It is not looking so good for Thaksin.
Do you think he will allow there to be free elections that would result in his defeat?

Oh my

I know a good way to start.
I would make sure if I was Thaksin that my military officials did their best not to "accidentally" murder young Islamic men prisoners.
That kind of thing tends to make tensions much worse, don't you agree, Sir Sarcasm?

Are you one of those people who thinks just because someone is in power that they do not have to be accountable to their people?

For

I am talking about Thailand only.
Of course, there is a history.
However, I think there is strong evidence that Thaksin has not performed well in dealing with the conflict between the Bhuddist majority and Muslim minority.
I personally don't like Thaksin anyway, largely because he has clearly steered the young Thai democracy in the wrong direction, AWAY from freedom and democracy.
I would like to see Thailand wake up and become a real democracy.
So, given that there will soon be Thai elections, and given that Thaksin is in political trouble, over the violence and other financial scandals, my question holds.
Will the ever so powerful Thaksin allow free elections that may end his power.

Two articles:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1B0...CCFABF6BCCF.htm
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...uthern_violence

This today:

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra this evening prepared to stand up to criticism of his conduct over the death of 85 Muslim protestors on Monday, scheduling an emergency television appearance to explain the situation.

But the prime minister, who has been blasted at home and abroad for the incident, in which 78 died in military custody and a further seven died during Monday’s disturbance outside Tak Bai police station, began the afternoon with what critics immediately pounced on as a cynical public relations exercise – the donation of over Bt8 million to mosques in the southern border region.

Mr. Thaksin however hotly denied the claims that the donation of Bt8.23 million to 1,646 mosques had anything to do with the Tak Bai affair, claiming that he had been planning the donation for some time.

He also dismissed claims that the Tak Bai incident was an attack on the Muslim religion, responding heatedly to a number of foreign journalists who have likened the deaths of the detainees to ‘ethnic cleansing’.

“We need to show our sorrow to the families who have lost their loved ones. But the government must insist that this incident has nothing to do with religion. It’s a matter of civil regulations…we are currently investigating it, and expect the investigation to be completed soon. We will accept the findings. The government is serious and is concerned with all the people”, he said.

Thailand’s most prominent Muslim politician, Agriculture Minister Wan Muhamad Noor Matha, was quick to rush to the prime minister’s defence today, saying that the government had never intended to act with such force.

At the same time, Islamic leaders shrugged off rumours that they had called for a change of government. Mr. Waeduemae Mamingji, a member of the Islamic committee for the three southern border provinces, called on the government and Mr. Thaksin to take responsibility for the Tak Bai incident.

Asked whether the violence would escalate, he said that it was now up to the government to ensure that the correct assistance and cooperation was given.

“The government, officials and leaders must ensure understanding and take responsibility. There must be thoroughness in this. We don’t want any repeat incidents”, he said, pledging the support of the Islamic committees in helping bring about understanding among the public.

He also denied reports that members of the Islamic committees were preparing a petition to oust the government.

This evening Mr. Thaksin will appear on television to explain the Tak Bai incident. His appearance, after tonight’s Royal News, will not be live, but will be of a pre-recorded tape made this afternoon.

The prime minister’s move was welcomed this afternoon by Defence Minister Samphan Boonyanant, who expressed confidence that Mr. Thaksin’s television appearance would lead to greater understanding among the public.

When asked about calls from senators for the commander of the 4th Regional Army Division to accept responsibility for the incident, he said no responsibility could be apportioned until the results of the investigation had come through.

He admitted the possibility that some of the protestors involved might have been Indonesian or Malaysian, but said that no confirmation could be given until further investigations had been conducted into the 22 as yet unclaimed corpses.

However, he insisted that the protest was certainly organized rather than spontaneous, and that one of the aims was the formation of a separate Muslim state.

Gen. Samphan also confirmed intelligence reports suggesting that protests were planned for Bangkok, but stressed that these were ‘unlikely’.

--TNA 2004-10-29

For sure, unrest will continue in the South of Thailand. Resistance groups are getting more and more organized, it is not so easy for the Thai government to control provinces bordering Malaysia with over 80 percent Muslim population of totally about 3 million people.

The present Thai government is doing very little to find a solution to that ethnic problems, except sending more and more troops into that region.

The world is connected by data-lines, and despite internet-censorship and press-censorship in Thailand, such incidents are showing up quickly on WWW pages of various Islamic organisations. This present Thai government will have to face critics from everywhere, if they like it or not.

Visitors, who are not really into Thailand, but just general tourists, who like to visit various countries, might indeed consider to choose a different destination.


copy from the PULO webpage, 30th Oct. 2004
Tak Bai Tragedy 25 Oct 2004
Bodies killed by gun found on the ground: 6 persons
Killed in the evening during the transportation to the military camp in Pattani: 78 persons
Died in the hospital: 1 person
Bodies found in the river 29 oct 2004: 18 persons
Under Thai military custody: 1,298 persons
Injured: 730 persons
Missing: 255 persons
Thrown into the river after surrender
and killed: ca 35 persons

WARNING
Persons who plan to visit Thailand,

Due to the political instability in Thailand, the provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Satun, Songkhla, Phuket, Pangnga, Krabi and Bangkok are not safety places for you to visit. Please avoid to travel to the above-mentioned provinces or avoid to travel to Thailand for your own safety. We advice you to cancel your trip to Thailand if you do not want to take risks.

If you are in the above mentioned provinces, we advice you to avoid policestations, music conserts, cafés, bars, nightclubs, railway stations and airports.

After the massacre in Tak Bai, Narathiwat, Thai policemen and military officers are the main and only targets of the people attacks. Please double check that you are not standing or sitting near them nor visiting their offices. Leave the suspected places immediately.

