charging blantant OVERCHARGING for drugs.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...1718EDT0139.DTL
Really?! And here I thought he was owned by the oil companies...
QUOTE
Cleo,
You amaze me and disgust me. The nerve of you to support this bush sham policy.
You completely ignore the fact that millions, yes MILLIONS of Americans have decided to break the laws of their country to obtain PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS (not illicit drugs, mind you) from our good neighbor to the north, Canada.
These individuals find it in their own FREE WILL personal best interest to do this, and you have the gall to support bush's policy to keep this ILLEGAL.
More pleasure for me when we beat this batard's bottom in a few short months.
You amaze me and disgust me. The nerve of you to support this bush sham policy.
You completely ignore the fact that millions, yes MILLIONS of Americans have decided to break the laws of their country to obtain PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS (not illicit drugs, mind you) from our good neighbor to the north, Canada.
These individuals find it in their own FREE WILL personal best interest to do this, and you have the gall to support bush's policy to keep this ILLEGAL.
More pleasure for me when we beat this batard's bottom in a few short months.
Well since I've disgusted you, I will consider it a job well done.
You do realize your lack of skill with using any type of logical reasoning with regard to any issue, has rendered you nothing more than an amusing anecdote, don't you? Unfortunately you can not raise me to the level of felling disgust for you. The most I could feel is pity.
You've offered no solution to the problem, you just want to basically put the drug companies out of business.
Have you considered, if you do that, there won't be any drugs to be illegally got in Canada? At least they have the option of breaking the law. Follow your "plan" and there won't be any point to breaking the law.
No, madame, I do not want to put them out of business.
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSCENE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSCENE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:43 AM)
No, madame, I do not want to put them out of business.
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSENCE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSENCE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
No shame on the education system that let you out before educating you on the proper form of debate.
QUOTE (Cleo @ Aug 27 2004, 01:46 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:43 AM)
No, madame, I do not want to put them out of business.
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSENCE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSENCE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
No shame on the education system that let you out before educating you on the proper form of debate.
You don't fool me at all.
Since I have started reading your posts on this board, you pretend to make "logical" arguments, but then, mysteriously, your positions always mirror the interests of the bush regime and the profits of big industry.
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:50 AM)
QUOTE (Cleo @ Aug 27 2004, 01:46 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:43 AM)
No, madame, I do not want to put them out of business.
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSENCE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSENCE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
You right wingers believe in free trade and economic competition when it suits you. When it might benefit average and poor Americans, you want to make it ILLEGAL.
Shame on you!
No shame on the education system that let you out before educating you on the proper form of debate.
You don't fool me at all.
Since I have started reading your posts on this board, you pretend to make "logical" arguments, but then, mysteriously, your positions always mirror the interests of the bush regime and the profits of big industry.
Perhaps its because big industry and the Bush "regime" are logical, just like me.
Not so mysterious. I'm a chemist, Thaiquila, I'm trained in analysis. I don't "pretend" to be logical, I am logical.
Thank you for giving me the oppurtunity to toot my own horn!
Oh and you might want to research a few of the fallacies you consistently make, I'd start with Argumentum ad nauseam if I were you.
Once you've finished that, I'll give you some more homework.....
Sellout.
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:43 AM)
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSCENE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
TQ, with you, but at the same time Americans subsidize a lot of the world in paying higher pharmaceutical prices. As a humanitarian, I would think you would like that.
Of course, look at their quarterly reports, and it is evident that they are by no means a charity either.
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:55 AM)
Sellout.
Could I possibly have rendered you almost speechless?! I'm better than I thought!
QUOTE (Kerry for Senator @ Aug 27 2004, 01:57 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:43 AM)
I want them to realize a reasonable profit, not an OBSCENE profit at the expense of the health and legal health of the American people.
TQ, with you, but at the same time Americans subsidize a lot of the world in paying higher pharmaceutical prices. As a humanitarian, I would think you would like that.
Of course, look at their quarterly reports, and it is evident that they are by no means a charity either.
