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Thaiquila
and the blood is on our war criminal president:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=860

Invaded a country that was not a direct threat to the US.
Occupying a sovereign nation.

Is that what Americans want to be known around the world for?
The US under bush has LOST ALL MORAL AUTHORITY.
Boon Mee
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 7 2004, 05:51 PM)
and the blood is on our war criminal president:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=860

Invaded a country that was not a direct threat to the US.
Occupying a sovereign nation.

Is that what Americans want to be known around the world for?
The US under bush has LOST ALL MORAL AUTHORITY.

More Americans died on the Highways this Labor Day weekend than the total of deaths in Iraq.

What's the price of FREEDOM? dry.gif
Thaiquila
So the Iraqis replace their home grown despot with an American puppet despot, and that's if they are lucky?
So you think we should be the POLICEMEN of the world, or is it really about the OIL????
Boon Mee
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 7 2004, 06:00 PM)
So the Iraqis replace their home grown despot with an American puppet despot, and that's if they are lucky?
So you think we should be the POLICEMEN of the world, or is it really about the OIL????

Naw...we're just the cowboy with the White hat riding in to save the town.
Oil might have something to do with it but as soon as Dubya gets re-elected and opens the ANWAR to drilling we'll be in good shape.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Boon Mee @ Sep 8 2004, 12:05 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 7 2004, 06:00 PM)
So the Iraqis replace their home grown despot with an American puppet despot, and that's if they are lucky?
So you think we should be the POLICEMEN of the world, or is it really about the OIL????

Naw...we're just the cowboy with the White hat riding in to save the town.
Oil might have something to do with it but as soon as Dubya gets re-elected and opens the ANWAR to drilling we'll be in good shape.

You live in a fantasy land.
The Iraqi people DID NOT INVITE US.
There were no flag waving crowds.
Boon Mee
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 7 2004, 06:06 PM)
QUOTE (Boon Mee @ Sep 8 2004, 12:05 AM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 7 2004, 06:00 PM)
So the Iraqis replace their home grown despot with an American puppet despot, and that's if they are lucky?
So you think we should be the POLICEMEN of the world, or is it really about the OIL????

Naw...we're just the cowboy with the White hat riding in to save the town.
Oil might have something to do with it but as soon as Dubya gets re-elected and opens the ANWAR to drilling we'll be in good shape.

You live in a fantasy land.
The Iraqi people DID NOT INVITE US.
There were no flag waving crowds.

Afraid to say that you're the one living in a Disneyland/6 Flags/Knotts Berry Farm - World there, TQ. To say the Iraqui people didn't invite us is totally preposterous. No more rape rooms, no more plastic-human shredding machines and, and no more WMD's! That's right! They were there just before we went in - common knowledge...but y'all on the extreme left refuse to acknowledge the truth.
...been over this argument a million times... dry.gif
politiphile
American Death Toll In Iraq Reaches 1000, They Died in Vain: quote Thaiqila

If they died in vain Thai, it's because they died for the likes of you. People who by your political views, support the very enemy who is killing our people.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (politiphile @ Sep 8 2004, 12:42 AM)
American Death Toll In Iraq Reaches 1000, They Died in Vain: quote Thaiqila

If they died in vain Thai, it's because they died for the likes of you. People who by your political views, support the very enemy who is killing our people.

I want my American soldiers if they must die, to die in defense of AMERICA.
I do not approve of the US being military aggressors and adventurers.
They died in VAIN simply because the US did not HAVE TO BE THERE.

911 Al Queda --- Iraq

NO CONNECTION!
gideon2000uk
If we fail in our mission to bring an acceptable government to Iraq the 1000 deaths will have been in vain.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (gideon2000uk @ Sep 8 2004, 01:37 AM)
If we fail in our mission to bring an acceptable government to Iraq the 1000 deaths will have been in vain.

