Will all of this create a problem if the rest of the International support leaves as well?

LINK Edited

And who's gonna protect Japan from North Korea? There not gonna pull out.

Just my two Euro's

There but 550 Japanese who only do only humanitarian missions and none of which have even fired a shot or been injured in Iraq.

I think it is remarkable that so many nations have had the courage to stay with us this long.

A friend who helps you should not be expected to help you for the rest of your life.

If countries decide it is in there best interest to leave we should thank them for the long lasting support and wish them god speed and a safe journey home.

Even the most hawkish of us would prefer to see us beginning to leave or at leasts cut back once we have the job done, which hopefully will begin to show early next year.

That is all!

Pretty soon really I believe you will be seeing a report like the one below.

After kissing their babies and hugging their wives, Thousands of US soldiers in combat fatigues lined up at a base last weekend under the Stars and Stripes for what has become a familiar ritual — the send-off for troops on their way to Iraq.

But this batch of soldiers may be among the last.

Because no one went there to own Iraq. Everyone who went there wants to leave as soon as possible.

Hmmm....'as soon as possible' is a handy little phrase to tack on the end of statements like that. Are you a lawyer? If they are still there 10 years from now we can blame the insurgents.

Hopefully being the key word. But I do hope that you're right.

Please someone remind me, but what does this "coalition" consist of these days; 95% American, 4% UK, and who are the remaining 1%?

Sorry I'm being overly facetious but you get my point.

Maybe that we (USA) are the coalition? Its almost like saying: "me, myself, and I."

Allow the Japanese to pull out if they feel like it. The US is schedualed to being it's own major pullout next year.

Allow, Japan is a sovereign nation, they're entitled to do as they please, so there's no allow in it.

I did not mean "Yes Japan you are allowed to leave."

I mean allow as in "Who cares?"

I would not seek to violate the sovereignty of Japan, a worthy ally with a substantial and effective military. Two characteristics not currently represented in The Fifth Republic.

In spite of your saying you are being tongue in cheek about the subject.

Your point is not and clearly imples, we, the United Stated have done this esssentially alone.

I hope our British and other European lads who have given lives in Iraq can hear that loud and clear when the EU vote comes out.

Nevertheless, in full respect to our allies who have sacrificed in blood and effort to join us, as TRUE FRIENDS, I could not more disrepctively disagree as to their sacrifice and contributions in Iraq.

We and they did do it didn't we!

Before the war in Afghanistan and Iraq started you lot and your experts said we could should not be allowed to to this but that did not deter us.

You lot and even your military experts said even if we did try, we would not be capable of doing it alone with the forces we had and or have including our True Friends, but we did it, did we not?

You lot, as well, today say we have failed or will fail when It's far from being over or decided.

You were wrong before like as well as in the election of Bush, so what standard of creditibilty are we to except from you lot, the best of three or five. Well your 0 for 2 now.

But given the pretense of being French, I understand, fighting is not the Frenchman's game and quitting before the match is decided is a prefered outcome.

So what is the point in this commentary that is implied in disrepect to your own European brothers, if you are indeed European at all, any way?

I can not think of a more courage lot than that 4% British and the rest of that lot you so easily discredit as to their contributions to freeing the Iraqi people.

Even the Japanese in their stricly Humanitarian roles have contributed significant to an effort, you seem to see as unworthy, from this high pedistial of safety and uninvolvemnt that you would, in facetious pretense, so easly discredit and dismiss as to the risks and sacrifices of these brave allies.

It is a shameful self centered idealism that woud think that even the slighest of efforts to do some good, by but even a few, is unworthy of honor and respect by those like yourself who would do nothing at all.

Facetious Yours,


That is all!

We 95%(USA) sure did! Oh, yeah! That 4% UK and 1%(others) too!

I wonder if you counted the fatalities with the 95%(USA), and compared it with the other 5%(others), which totals would be larger?

I did apologise in the post for taking a serious matter flippantly. But the point was to highlight that the term 'coalition' is little more than a fig leaf, the presence of troops other than those from the US is of very little importance. The US can, and generally does, do what it wants. I apologise further if I caused any undue offence.

To give a more accurate picture, as of March 2005 there where a total of 26 nations with troops in Iraq, including the US. Of the approximate force of 174,000 the US comprises 86%, the UK 5%, South Korea 2%, Poland 2%, Others 5%.