Sorry, NO!
I am for AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST!
Universal health care for all Americans.
Deport all illegal aliens and provide programs to make a certain number of them legal if they are needed to help the American economy.
Only emergency room care for illegal aliens.
Then, DEPORT THEM.
Then, and only then, think about building clinics and hospitals in Iraq.
QUOTE (Cleo @ Aug 27 2004, 01:58 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:55 AM)
Sellout.
Could I possibly have rendered you almost speechless?! I'm better than I thought! Hardly, Madame Sellout.
Wasting my energy on someone who honestly buys the drug industry propoganda is a waste of time.
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 02:01 AM)
QUOTE (Cleo @ Aug 27 2004, 01:58 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:55 AM)
Sellout.
Could I possibly have rendered you almost speechless?! I'm better than I thought! Hardly, Madame Sellout.
Wasting my energy on someone who honestly buys the drug industry propoganda is a waste of time.
If you'd worked in the drug reasearch and development industry first hand, like I did, you would understand it is not propoganda.... wait knowing its you, you probably still wouldn't get it. Sorry forgot who I was talking to for a minute.
exitus
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:59 AM)
Sorry, NO!
I am for AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST!
Universal health care for all Americans.
Deport all illegal aliens and provide programs to make a certain number of them legal if they are needed to help the American economy.
Only emergency room care for illegal aliens.
Then, DEPORT THEM.
Then, and only then, think about building clinics and hospitals in Iraq.
I am for AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST!
Universal health care for all Americans.
Deport all illegal aliens and provide programs to make a certain number of them legal if they are needed to help the American economy.
Only emergency room care for illegal aliens.
Then, DEPORT THEM.
Then, and only then, think about building clinics and hospitals in Iraq.
WOW.
You never cease to amaze me, but this time takes the cake.
A sovereign nation. Hmmm.
PS- JOHN L read at your own risk. Ol' timer.
Like I said, SELLOUT.
In many ways by working in the industry you are more BRAINWASHED than anyone else. That is natural, so do not fret.
In many ways by working in the industry you are more BRAINWASHED than anyone else. That is natural, so do not fret.
QUOTE (Kerry for Senator @ Aug 27 2004, 02:15 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Aug 27 2004, 01:59 AM)
Sorry, NO!
I am for AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST!
Universal health care for all Americans.
Deport all illegal aliens and provide programs to make a certain number of them legal if they are needed to help the American economy.
Only emergency room care for illegal aliens.
Then, DEPORT THEM.
Then, and only then, think about building clinics and hospitals in Iraq.
I am for AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST!
Universal health care for all Americans.
Deport all illegal aliens and provide programs to make a certain number of them legal if they are needed to help the American economy.
Only emergency room care for illegal aliens.
Then, DEPORT THEM.
Then, and only then, think about building clinics and hospitals in Iraq.
WOW.
You never cease to amaze me, but this time takes the cake.
A sovereign nation. Hmmm.
PS- JOHN L read at your own risk. Ol' timer.
Oh, and one more thing.
If Gideon, that Limey bottomed weenie should visit our shores on holiday or whatever, you know, to pontificate at the Reagan museum, should he get ill, by all means
NO CARE WHATSOEVER FOR HIM, or at the very least let him have a look at the hospital bill, which as he would be charged FOUR TIMES the rate of the uninsured, would be for a few days equal to his lifetime income in Britain.
Then, and only then, will he kiss the sweet feet of the Queen of England and thank his lucky stars that he is fortunate enough to live in a CIVILIZED NATION.
Its spelled whelp Thai and that really wasn't nice 
QUOTE (Cleo @ Aug 27 2004, 02:59 AM)
Its spelled whelp Thai and that really wasn't nice
Not nice, huh?
Am I the one who is opposed to taking care of our OWN citizens?
Now you care about the sensitivities of our misguided tory friend and his health bills in the US? So you want we should pay his bills but not take care of our own citizens. You one crazy bey itch!!
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