Interesting.
Acceptable meaning a FREE DEMOCRACY?
So what happens when they vote in an IRAN STYLE THEOCRACY which is a highly probable outcome.
Progress?
Would you like to die for that?
Bunch of chickenhawks, all of you!
Boon Mee
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 7 2004, 07:39 PM)
QUOTE (gideon2000uk @ Sep 8 2004, 01:37 AM)
If we fail in our mission to bring an acceptable government to Iraq the 1000 deaths will have been in vain.

Interesting.
Acceptable meaning a FREE DEMOCRACY?
So what happens when they vote in an IRAN STYLE THEOCRACY which is a highly probable outcome.
Progress?
Would you like to die for that?
Bunch of chickenhawks, all of you!

There you go again throwing that word "chickenhawk" around. Pray tell, TQ, what have YOU done for your country lately? unsure.gif
Eric
It would be a great thing to see an acceptable form of government rule in Iraq someday.

But it doesn't matter if the outlook is grim or joyous, the men and women who died for our country died fighting for a greater ideal, noble ambitions of peace.

I would sacrifice myself for that anyday, and Thai, it sickens me how you can even dare to describe these deaths as vain.

You don't have to go help someone who is being beat on in a dark alley, you don't have to interfere with a hold up, but it sure as ###### is the right thing to do. You do NOT just turn your head and be ignorant.

Don't spread your rantings of the "save your own skin" philosiphy here. It's real becoming.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Eric @ Sep 8 2004, 01:48 AM)
It would be a great thing to see an acceptable form of government rule in Iraq someday.

But it doesn't matter if the outlook is grim or joyous, the men and women who died for our country died fighting for a greater ideal, noble ambitions of peace.

I would sacrifice myself for that anyday, and Thai, it sickens me how you can even dare to describe these deaths as vain.

You don't have to go help someone who is being beat on in a dark alley, you don't have to interfere with a hold up, but it sure as ###### is the right thing to do. You do NOT just turn your head and be ignorant.

Don't spread your rantings of the "save your own skin" philosiphy here. It's real becoming.

That is BULL and you know it!
Go over the history.
Review the LIES used by bush to sell the war on Iraq to the American people.

Providing freedom and a new government was not even ON THE LIST, until all the LIES used as justification were shown to be lies.

Talk about your revisionist history.

I said it once and I will say it again: these 1000 Americans died in vain and George W Bush is their MURDERER.
Eric
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 8 2004, 01:50 AM)
QUOTE (Eric @ Sep 8 2004, 01:48 AM)
It would be a great thing to see an acceptable form of government rule in Iraq someday.

But it doesn't matter if the outlook is grim or joyous, the men and women who died for our country died fighting for a greater ideal, noble ambitions of peace.

I would sacrifice myself for that anyday, and Thai, it sickens me how you can even dare to describe these deaths as vain.

You don't have to go help someone who is being beat on in a dark alley, you don't have to interfere with a hold up, but it sure as ###### is the right thing to do. You do NOT just turn your head and be ignorant.

Don't spread your rantings of the "save your own skin" philosiphy here. It's real becoming.

That is BULL and you know it!
Go over the history.
Review the LIES used by bush to sell the war on Iraq to the American people.

Providing freedom and a new government was not even ON THE LIST, until all the LIES used as justification were shown to be lies.

Talk about your revisionist history.

I said it once and I will say it again: these 1000 Americans died in vain and George W Bush is their MURDERER.

Ambition is ambition, and a noble one is yet still a great cause, wether realized early or late.
Thaiquila
Admit it.
If bush likes it, you love it.
You checked in your critical thinking hat a long time ago.
Eric
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 8 2004, 02:00 AM)
Admit it.
If bush likes it, you love it.
You checked in your critical thinking hat a long time ago.

Hey, i'm not exactly thrilled with Bush's immigration policy, among other things.

