You could...call it a revival I suppose.

When Pan-Arab Nationalism fell through, and the Islamic Revolution happened in Iran, Islamism sort of just took over as the cause that united the Arab people.

In reality what is going on currently, is more of an Islamic Reformation than Revival.

It looks nothing like the Christian Reformation did, but that is what it is.

Yes a reformation. Definitely an evolution. I suppose the big question is the degree of militancy. I'm not sure how to quantify that. Certainly many muslims feel they are under attack by outside forces. I guess the onus is on the outside forces to prove them wrong.

"REFORMATION"???!!! They are Islamic FUNDAMENTALISTS. Adhering to the FUNDAMENTALS of Islam. Strict adherence to the text of the Koran and Haddiths.  Couldnt be further from the truth.      MARK

"REFORMATION"???!!! They are Islamic FUNDAMENTALISTS. Adhering to the FUNDAMENTALS of Islam. Strict adherence to the text of the Koran and Haddiths.  Couldnt be further from the truth.      MARK

I wasn't talking about the Wahabbiists, I was talking about the Middle East/Islam as a whole.

You seem to have trouble talking about two subjects at one time. Is this true? If so, how can I make what I say easier for you to understand?

Oh and on a second note. The reformation I was referring to would entail the fall, not the rise, of Islamism.

Yes I know but it's hard to make a distinction between a temporary revival and a reformation. As Ben suggests it could just be growing pains. You sound a little fired up yourself if I may say so.

This  "particular incarnation" of "Islamism" is simply NOT a reformation by any stretch of the imagination or definition of the word. They are traditionalists, conservatives adhering to the ancient text. Quite literally the opposite of a reformation.        MARK

By The Associated Press
Sun May 1, 7:34 PM ET

As of Sunday, May 1, 2005, at least 1,580 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the    Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. At least 1,199 died as a result of hostile action, according to the Defense Department. The figures include four military civilians.

The AP count is six higher than the Defense Department's tally, last updated at 11 a.m. EDT Friday.

The British military has reported 86 deaths; Italy, 21; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 17; Spain, 11; Bulgaria, eight; Slovakia, three; Estonia, Thailand and the Netherlands, two each; and Denmark,    El Salvador, Hungary, Kazakhstan and Latvia one death each.

Since May 1, 2003, when    President Bush declared that major combat operations in Iraq had ended, 1,442 U.S. military members have died, according to AP's count. That includes at least 1,090 deaths resulting from hostile action, according to the military's numbers.

Sun May 1, 7:28 PM ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Here is a breakdown of the four-day death toll since    Iraq named its new government April 28. At least 105 Iraqis and 11 U.S. soldiers have been killed.


Thursday: 5 Iraqis, 5 U.S. soldiers killed

Friday: 47 Iraqis, 5 U.S. soldiers killed

Saturday: 17 Iraqis, 1 U.S. soldier killed

Sunday: 36 Iraqis killed

Total: At least 116 killed

By The Associated Press
Sun May 1, 6:42 PM ET

Developments in    Iraq on Sunday:

A suicide car bomb exploded at the funeral of Kurdish official in the northern Iraqi city of Tal Afar, killing about 25 people and wounding more than 50.

_ Iraqi militants kidnapped an Australian man living in Alamo, Calif. The video obtained by Associated Press Television News, showed a man identifying himself as Douglas Wood, 63, with two militants pointing automatic weapons at him. He appealed for coalition forces to withdraw.

_ Australian Prime Minister John Howard said he will not negotiate with terrorists who reportedly kidnapped an Australian man in Iraq. Howard told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio, "We can't have the foreign policy of this country dictated by terrorists."

_ U.S. and Iraqi forces detained several suspects in the abduction of Margaret Hassan, the director of CARE International in Iraq, who was believed slain last year.

_ Italy's government says its report on the slaying of Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari by U.S. troops underscores problems with coordination among authorities in Iraq and with rules of engagement for checkpoints. Calipari had just won the release of an Italian hostage, journalist Giuliana Sgrena, before he was shot dead on March 4.

_ At least six other car bombs — one of them a suicide attack — and five roadside explosions hit Baghdad on Sunday, killing six Iraqis, wounding more than 20 civilians, six Iraqi police officers and five U.S. soldiers.

_ Insurgents in eastern Baghdad jumped out of a pickup truck near a checkpoint and fired machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades. Other insurgents appeared from behind nearby trees and joined the attack. Five policemen were killed and one was wounded.

_ Elsewhere in Baghdad, insurgents in three parked cars opened fire with handguns on a police patrol in the western Jihad neighborhood, wounding four policemen.

Insurgents in    Iraq have kidnapped more than 200 foreigners ...

As of Tuesday, May 17, 2005, at least 1,622 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the     Iraq war in March 2003 ...

Over the last two weeks, almost 400 people have been killed in Iraq. Experts are left struggling to explain the escalation of violence.

