http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...42539_2005apr10
This is an interesting article from the Washington Post. There are a few natable lines in it....



Again, for me, more evidence that Bush is lying to the public while his real goals "true vision", are, indeed neoconservative. These goals are outlined at http://www.newamericancentury.org ...

I for one am glad that we are sending an anti-UN ambassador to the UN. I'm tired of the US playing games with the UN. They use our military to enforce policy (in the RARE occasion they back up their blathering), but then they love anti-US policy like the Kyoto Treaty.

On top of this, the organization is hugely corrupt. Peacekeepers raping women and little girls? No we need no part in that. The broadest graft scheme ever devised (Oil-For-Food) doesn't help either.

I believe it was you expat that quoted the passage about judging a tree by its fruit. I like that passage, and feel it applies here too.

What do you call an organization who starves a country of 25 million (Iraq: 1990-2003) from essential medicine that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children?... then proceed to attack these poor people with "shock and awe", set up concentration camp like prisons of torture, kill, rape women and children to "liberate them"... only to pull Saddamy (that they installed in the 60's against the Kassam regime), out of a hole and keep him alive in a prison cell??...leave behind depleted uranium via discharged weapons to create generations of deformed, sick children and cancer ridden populations????

Who would do such a thing???

USA is beyond "corrupt", they are criminal sadist terrorists, who export terror, who support terrorists (israel), who by the way, were the only barbaric animals in the history of mankind to ever drop nukes on a civilian population (Japan)!

I didn't realize that the Kyoto Treaty was "Anti-US policy" I thought it was just policy that Bush doesn't agree with, which makes the US almost unique in the world.



I'm afraid we are already part of a similar scandal with the prison abuse. Aside from that, how about Vietnam? I'm not so sure we are not in a glass house here.

War is hell. You can call 'em Peacekeepers or Liberators or Insurgents or Minutemen or whatever you want, but there are goipng to be some nasty, immoral things happening, de facto. Its war. Its not pretty.

Corrupt? How about the medicare boondoggle? forbidding the government from getting bulk discounts, and warning citizens against going to Canada for cheaper perscription drugs? While claiming to be trying to help people afford drugs? I think corrupt is a nice word for that.

What about all the double/triple subcontracting by Halliburton et al in Iraq? They get paid to hire US workers with danger pay, to build a sturdy school with air conditioners in each room. They subcontract out to cheap local labor, skimp on the construction and put a much cheaper ceiling fan in each room. They keep the rest.



Now, I'm not saying you can't say anything about anyone else, but at least recognize similar faults. Unless, somehow, those are completely different...

how about

I WOULD CALL IT THE UNITED NATIONS

I WOULD, AS WELL,CALL IT A DISPICABLE, REPHENSIBLE AND HYPOCRICAL GROUP OF DEVIANTS.

MADE UP BY PROVEN SLEZY, CORRUPT UN OIL FOR FOOD PROGRAM WITH IT’ S SELF SERVING COLLABORATOR'S FROM FRANCE, GERMANY, CHINA AND RUSSIA, WHO COHORDED OIL, MEANT TO FEED AND CARE FOR IRAQI'S WHILE DELIBERATELY BLAMING THE US, FOR WHAT THEY AND SADAMM WHERE KNOWINGLY DOING, TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE ALL ALONG.


What day would you lay odds that Bolton starts at the UN?

After listen to you lot. I do agree with one thing he said” if you collapsed the first 19 floors of the UN building, NO ONE WOULD EVEN NOTICE WHAT WAS NOT BEING DONE.

I also heard a lot of “WHAT ABOUT”

I got one for you all,.

what about toilet paper!

Is there NOT a certain corruptibility and evil in it, in a conspiracy, taking over the world, kind of way, with it alway seeking to lap up the intellectual challenges of conspiracist existence as exampled heretofore and forthwith per se?

That is all!

So now you are a conspiracy theorist, USAtrader?

Absolutly fascinating.

What about my previous post about the US corruption?

Completely ignored.

Talking about knowingly doing to the Iraqi people, Rumsfeld here is seen shaking hands with

Knowingly helping Saddam? What about the US selling arms to him? We gave him the weapons he used to gas the Kurds that we blame him for. No, he's not a good guy, but get a grip with reality, UStrader.

How about what the US is currently knowlingly doing to people? This artilce has a picture of GWB shaking hands with someone he knows boils people alive. Not only that, but the US is giving a lot of aid to the Uzbeks, including money earmarked for their police.

for more information, go here

Where is your rightous indignation over this?

