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John L
Here is something that is certain to have Thaiquila in a state of conflict. The big question will be whether to continue with denial, or perhaps start thinking about a REAL solution.
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What Ails GM


By George F. Will
Post
Sunday, May 1, 2005; B07


Who knew? Speculation about which welfare state will be the first to buckle under the strain of the pension and medical costs of aging populations usually focuses on European nations with declining birthrates and aging populations. Who knew the first to buckle would be General Motors, with Ford not far behind?

GM is a car and truck company -- for the 74th consecutive year, the world's largest -- and has revenue greater than Arizona's gross state product. But GM's stock price is down 45 percent from a year ago; its market capitalization is smaller than Harley-Davidson's. This is partly because GM is a welfare state.

In 2003 GM's pension fund needed an infusion from the largest corporate debt offering in history. And the cost of providing health coverage for 1.1 million GM workers, retirees and dependents is estimated to be $5.6 billion this year. Their coverage is enviable -- at most, small co-payments for visits to doctors and for pharmaceuticals but no deductibles or monthly premiums.

GM says health expenditures -- $1,525 per car produced; there is more health care than steel in a GM vehicle's price tag -- are one of the main reasons it lost $1.1 billion in the first quarter of 2005. Ford's profits fell 38 percent, and although Ford had forecast 2005 profits of $1.4 billion to $1.7 billion, it now probably will have a year's loss of $100 million to $200 million. All this while Toyota's sales are up 23 percent this year and Americans are buying cars and light trucks at a rate that would produce 2005 sales almost equal to the record of 17.4 million in 2000.

In 1962 half the cars sold in America were made by GM. Now its market share is roughly 25 percent. In 1999 the Big Three -- GM, Ford, Chrysler -- had a 71 percent market share. Their share is now 58 percent and falling. Twenty-three percent of those working for auto companies in North America now work for companies other than the Big Three, up from 14.6 percent just five years ago.

The Big Three have cut 130,394 North American hourly and salaried workers since 2000, while the "transplants" -- foreign automakers with American assembly plants -- have added 27,183. In the first quarter of 2005 the Big Three operated 64 assembly plants, down from 70 in five years, during which time the transplants' factories have increased from 19 to 23, with more coming.

GM says its health care burdens, negotiated with the United Auto Workers, put it at a $5 billion dis-

advantage against Toyota in the United States, because Japan's government, not Japanese employers, provides almost all health care in Japan. This reasoning could produce a push by much of corporate America for

the federal government to assume more health care costs. This would be done in the name of "leveling the playing field" to produce competitive "fairness."

But remember: Employer-provided health insurance is employee compensation. It became important during World War II, when there were wage controls and a shortage of workers. Because wages could not be bid up, companies competed for workers by offering the untaxed benefit of health care. If GM's $5.6 billion were given not as untaxed workers' compensation in the form of health care but as taxable cash compensation of equal after-tax value, it would cost GM substantially more than $5.6 billion. Which means that soon -- GM's UAW contract is up in 2007 -- GM's workers may have to give back a value of at least $1,500 a year.

However, GM will have to recognize that health care costs are not a comprehensive alibi for its woes. Its array of brands is too large and anachronistic: Will American buyers ever again regard Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick and Cadillac as ascending rungs on a status ladder?

GM can still develop splendid cars: Today's Cadillacs may be the best American cars ever built. But every dollar GM spends on health care cannot be spent on developing cars -- hybrids, for example -- more enticing to buyers than some new offerings such as the Pontiac G6 and Buick LaCrosse.

Health care for retirees and their families -- there are 2.6 of them for every active worker -- is 69 percent of GM's health costs. GM says it has $19.8 billion in cash, and normal mortality rates will reduce the ratio of retirees to active workers. Meanwhile, Rick Wagoner, GM's chief executive, can only muse, "It's strange. When I joined GM 28 years ago, I did it because I love cars and trucks. I had no idea I'd wind up working as a health care administrator."
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What we are dealing with here is the perverbial canary in the "pension fund" coal mine. If GM and Ford are the tip of the iceberg, then just imagine what is about to happen to the rest of the country should we continue to do nothing about the Social Security and it's looming crisis ahead. In fact that AND health care are in for some serious trouble; unless the State promotes competition and private enterprise.

TQ, are you reading this? blink.gif
Thaiquila
Why would you think the GM issue would create any conflict for me?
GM and NO PRIVATE COMPANY should be in the business of providing health insurance for Americans.
We need a SINGLE PAYER national program, with access for ALL Americans.
To keep costs down, we must seriously reduce malpractice liabilities, and force the drug companies to charge Canadian prices.
GM would not have this problem if Hillary Clinton had been able to sell her health plan.