Hat Yai Railway Station has been bombed at least 3 times before. If you are planning to travel to Malaysia from Bangkok, be wise and do not use the route. The city of Hat Yai is the most dangerous place in Thailand.

Be informed that the coming operations are targetting for Thai policemen and soldiers only. The operations will be performed by Patani liberation movements that are not under our control. Therefore, we are not responsible for the damages or lost after this warning.

P. P. PULO

Unfortunately, I cannot access the Pulo website in Thailand.
Is the quote a mere 'informative' warning? Or designed to simultaneously create fear and not take responsibility for acts of terrorism to come?
Note the advice to stay away from concerts and cafes, while claiming targets are policemen and soldiers only. Sounds like they informed themselves on definitions of terrorism and try to look respectable?
Anyone have a more informed assessment of Pulo to share?

I found this:
The PULO is a popular organization formed to represent the Malay people of the southern predominantly Malay provinces formerly known as the Malay kingdom of Patani, fighting against Thai colonialism. It considers Thai constitution illegitimate in the area and its members are not under Thai jurisdiction. Therefore, if Thai justice system practices such inhumane activity, then PULO reserves the right to react accordingly.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/pulo.htm

Stroll,

I think, to understand more about this Southern part of Thailand it is useful to read a little bit about the history of this region first, and how it is seen by the British/Malay side.

A good link in English, not too long by text with some nice illustrations is for example

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/kedah.htm
http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/kedah1.htm
http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/kedah2.htm
http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/kedah4.htm

and especially

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/kedah3.htm

The rise and fall of the Malay kingdom of Patani
The end of Langkasuka

Interestin

Did they not die fighting? Are they not in paradise? Then rejoice! They are at the right hand of Allah, with 70 virgins allocated to each of them for endless pleasure throughout all eternity!

Are you in the george w bush diplomatic corps?
They were not fighting when they died.
They were prisoners in a hot vehicle.
Do you have any shame?

I will go even further.
Morally, you are NO BETTER than the Islamic terrorists who caried out 911.
To them, the Americans on the planes and in the buildings were NOT HUMAN BEINGS.
To you, in your mockery, you reveal that the dead young Islamic men killed were not NOT HUMAN in your mind.
How are you better or more civilized? DIS GUST ING.

No, they died as a result of gross negligence.
The fact that they didn't fight, but merely protested, indicates that they were moderates and didn't subscribe to your suggestions.
Perhaps you'll need to teach the Southern Thais what to do to go to paradise, they are a bit slow in understanding that suicide attacks on civilian targets in the US are the way to go.
Why don't you demand they take responsibility for the 3000 deaths of 9/11 (they are Muslims after all) to point them in the right direction?

I'd say historically it is a coincidence, but in the present state of affairs, one must be careful not to let the conflict in Southern Thailand be 'hi-jacked' by agitators with a wider agenda on either side.

Some sharp words from the Bangkok Post about Prime Minister Thaksin and the massacre:

The following are substantial exerpts an editorial from the Bangkok Post today, which provides an insight into the Tak Bai massacre:

"What if the Tak Bai protest had occurred in Bangkok and it was our children who were beaten black and blue before being suffocated and crushed to death in crammed trucks?
Do you think you would allow Thaksin Shinawatra to explain away your sons' death as just a 'regrettable accident'? If not, then we will have to probe deep into our hearts as to why we are letting Mr Thaksin and his government get away with the Tak Bai massacre.

Is what we are dealing with an evil government? Or is it the evil in our hearts that allows us to accept Mr Thaksin's justification of gross dehumanisation and violence which we would never allow in the matter of our own children? Mr Thaksin's lack of repent is worrying. But of more concern is the public endorsement of his hardline policy towards the southern Muslims and his ultra-nationalistic pretext in whitewashing state crime.

Talk to taxi drivers or check the web-board postings on the Tak Bai crackdown and you will understand why Mr Thaksin does not feel he has to apologise to the southern Muslims nor resign to show responsibility. Why would he when he knows that, given our society's deep prejudice against the Malay Muslims, he can easily turn the victims of his policy follies into the enemies of national sovereignty? Besides, creating an enemy of the state is always a good political gambit when a general election draws near.

The support for Mr Thaksin's crackdown raises the question of whether ours is truly the tolerant Buddhist society we like the world to believe. Buddhism is not only about non-violence. It is also about the need to see through all forms of illusion of the ''self'' that condition our thoughts and spur our prejudices, constantly pitting ''us'' against ''them''.

An extension of self as a group identity based on race, religion, language, ethnicity or country may give us a reassuring sense of belonging. But it is also a breeding ground of divisiveness, violence and war. Hence the Buddhist emphasis that all are one and the same in the cycles of suffering, that though most of us are still mired in greed, anger and illusion, we all possess a similar potential to attain spiritual liberation....

Yet, many of us decry human dignity and endorse state violence against rural folk protesting mega-projects as the enemies of economic development. And the Malay Muslims for being a threat to national sovereignty. This shows that our religion is not really Buddhism, but ultra-nationalism and materialism...

What causes our ethnic prejudice is glaringly evident: the fallacy that our society is racially homogenous; the ultra-nationalism that treats non-ethnic Thais as outsiders and as a threat to national security ...In short, it is not only the government to blame, but also ourselves for endorsing this oppressive system.

To heal the open wounds in the South, we have no choice but to confront our prejudices. If not, we will have to learn the Buddhist teachings on inter-connectedness the hard way _ that if there is no peace in the South, there will be no peace in our homes."

Sanitsuda Ekachai,Assistant Editor, Bangkok