Oh wait - nevermind. Might makes Right. The US is mighty, therefore right, just and good. Can't argue with that! Carry on, UStrader. You logic is without reproach!

Why is the US bothering with the UN ? we should kick the US out of the UN and be done with it. The lunatics will get what they want and the rest of the world could go on with their life instead of managing that crying baby of Bush. Unfortunately, Bush admin is too coward to leave the UN because they know too well that they will loose more by leaving it than staying on it and paying their big fees

It took you that long to nail that troll ? shhh

The ravings of someone who doesn't know or use the most basic logic, common sense or English grammar.

What about the big "train wreck" you keep predicting for the Bear-Pit on every web-site Butterfly, including this one? I thought that you were "through with it".
Everything looks peachy to me.

Get a load a this...



Those "Code-Pink" jerks are the best thing though to get Bolton in...

When you stop whinning which is not about to happen anytime soon

I will stop posting when I am banned or the board melt down, whichever comes first

Grammar ? you didn't even finish high school and you and Boon Me are perfect examples of trailer trash republicans who vote with their testosterones instead of their brain

I hope you will not be the coward that you seem to be online when Uncle Sam needs you for his war on Oil

Like the UN, Mr. Butterfly, you give to us nothing more than mere empty Promises and again yet more unfulfilled beatific Promises at that!




Again thank you kindly.

But in all modesty you do me an injustice with this vacuous effort of deviousness to bête-noir my self esteem for which nary a scratch has transfixed itself by the attempt and effort.



Well surely with this many naysayer types, what say ye?



Hmmm! Your answer comes in three parts, my inquisitive but idiom deficient friend.

One, The day you can prove that corruption is uniquely and exclusive an US issue in this world and it is not innate to x% of a any certain number humans, no matter where they are from, or their race, religion and or ethnicity you will have your Answer.

Two, the day you can prove, that once corruption id uncovered, that there is any other place on earth that has a rule of law that is enforced that exacts punishment on corruption any better that the United States your will have your answer.

Three, the day you cease and desist from obsessing, not questioning, what is wrong in this world and or the USA and seek out what is right and make that better, you will have your answer.



Let’s see how do we answer this inanity?

The enemy of my enemy of my Friend

Like the below photo represented at the time, Germany and German’s then, saw unapologetically the USA as their true and devoted Friend as, on the other side of this gate, they saw their enemy and biggest threat the enemy of their friend the United States.



Like the below photo represents today. Things have now changed. Not withstanding 60 years of loyal commitment of friendship by the USA, Germany and German’s today see and describe the USA as their enemy and biggest threat and see those former enemies, as new friends and potential allies against their new enemy the USA.



As these bedfellow switch beds when the storms have passed. Why would you neophytes expect less of the US.

Where as circumstances and interest change. A friend yesterday now is an enemy and an enemy yesterday is now a friend.

Why do some countries get to change allegiances like a Castro street hooker yet, it is somehow, unscrupulous for the USA to act as all nations have, do and will?

Ladies these are the realities of international relationship for the last 3000 years.

The saving grace for America. Is that people unlike you lot here that question this, with the intellect and aptitude to lead a nation, no matter their political affiliation, have, Thank God, lacked your naivety, survival comprehension and most importantly, this affliction of never delineating between realism and fantasy, which is self evident, in merely quizzing as to why these practicalities of reality happen.

Things change and S h I t Happens those that fail to adjust die. Those that do adjust, live another day, to do it all over again next time things change.


That is all!

There is a very good reason for it - and it has nothing to do with conservative values. The neocons know that the UN will eventually become a check for US power.


This translates : "sticks and stones...."

In any case, UStrader, I am trying to prod you into discussing the logic behind your beliefs.

re: corruption .... You are using my argument to argue against your argument, my friend. Yes, the US has corruption, everything does. if you want to grandstand the UN because of the Oil for Food program, then (1) you are a little late - it was on CNN said it was going to be a boondoggle before the thing started and (2) your in a glass house. corruptiopn is everywhere.

And what about corruption being uncovered? How is Tom DeLay doing these days, anyways? What about the technically treasonous act of outing Valieire Plame? What? GWB's independent investigation only subpeanad 2 reporters? Who won't show up? What did the US do when they founbd out that Halliburton was knowingly overcharging the US for oil in Iraq? that paid them the extra $69 million that Halliburton illegally charged, but fined them 1 million for it. And then awarded them more contracts, which were similarly rife with corruption. Like the food contracts.