...

What is striking, more than two years after the war which toppled Saddam Hussein, is how little the Americans appear to know about their enemy.

There are thought to be dozens of insurgent groups, with differing agendas. They sometimes act autonomously, sometimes in loose co-operation.

The stark truth may be that no one can know for sure whether there is a pattern to the insurgency, or why the violence ebbs and flows.

In a country where things often turn out to be different from the way they at first seem, the retrieval of around 60 corpses from the Tigris River near al-Suwayra, south of Baghdad, is one of the murkiest and most complex stories to hit the headlines in recent months....

A Iraqi politician says eight of his bodyguards have been killed during a gun battle with insurgents and helicopter-backed US forces.

The politician, Fawaz al-Jarba, told the BBC seven of his men died at the hands of the US troops.

Mr Jarba, a Sunni Muslim member of Iraq's National Assembly, said insurgents had started firing at his house and that his guards fired back. The clashes then came to the attention of US forces.

"The firing was coming from all directions and the Apaches (US helicopters) were bombing," Mr Jarba said. "The terrorists were firing at me. Why did the Americans start doing this too?"

The US military statement said an investigation had been launched into the incident....

[strange indeed, huh? the guy is Sunni muslim which are backed up by US, and more than that - a member of Natioanl Assembly - also supported by US. why to fire at  him ? 
surely - to make Iraq a safer place ! 

ha! my point exactly !

why indeed ?

perhaps coz US makes it safe ? 

thanks for stating the obvious though  - that it is not safe ! 

U.S. commanders say the Taliban is a viable resistance force in    Afghanistan even three years after the Islamic radicals fell, but the U.S. military's fight to undermine their influence and bring stability is showing signs of progress

KABUL, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Saturday he was shocked by a U.S. Army report on abuse of detainees in     Afghanistan, saying his government wanted custody of all Afghan prisoners and control over U.S. military operations.

The abuse described in the report, including details of the deaths of two inmates at an Afghan detention center, happened in 2002 and emerged from a nearly 2,000-page file of U.S. Army investigators, The New York Times reported on Friday.

"It has shocked me thoroughly and we condemn it," Karzai said at a news conference. "We want the U.S. government to take very, very strong action, to take away people like that."

Karzai, a staunch ally in the U.S.-led war against terrorism, was due to leave on a U.S trip on Saturday and meet     President Bush for talks.......

How do you go about making it safe when the Insurgency can simply drive a car into a Shopping Bazaar and blow it up?

And all they can do is murder people. They are in there final death throes. The Nazis did the same type of thing at the end of WW2.

P.S. seems like they make "safe" Afgan as well :

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050521/ap_on_re_as/us_afghanistan_outlook

Well,  the topic *is*  "US making Iraq a safer place"  and all..... 
Haven;t the been saying that in Spain,  say,  for the last few decades?  Couldn't you say the same thing about Hezbollah?  How long has al Quieda been around? 

Please - what evidence do you have that the Iraqi Insurgency will fizzle out and die?  last I checked,  there were still problems is Isreal - ever since Isreal got created.  What makes you think that there isn't a large grop of people that view the US and Isreal similarly?  What makes you think that there won't be attacks as long as the US is there? 

Just curious.

Well,  the topic *is*  "US making Iraq a safer place"  and all..... 
Haven;t the been saying that in Spain,  say,  for the last few decades?  Couldn't you say the same thing about Hezbollah?  How long has al Quieda been around? 
.....
What makes you think that there isn't a large grop of people that view the US and Isreal similarly?  What makes you think that there won't be attacks as long as the US is there? 

Just curious.

At least 21 part-time soldiers and Marines have died in May, although the number may be higher since the Pentagon has not yet identified most of the 14 U.S. troops who have died since Sunday.

The 21 deaths account for a little over one-third of the total of 58 U.S. troops who have died so far this month. That is about in line with the ratio of Guard and Reserve troops to regular active-duty troops deployed in Iraq — now about 40 percent Guard/Reserve and 60 percent regular troops.

In the last two days, the military announced that 14 American troops have been killed since Sunday. Those reports came as insurgents carried out a string of explosions, suicide attacks and drive-by shootings around the country that also killed 49 Iraqis.

At least 620 people, including 58 U.S. troops, have been killed since April 28, when Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari announced his new Shiite-dominated government

The deaths come at a time when American troops are trying to hand more responsibility to Iraq's fledgling security forces, part of the U.S. strategy to eventually leave Iraq.

perhaps there is kind of reluctance (or even planned actions against) "to hand more responsibility to Iraq's trrops" and "to eventually leave Iraq" , huh ?

Because there was a strong case both for and against WMDs. I personally did not believe they would be found, but I am tired of stupid Hippies going "BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED!" There is very little evidence to suggest Bush deliberately lied.

I feel sorry for you and all the other pro-war advocates on this forum.