Forces In Iraq

US...........................150,000
UK.............................8,761
South Korea...............3,600
Italy..........................3,085
Poland.......................1,700
Ukraine......................1,450
Georgia.......................898
Romania......................730
Japan..........................550
Denmark.....................496
Bulgaria.......................450
El Salvador..................380
Australia......................400
Netherlands...............200-800(?)
Mongolia.....................180
Azerbaijan..................151
Latvia.........................122
Czech Republic............110
Lithuania.....................120
Slovakia.....................105
Albania........................71
Estonia........................55
Armenia......................46
Macedonia...................33
Kazakhstan..................29
Norway........................10

TOTAL:................173,732 - 174,532

(source: http://www.globalsecurity.org )

Regarding causalities, as of May 13th a total of 1,802 coalition troops have died in Iraq, 90% of these have been American, 5% from the UK and 5% other nationalities. Additionally some 6190 US troops have been wounded. (source: http://icasualties.org/oif/ )

No one seems to be counting the number of Iraqi casualties, the best I could find was between 21 and 24 thousand.

(source: http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ )

I don't see Saudi, Syrian et al in there either. If you could break down how many of the Iraqi deaths, if corrrect to start with, were non combatant civilians ie shoppers and worshippers (not hide and seekers) at mosques, and how many of them were killed by the other unmentioned foreign groups.

I can't for the life of me figure how some people don't suspect that these foreigners have corrupt intentions for the people of Iraq and their emmense wealth.

Sorry, but the list of countries are those participating in the American coalition, I don't think Saudi Arabia and Syria are part of the US lead coalition!

The figures are for civilian casualties, I didn't find a count of Iraqi military dead, I believe the line from General Tommy Franks was "We don't do body counts."

You can look at the database that records these deaths http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/ it gives details in the format of:
Incident Code, Date, Time, Location, Target, Weapons, Reported Minimum Dead, Reported Maximum Dead, Sources
It records all deaths, both by coalition forces and by insurgents, it's there for you to interpret as you wish.

Thanks. It seems that you have answered my previous question.

Of course it is a fig leaf. How many nations on Earth have a military comparable to that of the USA? 0 is the answer.

I love our country, but I do believe that China would be quite dangerous.

Doh!
But the OP was Japan pulling out how many may follow.
The answer is who gives a f**k.

Re "How many nations on Earth... blah de blah de blah"
History teaches us that Empires come and go.

How many may have pulled when Italy pulled? Or Spain? What does it matter. Every other nation in the Coalition MIGHT FOLLOW. But we currently have no evidence that they will.

To Grizzly: It depends. The US most likely could not succesfully invade China. China however does not nearly have the air power or the mobilization ability to pose a threat to the United States anywhere but in China. The People's Liberation Army-Air Force would quickly be dismantled in any US-China war. After that the war would simply consist of the US military using it's combined air and elite ground (read: US Marines and Army Rangers) forces to dissect that poorly trained, AK-47 armed People's Liberation Army.

China relies on hordes of infantry to win it's battles. The future of warfare however, lies in the sky.

reminds me of agent Smith in Matrix !

The future is now and we own the skies.

I don't know, Ben.

Read the following articles:

Washington Times

Conservative USA.org

Be one heck of a war -- thats for sure!

Looks like it is getting tougher out there!

Your and the others commentary and point as to fatalities is what?

I remember another anal retentive in the past that was as well psychos obsessed about counting bodies, his name was McNamara, I await his demise so I can piss on his grave like the President of his era and of course that hero of heroes Jane Hanoi Fonda.

If your guys are so inclined to be that anal about body counts and so ego centric about only western fatalities, may I suggest that you will get your rocks off by a taking a trip of bodies agora, in Iraq.

First at the graves only attributed in your glorious summations on fatalities, to that man of the hour, that liberal bastion of the alternative, that Euro Friend and bud of Franco-German idealities, Saddam.

When done counting that 400,000 decaded bodies off Saddam legacy. If your sexual fantasy is still unfulfilled. May I suggest you start counting the fresh graves in Iraq that in your western egotism, you have so discredited has having no value or worth of mention. Despite the 35 year bill in Iraqi blood and death at the hands of those you would have, remain in charge of Iraq in their present and future as opposed to the alternative that exist now.