So the US is the gold standard for anti-corruption?

But in any case, why does corruption matter? If might makes right, and corruption adds might, then it is just and good. Especially if you are already powerful. Right?



Re: our friendship with Uzbekistan. Sure - the enemy of my enemy. But again, I am making the point that you are standing on a glass house.

Furthermore, the neocons overlooked this logic with its goal on Iraq - Assuming that fighting terrorism was their gaol (as they said it was). Iraq has long been seen as a bulwark against muslim fundmentalism. al Qaeda long considered itself an enemy of the Hussein regime. al Qaeda is an organization based on religious fundamentalism, the strictest and most inflexible interpretation of Islam, while Iraq is a secular regime with a history of waging war against Islamic fundamentalist regimes, namely Iran.

They sound like enemies to me. Colin Powell actually used the phrase bulwark against Islamic Fundamentalism himself in early 2001.




In any case, this is how your logic breaks down....

(1) The UN is EVIL for these specific unscrupulous acts!

(2) Why attack the US for these specific unscupulous acts? Everyone is doing them!

You see the hypocrisy now?


In any case, Yes, there are a lot of unscrupulous acts going on. And, yes, they are all unscrupulous, despite the volume. But why are you getting hot and bothered over a couple of comparitively mild ones?
(Personlly, I think the Iran-Contra affair was pretty unscrupulous- as a example.)

This is so far from what the crux of your squirminess efforts here.

You seek me to defend what I see no reason to defend.

I gave you my answers to your inquires. you ignore them what more is there to say.

I have been around long enough to know that people like yourself Mr. expat, those who seek out life’s imperfection and the worst in all human endeavors, usually find them, and replenish their psyche by obsessively dwelling upon them as a mother wart hog would relentlessly defend her young.

It is this compulsory psychosis to seek out the worst in others. Especially those that you lot would see as not having the self mesmeric standing and view of life as you would see in this self precipitation of right and wrong, good and bad, powerful and weak and poor and rich that is this descendant like thirst for the holly grail of never being satisfied with any of human frailties and imperfections that is so pervasive among your sandbox mates here.

Particularly if these persons, nations and percepections are not your own and those who would act, believe, behalf and defend as you would see as are life’s perfections that run far from the well from which you or any of us humans drink.

I know but a few simple things in all you lot see wrong in this world, in America and Americans. If it is ill corrected ,it will be corrected. If it is wrong, it will shall be righted and shown as being such.

Likewise if it is right it will prevail in it righteousness. if it is fraudulent and corrupt, justice will find it’s way to its doorstep. If it is evil, it will not be able to stand in the light of day and it is responsibility and duty of ALL who see it as such to ensure that it will not prevail. If it is good, it is equally the responsibility and duty of all to ensure that it does prevail as well.

This is the nature of the Taoist inspired balance or equilibrium of life. Where when events and circumstances be they of human and natural discourse or otherwise. Shall, as is the natire of all things in the unviverse, find balance by man or otherwise, when the Ying has weighted more of its influence than the Yang and or visa versa. As in all of life’s events, circumstances and happenings, always acting to ensure things are brought back to the middle, where nature, man and otherwise have the greats opportunity of meeting fate and destinies desires on all that is or will ever be.


The world is not dialectical -- it is sworn to extremes, not to equilibrium, sworn to radical antagonism, not to reconciliation or synthesis. This is also the principle of evil." -Jean Baudrillard

By three methods we may learn wisdom: first, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest” –Confucius

Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall –Confucius

No matter where you go - there you are–Confucius

The superior man acts before he speaks, and afterwards speaks according to his action." –Confucius

"I do not want a friend who smiles when I smile, who weeps when I weep; for my shadow in the pool can do better than that." Confucius



Sir, I see hypocrisy in all things.

I see it in the morning, as do you, and all humans, when we look in the mirror for the first time of the day.

I see it in the past. I see it in the present. I see it in the future, where we are but mere dust particles of hypocrisy, who have, once again, returned to our mother earth



That is all!

EXACTLY MY POINT!

You completely misunderstand the nature of discussion. You assume everyone thinks exactly the way that you do, and that your conclusions are naturally exactly what every person reach.

This, my friend, is not the case, I'm afraid.

You contradict your own last statement. You do not answer because you see no need to.



So it is your faith, then, that rightousness will win in the end, and, if it doesn't win, then it is not rightous, by definition?