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Thaiquila
Every dog has its day, so how much longer has America got to be top dog?

Bent, you don't have to vote because we all know you don't think America is an empire and didn't you also say something about the earth being flat?
Vander
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jul 3 2005, 07:43 AM)
Every dog has its day, so how much longer has America got to be top dog?

Bent, you don't have to vote because we all know you don't think America is an empire and didn't you also say something about the earth being flat?
*


Bent didn't really say the earth was flat, did he?

Anyway, even I consider America to be a form of empire. After all, we have gained territory by either military conquest, or by buying it from other powers. If anyone doesn't think so, just take a look at Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, and parts of other states and then ask yourself, "Why all the Spanish names?" That's right class, all that used to be part of Mexico, and we won it in a war.

That doesn't even cover all the territory conquered from the native Americans, the Louisana Purchase, the Alaska purchase, etc.

However, I have no problem with us being an empire. That is the way of things in our world. We just happen to be one of the very few empires to have improved life for the majority of the people inside its borders.

And don't start lecturing me about all the bad things that happen in our country, or our big mistakes. All I will say to that is 023.gif

I know its true...and you are perfect...why?

We are still better than most, and WOW you don't want to believe it leftists, but our system has been successful while all your utopian wet dreams have FAILED!
Thaiquila
Vander, are you Gop 4 Life?
The style of writing and twisted thinking are quite similar?
Vander
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jul 3 2005, 08:48 AM)
Vander, are you Gop 4 Life?
The style of writing and twisted thinking are quite similar?
*


Hmm...twisted thinking...I think I like that!
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Vander @ Jul 3 2005, 05:56 AM)
Hmm...twisted thinking...I think I like that!
*

"I can neither confirm nor deny."
I think we all know what that means.
How curious that you feel you need a second identity here.
Vander
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jul 3 2005, 08:58 AM)
"I can neither confirm nor deny."
I think we all know what that means.
How curious that you feel you need a second identity here.
*


Oh, good grief TQ, you really are lacking in humor and good judgement. I was just baiting you!

I am not Gop 4 life. I am my own person, living in my own life in my own time. It's really funny that you might actually try to discredit me. Again, it is a typical liberal tactic to do everything possible to bring discredit to the opponent instead of engaging in issue debate.

Man, TQ, did you just get out of Liberal Discussions 101? What they teach you in that class only works with other liberals. When you engage with conservatives, you are dealing with the best minds in the western world. LD 101 just doesn't cut it, dude!
Fit2BThaied
Depends what we mean by 'the end.' When Jesus said, 'till the end of this age,' he may have been talking one or 25 years into the future. What did Jim Morrison mean by "This is the end, my friend!"?

The opening post does say "top dog." If it means the time period in which America will remain as the world's only super-penis, no more than 20 years (perhaps ten). As a superpower along with China, India, Japan, and the EU, 40 years. As a political entity still called the USA, 100 years or more. Unless the whole deck of cards fall much faster.

Time spans are now compressed tremendously in this virtual cyber-world. Who would have predicted the Soviet Union would disassemble itself (non-violently) in about one year? If we're borrowing phrases from Jesus, how about "in the flash of an eye"?
Thaiquila
OK, maybe you convinced me.
Gop isn't capable of stringing together that many coherent sentences.

You are really stretching with that best minds bit. You actually made me laugh.
Vander
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jul 3 2005, 09:14 AM)
OK, maybe you convinced me.
Gop isn't capable of stringing together that many coherent sentences.