Social security, a crisis quite far in the future.
Health care lack of access and absurd high costs: CRISIS RIGHT NOW!
John L
So you are stating that instead of allowing a corperation to stumble and fall to over bloated collectivist practice, let's simply get the government to do it for all of us? This sounds like spreading misery around to everyone, don't you think? wink.gif
dkward2
Oh my. What's the best way to fix our healthcare problems? That's right! Slap a huge, inefficient government bureaucracy on top of it!

My particular favorite:
QUOTE
force the drug companies to charge Canadian prices.
Hahaha
Thaiquila
QUOTE (dkward2 @ May 2 2005, 05:49 PM)
Oh my.  What's the best way to fix our healthcare problems?  That's right! Slap a huge, inefficient government bureaucracy on top of it!

My particular favorite:
Hahaha
*

Why is that so funny?
Are you making fun of Canada?
The vast majority of Canadians are happy with their health care system and would not ever choose the American system.
John L
QUOTE ("TQ")
Why is that so funny?
Are you making fun of Canada?
The vast majority of Canadians are happy with their health care system and would not ever choose the American system.


But TQ, they still have not been handed the final bill yet! And in truth, they are not getting good health care. Of course, if it is the thought that is most important, then you may be on to something there. blink.gif

Wait until TQ sees my latest thread, about the "evil" Christian Right. huh.gif ohmy.gif
Thaiquila
Uh huh. The 45 million Americans without health insurance are getting great healthcare.
We do agree on one thing: healthcare does have to paid for.
The trouble in the US is that it is the most expensive system in the world and most of the money is going to insurance and drug companies.
Something's gotta give!
dkward2
My humor has nothing to do with Canada, yet everything to do with your idea of "forcing" companies to charge certain prices.

I pose an honest question to you: Who delivers the majority of new-drug development in the world? I don't know for sure, but my bet is on USA. I may be wrong.

What could help the problem? Relax the FDA’s screening process and change copy right laws. Are you aware that it takes around 15-18 years to develop and test a new drug to go onto the market? This costs millions of dollars. Also, as soon as a pharmaceutical discovers a possible cure to anything, they must immediately file for copy right protection. Then the clock starts ticking on their 20-year copy right.

At the end of those 20 years, generics come in and charge comparatively nothing. How do they afford it? They aren't developing any new drugs. Usually, the "evil" pharmaceutical has only 3-5 years to turn a profit on any new drug.

If you reduce the number hoops these companies have to jump through, while maintaining a reasonable level of safety, you will see a much-needed price reduction.
John L
TQ is not interested in fact, as he keeps spouting the imagionary 45 million figure, even when the left has already admitted that the numbers are overinflated.

Knowledge, truth, and logic, are not important, if you can throw your emotion into the mix. That trumps everything else.

Actually TQ is a closet Free Market Individualist. He is purposefully trying to convert the masses by using reverse pshchology. haven't you figured this out yet?
dkward2
Hahaha. I have heard you postulate the same before. However, I was always hesitant to believe.

However, after events today, your siren's song is starting to persuade me. All I know is that I'm glad he isn't on my side.
OsManli
The problem is that USA is spending billions on military that eclipses what Hitler spent on his (in relative terms). USA is spending 10x more then it's closest "enemy" (China or Russia I guess, El-Kida doesn't count)

Canada has florished with government health care, many automakers are investing in Canada for this reason.

The criminals Johnny L supports line the pockets of the zionists, oilmen and arms makers (as well as their side kick "reconstruction and private security companies")


The right wing lunatics don't care about the less fortunate. They are intolerant, extremist, with the compassion of satan!
John L
QUOTE ("Osmanli")
The criminals Johnny L supports line the pockets of the zionists, oilmen and arms makers (as well as their side kick "reconstruction and private security companies")


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Ben-T
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ May 2 2005, 10:53 AM)
Why is that so funny?
Are you making fun of Canada?
The vast majority of Canadians are happy with their health care system and would not ever choose the American system.
*


ThaiQuilla, count all the times that price controls have worked well in the United States.

Then come back.
dkward2
QUOTE
Canada has flourished with government health care, many automakers are investing in Canada for this reason.
Canadian Healthcare, The Great Liberal Hoax

Wrong, as I have posted before, Canada's taxes are on the decline. This is admirable, as they are now lower than the US. That would be why automakers would invest.
Canadian Tax Foundation's Comparison of US and Canadian tax rates
Ben-T
According to recent polls, if an election was held today, those mean old Conservatives would be in charge up in the great white north. I gotta dig up the poll, I'll post it in a bit.
dkward2
Now I'm put in a position I detest: I must defend the socialist Canadians. However, I do not believe in polls. I don't think any government/president should constantly put their finger in the air to see which way the political winds are blowing (read: Bill Clinton). That is not a leader. That is a follower wrongly put in a leadership position.

While I do not agree with many socialist tendencies of the leadership in Canada, I also won't jump to conclusions based on poll numbers.

and uh, just so i feel better: DOWN WITH SOCIALISM! tongue.gif
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