Don't try to paint me as a blind follower Thai.
gideon2000uk
Thai,

Sometimes it is neccesary to hold your beliefs up to scrutiny, and so I ask you: If in a couple of years Iraq is a stable, economically flourishing democracy in the Middle East will this endeavor have been worth it? and if not, why not?
Cleo
Nice of you to keep count, so who was 999? Or isn't that the magic number?
Excuse me while I go vomit over this ad misericordiam.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Cleo @ Sep 8 2004, 02:42 AM)
Nice of you to keep count, so who was 999? Or isn't that the magic number?
Excuse me while I go vomit over this ad misericordiam.

Vomiting is indeed a proper response to this waste of lives. The number 1000 is just a number. Humans seek patterns and find meaning in large numbers with 0's in them, so maybe you lack that human trait. Wouldn't surprise me. My SYMPATHIES.
Eric
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 8 2004, 03:33 AM)
QUOTE (Cleo @ Sep 8 2004, 02:42 AM)
Nice of you to keep count, so who was 999? Or isn't that the magic number?
Excuse me while I go vomit over this ad misericordiam.

Vomiting is indeed a proper response to this waste of lives. The number 1000 is just a number. Humans seek patterns and find meaning in large numbers with 0's in them, so maybe you lack that human trait. Wouldn't surprise me. My SYMPATHIES.

I think it is you thai who lacks the human trait of recognizing the fact that the 999th death or the 990th or the 900th death are just as signifigant as the 1000th.

You seem to have an obsession for the 1000 milestone. We all know how you think about these "wasted" lives" as you call them, we've all heard you say Bush is thier muderer before, you are just calling attention to that, and your inability to keep it from frothing over again and again.
Thaiquila
You misunderstand me. Each and every one of the THOUSAND are important. Sadly, this is only the beginning.
John L
QUOTE
You misunderstand me. Each and every one of the THOUSAND are important. Sadly, this is only the beginning.-Thaiquila

Again, I ask you, when are you going to mount your campaign against the evil wheel, or perhaps the automobile, since either one is responsible for the deaths of thousands of death each year. And isn't the loss of life in ANY circumstance regrettable? And isn't a soldier a volunteer in the first place? And don't riders volunteerily get in vehicles daily?

The point is this. You are outraged because you have a viseral hatred aimed at GWB, but find it hard to direct that hatred at the wheel, since you use it every day in one form or another.
aykfc
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Sep 7 2004, 11:51 PM)
and the blood is on our war criminal president:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=860

Invaded a country that was not a direct threat to the US.
Occupying a sovereign nation.

Is that what Americans want to be known around the world for?
The US under bush has LOST ALL MORAL AUTHORITY.

Is it just me or do you seem happy?
John L
Here is what soldiers have to say about the count. US Soldiers In Iraq Say that 1,000 Death Toll Meaningless

QUOTE
"It sucks. The newspapers glorify it. Everyday, reporting the numbers going up and up, trying to push a point," said Captain Gregory Wingard, 39, at the 1st Infantry Division's Camp Warhorse near Baquba, north of Baghdad.

"Sad as it is for those 1,000 families and their friends, they're nothing to the number of Iraqis that get killed trying to defend their own families," he added, smoking a cigar with friends under the stars.

"There's one word you have to push back at them. Gettsburg: 63,000 killed in a single day," said Sergeant Kimberly Snow, 35, from Ohio, refering to the US civil war battle.

The conversation turns to a comrade, a Muslim US soldier who was killed in June when a suicide bomber blew up a car outside the north gate of the base.

"I'm nervous, sure, because you don't know. When I lay down on my rack for the first 10 minutes I'm listening for mortars," said Wingard.

The bombs make him "I want to get that ######."

US patrols are considered combat missions and soldiers have to be prepared to the worst every time they roll out of their bases.

"There's always a fear in the back of your head, but you can't let it take over," said Snow, speaking about the soldiers' biggest scourge -- the improvised explosive device, known as IEDs to the army, or a roadside bomb to civilians.

"The scary thing is its not like facing a normal enemy and you've got a good chance of fighting back. You're just tooling down the road and boom there's an explosion," said National Guard Major Tony Quinn, from North Carolina.

"If 1,000 died today, that'd be pretty significant, but its just another number," said 36-year-old Quinn, who is based along the Iran-Iraqi border.