You are really stretching with that best minds bit. You actually made me laugh.
*


smile.gif
Good, that is all I wanted!
ustrader
T HA T
IS
A LL!
Nomad
You better pray the American empire lasts a long, long time. The other empires that have come and gone and tried to be empires were not nearly as benovolent as the US. Never in the history of mankind has an empire accumulated so much power and used that power so less. BTW TQ, whats with all the poles recently? 037.gif 011.gif 033.gif
Thaiquila
Nomad, I agree that the US empire is more benevolent than other empires in history.
However, we do have to face the US empire in the grand scheme of things is just another empire in history.
The end of an empire is as inevitable as death and taxes, so the question is HOW LONG?
ustrader
T HA T
IS
A LL!
Fit2BThaied
QUOTE (Nomad @ Jul 2 2005, 11:23 PM)
You better pray the American empire lasts a long, long time. The other empires that have come and gone and tried to be empires were not nearly as benovolent as the US. Never in the history of mankind has an empire accumulated so much power and used that power so less. BTW TQ, whats with all the poles recently?  037.gif  011.gif  033.gif
*

First, we'd better pray that what we consider holy enough to pray for, comes true, rather than this Hellish excuse of a God-condemned Crusade.

We need to correct our verb tenses, folks. Was the American empire benevolent or violent in its founding? Violent. The 20th century might stand as the most nearly benevolent century, when the USA belatedly came to Europe's rescue and helped rebuild Europe (inefficiently). The 21st century actions of the Bush era bear no resemblance to the multi-lateral diplomacy that Bush 41 worked much of his life to support. We (our country) is once again on a violent rampage. That kind of empire does not deserve to survive as a superpower, and Bush's disregard of powerful countries will reap a whirlwind of violent response against the USA. That, actually, is what most of the insurgency in Iraq is about, and it's not much different from the Palestinians's insurgency against their occupiers.

You ask , 'what's with all the poles recently?" They're enjoying the brief summer of Warsaw, without their favorite Pope. smile.gif
ustrader



T HA T
IS
A LL!
Vander
QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Jul 3 2005, 09:52 AM)
The 20th century might stand as the most nearly benevolent century, when the USA belatedly came to Europe's rescue and helped rebuild Europe (inefficiently). 
*


Interesting, and once again a liberal makes my point for me. You see, when Europe was in trouble with Nazi conquests, they begged us to save them from THEIR quagmire after they had allowed Hitler to be coddled and even praised by thier own whiny little wine-sniffing elites. Even to this day we are accused of entering the war "late" or "belatedly" as Fit just said.

But now, when this time we move quickly and decisively to annihlate a threat, we are wrong for that, too. Plain and simple, even when we do things the way the rest of the world wanted us to in the past, it will never be good enough for them. When we wait, it's too slow, and when we move after THEY have waited for 12 YEARS (as in this case) we are too fast and too decisive.

In thier eyes, it's a crime to live by convictions and principles.

That is why I don't give a rat's a$$ what any of you Europeans, Asians, or Africans think of what we are doing now. You will always castigate us because you are no longer the rulers of the world. And I am especially upset at American liberals for pandering to snotty, wimpy French and German self-righteousness. It's their sorry butts we saved last time, and now we are protecting our own.
Fit2BThaied
I was being positive about the 20th century being the most benevolent century in American history.

ustrader, if we ever get better acquainted here, you'll notice that I'm not always negative, and you're not always positive.

I'm not anal about grammar; some of my previous comments to that effect were meant as self-denigrating.

In my recent post on this thread, the point about using a different verb tense was to clarify between:
a. The USA is a benevolent nation, or it has always been.
b. The USA used to be benevolent, but isn't presently.

ustrader, is it positive to make ad hominem attacks? I'm just asking politely, mind you. And how positive are you, calling me anal, always negative, 'mighty,' etc.?

You asked what I would have done at various times. Well, I'm an individual human being, responsible to my God for whatever conscious actions I take or don't take. I wouldn't have fought; I would have loved my enemies, as I'm commanded to do. wub.gif wub.gif

Just one more thing, about Palestinians celebrating on 9/11. How do you know that? Were you in Palestine on 9/11? I was in Chiapas, Mexico, but my team-mates in Hebron said there was no celebration at all, and that instead the Palestinians they talked to were filled with somber grief at the American deaths. I guess you had to be there to know.

Have a good day, ustrader. Love your enemies.

wub.gif wub.gif
ustrader



T HA T
IS
A LL!
adjan jb
[quote=Thaiquila,Jul 3 2005, 11:43 AM]
Every dog has its day, so how much longer has America got to be top dog?