If you have not got off by them, may I suggest you go to Europe and start counting in the hundreds of Military Graveyards there. When done, go to Russia and start counting Stalin’s purges, after that to China and count the Red Guard Grave yards.

By then surely this lust for counting fatalities should satisfy your sexual fantasy as is so evident in this excellent redoubt of ego centric western fatality summations you all have so ilelegantly provided for us with such vigor and conviction.




It is so, if they acted and behave and had empires like that genome of your pretentious European Ancestry that even today anally desires the glories of Empires lost, it would be America's fate as well.

Unfortunately there is no similar Euro- self defacing blood thirst American Empire in intent, act or deed, as you would have us think that is remotely similar to those Lost Empires you so enviously and reverently wished still existed on the continent.

Never fear maybe soon, your FrancoGerman state will again bring from its birth child the EU once again that lust for blood and power and all will be as you would have us believe it will not.

I do denote you guys whine about how everything, no matter what it is, as long you disagree with it, IT IS WRONG.

You whine endlessly about elections, wars, economies and social issues always with a strong emphasis on how it is all either going to fail, is failing or will fail and or is wrong, corrupted and or deceitful as opposed to your way of thinking. Yet you are seldom right hmmm!.

Are your lives so removed from any vestiges of positivism that this negativism is the only perspective you can envision for this world, Vison of doom and gloom that you so endlessly prognosticated, yet rarely are fruitful as in predicting in outcome. Surely you must see something good that exists in this world. Then again maybe not!

I mean you guys have been so wrong so many times isn’t it starting to frighten you how often you are and how far from the main stream your way of thinking is?


RAZIN my Friend you are indeed lost in that fantasy of MATRIX.

I know this will hurt but, in truth, my friend, it, this thing matrix as you envision, does not exist. It is just the fantasy of someone mind like much I hear from you lot here.

I hope you can survive this veracity as I am sure it is difficult to accept given you state of mind.


That is all!

You're raving again Trader, forget to take your medication?
I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I understand what you are saying. I will try to be more concise about what I am implying. Ready?

There are 2 (at least) sides (combatant forces) to this. You only look to one side for justification. Why don't you look at the other side for justification and have them explain themselves? You also take j o u r nal is ts (spoken loosely ) words for granted. You take statistics for granted unless they don't say what you want them to say at which point they become some type of conspiracy supporting tripe (neither of which is correct). You really should try to connect the dots and continue trying until a coherant picture begins to emerge. This, as opposed to an image that would more closely resemble hallucinations from and acid trip. I am not trying to be sharp tongued here. I am trying to get you to think for yourself. You seem to have a very capable mind. The problem with your mind is that is an open mind. An open mind allows just about anyone to pour just about anything in.

Please spare me your condescension.
You would seem to be projecting your own preconceptions/misconceptions about who and what I am.

I see that I was not the only one thinking that!

That is truly unfortunate. Bone up on you're reading comprehension.

Given you have assumed to me a credible excuse of drug induced hyperbola, all be it self fallacious speak, for once again have I, Monsieur Le Tonk, have been Tazed by da trader.

I would ask you, as well, your excuse as to the hyperbola of obliviousness in this self expressed cluelessness herein, my good Sir Monsieur Le Tonk?




Da Grizz, a clairvoyant and idiolect savant combined.

I am indeed impressed.

Thanks,to you both, it is always good to get confirmation from more than one credible source as to ones idioms being sound and on firm ground.


That is all!

I am not trying to be condescending. I have no conception of who you are, only of what you say. Don't take it personal it is a discussion of what we conclude based on the information at hand. Neither of us, I would bet large sums of money, have the abilty to infallibly see the future. However seeing the present for what it is can help a great deal in determining our best course of action. One can assume the unknown based on percetages of possibility derived from action/response and be pretty accurate. That is of course assuming the other doesn't suspect that you think what they thought, otherwise, they will think what you thought before you can counter what they should be thinking. Please see signature.

I understand it. I don't usually read the long long posts like that but you guys incited me to see what was all the hubbub. Not on topic but it was a good response to the non contextual input to which it responds.

Goood popcorn

That was a good post I don't care what mr honky tonky thinks.