"Every single soldier knows the risk. You do the best you can with your day and don't think about it. If I was to get killed tomorrow by an IED, I would not regret coming over here," said Captain Michael Adams, 37, from Oregon.

"Six months ago people were afraid of their own shadow. Now I've seen kids playing in the park, farmers are out working. Now they can have a chance at rebuilding their country," he added.

"Obviously when you loose people, its a tragic time. But you don't loose morale. It strengthens your resolve," said Specialist Robert Bybee, 21, deployed in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit.

But for several young soldiers, barely old enough to graduate from college or have a beer in a US bar, the horror of war and the separation from loved ones is wearing thin.

"I'm scared even to take a shower in case they mortar us. I want to go home and be with my wife and start a family," said Specialist Luis Cruz, 21, from Puerto Rico, also based near Baquba.

 

But none of the soldiers accept any similarities with Vietnam, where tens of thousands of soldiers were killed before the United States finally withdrew.

"Once in a while people make comparisons, but I don't think the majority of soldiers feel there are any similarities," said Quinn.

"We are winning the hearts and minds... It's nothing like Vietnam. We're still missing 60,000, 52,000 were killed. We've had 1,000 soldiers die, how can you make a comparison?" said Wingard.

Sorry for the length.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (John L @ Sep 8 2004, 01:05 PM)
QUOTE
You misunderstand me. Each and every one of the THOUSAND are important. Sadly, this is only the beginning.-Thaiquila

Again, I ask you, when are you going to mount your campaign against the evil wheel, or perhaps the automobile, since either one is responsible for the deaths of thousands of death each year. And isn't the loss of life in ANY circumstance regrettable? And isn't a soldier a volunteer in the first place? And don't riders volunteerily get in vehicles daily?

The point is this. You are outraged because you have a viseral hatred aimed at GWB, but find it hard to direct that hatred at the wheel, since you use it every day in one form or another.

That is very convulated logic, John.
These volunteer soldiers, and their families, TRUST their president to send them to justified, moral wars, wars worth risking their lives for.
bush violated their trust, and for this, he will surely burn in ######, if there is a ######.
Roadster
If there is no h3ll one should be created just for burning George W. Bush.
Boon Mee
Right...& I suppose Hurricaine Charley and Francis plus Ivan now are George Bush's fault. Y'all are blinded by some strange affliction beyond description.
Anyhow, let's take a look at the list below and chill-out w/respect to the deaths in Iraq:

Putting Our Losses In Iraq Into Perspective

Sadly, we've finally passed a 1000 deaths in Iraq. That's certainly tragic, especially for the families and friends of the soldiers who were killed. There is no such thing as "light casualties" to someone who loses a father, a brother, or child in a battle in a foreign land.

That being said, if we send our military into combat, we must accept that there may be losses. Unfortunately, that just goes with the territory. And when we look at past conflicts, wars, even certain battles, the number of men we've lost in Iraq is small indeed. Here are few statistics just to show you what I mean...

1002: Soldiers killed in Iraq
100-1500: My own pre-war estimate of how many troops we'd lose just taking Iraq
2403: Americans killed at Pearl Harbor
2976: Americans lost on 9/11
9,386: American soldiers killed taking Normandy
12,500: American soldiers killed taking Okinawa in WW2
24,000: American soldiers on both sides killed at the battle of Antietam during the Civil War
54,246: American troops killed in Korea
58,198: American soldiers killed in Vietnam
116,516: American soldiers killed in World War 1
133,811: Confederate troops killed in the Civil War
364,511: Union Soldiers killed during the Civil War.

Courtsey of RWN
Eric
QUOTE (Roadster @ Sep 8 2004, 06:19 PM)
If there is no h3ll one should be created just for burning George W. Bush.

I don't think i've seen a post with less to do with the debate at hand. Not to mention the incredible hate with no backing.


I suggest you all take a closer look at JohnLs post and link about what the actual soldiers have to say.
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