As long as China is not ready to take over.
Nomad
Ahh yes, China the kind, benevolent superpower wanna be. You keep rooting for them aj. Keep rooting for the China that restricts internet access. The China that is the worlds worst environmental polluter. The China that is now gearing up to take Taiwan by force. The China that killed thousands of peaceful protesters at Tiananmen Square. Anybody but the US in charge is your simple emotional view of the world.

I pity your students, they deserve better then you. 035.gif 037.gif 033.gif
Taste o Truth
What are you talking about "rooting for"? He's just pointing out a reality. Yes, yes, all those things about China are bad... but are you denying their influence and military power as a geopolitical entity?

RE: Saddam and Arafat: Wow... two US Govt installed/assisted middle-east leaders working together? ohmy.gif
expat
Indeed. I posted 30-0 years because I thinks how long it will take China to "grow up" and be able to throw its weight around much more effectively. This is ignoring a possible financial catastrophe that tanks the dollar into worthlessness. I doubt that would happen.

He said absolutely nothing about rooting for China. Indeed, he said that the US was the most benevolent empire in history - which I happen to agree with too. The US, for all its failings, is a great place, and I root for America to succeed.

Of course, this doesn't mean being a yes-man. Quite the contrary.
QUOTE
To announce that there must be NO criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President Right or Wrong, is not only UNPATRIOTIC and SERVILE, but is morally TREASONABLE to the American Public." Theodore Roosevelt




China is a threat to the US's dominance. They have some 1.2 billion people, +/- the population of the US. Thats an atractive economy there. Its going to be hard for Chinas leaders to ###### that up. China is going to be economically very, very powerful - far more than it is today, and already you have the likes of Yahoo and Google and Rupert Murdoch changing their tunes to be a part of the great business opportunity that is China.

Seeing a threat is not the same as hoping it will happen. I see that a LOT of people will die of cancer and car wrecks this year. Its a morbid thread TQ opened.

IMHO, its not only unpatriotic, but stupid to merely ssume that the US is now and will forever be the best. Things change.
adjan jb
QUOTE (Nomad @ Jul 4 2005, 12:33 PM)
Ahh yes, China the kind, benevolent superpower wanna be. You keep rooting for them aj. Keep rooting for the China that restricts internet access. The China that is the worlds worst environmental polluter. The China that is now gearing up to take Taiwan by force. The China that killed thousands of peaceful protesters at Tiananmen Square. Anybody but the US in charge is your simple emotional view of the world.

I pity your students, they deserve better then you.  035.gif  037.gif  033.gif
*




Don't need to pity me. I've just answered the question "how much longer for the American empire ?".
Anywhere in my very short post, i've mentioned my feelings for China.
adjan jb
Nomad
I forgot to invite you to one of my courses : Reading Technics 101.
ustrader
T HA T
IS
A LL!
Nomad
QUOTE (adjan jb @ Jul 4 2005, 06:57 PM)
Nomad
I forgot to invite you to one of my courses : Reading Technics 101.
*


Don't need that Aj. I can read YOU quite well. Just another emotional, socialistic idealist that doesn't have clue one about the real world. But that's why you teach. You can't do.
001.gif 002.gif 007.gif
adjan jb
[quote=Nomad,Jul 5 2005, 11:26 AM]
Don't need that Aj. I can read YOU quite well. Just another emotional, socialistic idealist that doesn't have clue one about the real world. But that's why you teach. You can't do.



You are not on target. This thread is about the "American empire" not about me.
Thaiquilla asked us a question and i replied. I replied that, according to me, America will remain the only superpower as long as China has reached its full speed. It's just my point of view but it doesn't seem that nonsensical.
Nothing is my post allows to think that i'm emotional. Actually i'm not but reading your nasty reply, it seems to me that you are very emotional. I'm not a socialist either, just a plain libertarian (libre penseur in my own langage) who hates both right and left sides of the political spectrum and cherishes freedom
You also don't have a clue to assert that i don't have a clue about the real world. Anyway what is the so-called real world and is your contribution to it ?
Reading your post, i could conclude that you are mean, nasty, pretentious, contemptuous and not very good at perusing a one line post. Don't get too personnal otherwise you show too many of your flaws. Keep cool. Breathe
dixon76710
QUOTE (adjan jb @ Jul 4 2005, 06:50 PM)
Don't need to pity me. I've just answered the question "how much longer for the American empire ?".
Anywhere in my very short post, i've mentioned my feelings for China.
*


I might suggest Reading Technics 101. It is your students who recieve the pitty.

MARK
dixon76710
[quote=adjan jb,Jul 3 2005, 09:59 PM]
[quote=Thaiquila,Jul 3 2005, 11:43 AM]
Every dog has its day, so how much longer has America got to be top dog?
As long as China is not ready to take over.
*

[/quote]


China manages a GDP of about $517,000,000.
The US manages a GDP of about $11,735,000,000.
They have a ways to go. MARK
Bluecat
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jul 5 2005, 02:40 PM)
China manages a GDP of about $517,000,000.
The US manages a GDP of about $11,735,000,000.
They have a ways to go.      MARK
*


blink.gif
The US are only 200+ years old, a blip in the history of time.
And time has no meaning for Asian countries, especially China.
It will take 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, they do not care but I can assure you of one thing, the figures you like to post will be reverse...
Monsieur Le Tonk
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jul 5 2005, 10:40 PM)
China manages a GDP of about $517,000,000.
The US manages a GDP of about $11,735,000,000.
They have a ways to go.      MARK
*

I believe your figures are out of date.

US GDP in 2004 was 11,667,515 million USD
China's GDP for 2004 was 1,649,329 million USD

(Source: World Bank )

China quadrupled its GDP in the 20 years from 1980 to 2000.
China expects to do at least the same again by 2020.
dixon76710
My mistake. So in 20 years they will be half the size of the American economy with three times the # of people. Whats your point? MARK


QUOTE (Monsieur Le Tonk @ Jul 5 2005, 08:14 AM)
I believe your figures are out of date.

US GDP in 2004 was 11,667,515 million USD
China's GDP for 2004 was 1,649,329 million USD

(Source: World Bank )

China quadrupled its GDP in the 20 years from 1980 to 2000.
China expects to do at least  the same again  by 2020.
*
expat
Japan did something similar, did it not?

Now imagine a Japan with 1.2 billion people, +/- the population of the US. China has a LOT more room to grow than Japan ever did.
Monsieur Le Tonk
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jul 5 2005, 11:44 PM)
My mistake. So in 20 years they will be half the size of the American economy with three times the # of people.  Whats your point?    MARK
*

Try imagining GDP in terms of distance and China a large shark.
My point is, you mistakenly thought China was 22 metres away from you,
it's not, its 7 metres away and closing.
dixon76710
Since we are a whale, 7 times the size of the Chinese shark, how close it is, is of little concern. MARK


QUOTE (Monsieur Le Tonk @ Jul 5 2005, 09:21 AM)
Try imagining GDP in terms of distance and China a large shark.
My point is, you mistakenly thought China was 22 metres away from you,
it's not, its 7 metres away and closing.
*
Monsieur Le Tonk
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jul 6 2005, 04:44 AM)
Since we are a whale, 7 times the size of the Chinese shark, how close it is, is of little concern.              MARK
*

Ah, but the shark is growing!
OsManli
QUOTE (ustrader @ Jul 4 2005, 04:43 AM)
popcorn.gif As to the former, I have seen no evidence from your commentary but mere afterthoughts of this, unless you would pretense to us benevolence is effluent code for Violence . As to the latter I agree. ohmy.gif
Kind Sir, you would think we all fools I suppose.

First go back and read your posts. If you can so example self-denigration other than that implied for others, please so example them.  In advance, if you do as I could not find any, my apology for being wrong.

Likewise, your clarity was not one of tense, as to verbs, at all! It was unmistakably a clarity. But one in condescension of pretense as to a self professed dogma instead.

A dogma to which you are rightly and freely entitled. But so given to you in the blood shed by others through the use of violence to so keep that right for you.  Indeed afar from the enema clarifying cleansing so explained. 

You said ”We need to correct our verb tenses, folks. Was the American empire benevolent or violent in its founding? Violent.”

Something,when I ask you for solutions to all these problems you complained about, in clarity of your own self professions, if we were to be dependent upon you to solve those great dilimmas in history, we may not have that right of free expresion at all or likely our very existence.
Kind Sir, first of all, to be an ad hominem attack, it must be of personal nature and as well fallaciously contrived to deflect from the facts.

As I gave you my honest views and facts as to my perspection on what you had said and in disagreement on specifics, to which you exclaimed no personal or fallaciousness as to those responses originally.

There was no ad homineum attack as in a personal nor fallacious attempts on my part to deflect from the facts in my first post.

Yet, on the other hand, you knew full well, as I and others noted, your were most disingenuous in your fallacious pretense of incomprehension of what I had said.

This kind Sir is not only personal condescension in the nature of an anal retort as to some mistakes, even if rightfully ill provided. But was, as well, a most deliberate attempt at fallacious pretense as to comprehension on your part.
 
That kind Sir, is unarguably a classical definition of an ad hominem attack and as such was well deserving of a likewise adescriptive response as to its anal retentive nature, condescension and pretense of ill comprehension so deliberately contrived.

If, to you, ad hominem attacks are seeking disagreement as to your idiomatic views, not you as a person, then I stand guilty as charged.

But, as well, if to you, ad hominem attacks means that any disagreement as to the self assumed righteousness in all you say as having indisputable veracity and no fallacy then, Sir,  I stand innocent of such deflective charges as we both acknowledge no kinship to divinty. At least I do, that is? ohmy.gif
Noting the obvious ommision likewise that people of good intention have, as well, more frequently than not, used violence to accomplish much good by deprivng those that would do no good, opportunity and existence of ability to do their will upon others.

Notwithstanding that delibertate ommission, indeed your arguement is an admirable and near unarguable idiom and goal. Well exampled in the literature, thoughts and belief systems of 'intelligenza' for millennium upon millennium.

Likewise, well derived in literate compassion, fable, sacred beliefs and values in all races, creeds and religions throughout time and current history. An easy row to hoe especially in literacy and intellectual solution void endeavors, as to the real human condition and needs, no doubt.

But Kind Sire, this idiom is a row not yet furrowed in the history of human endeavors. As the facts of human history and interactions have self evidently shown a contrarians response in the majority as to your idioms argued hold on human history and life.

An honorable and noble scheme, held in valued high esteem, on a pedestal far above the muck and mire of the mob, for all to admire and devote themselves toward achieving. As it is the promised destiny of humanities divine prominence to stand up there beside that divinity in such noble purpose of achievement in this quest for that most holly of grails. Peace, love and human tranquility.

Indeed an unalienable ambition and unarguable idiom for the goodness within man no doubt about it. However, a standard bearer far removed from its opposition as to humanities endeavors, acts, deeds and accomplishments to date.

It does not answer nor solution evils parallax that is not in a separate dimension from humanity and this intellectual discourse of love and peace far removed from the muck and mire of the mob where it is not well practiced, even in the hollowed halls of piety and heart felt dreams of devinely inspired dreamers.

It ambitions of achievement still today stand as unfulfilled and in as much perverseness as was present in the hollowed temple walls of Jerusalem lambasted and seen by the man named Jesus and before him the man named Buddha and after him the man named Mohammad.       

The more we perceive our advancement toward that exhaled pedestal in the present. The further our reality has actually inched in advancement of it from those days of yester year.

Peace and love will not keep your head from those that seek it. Peace and love will not solution nor remove poverty, starvation, deprivation nor oppression. Peace and love will not defer or desist and or stop murder, rape and pillaging. Peace and love will not stop man’s propensity for war nor, I surmise, will it solution these widely numerous and pervasive phenomena of the human condition for millennium to come.

I know not if man will achieve or if he is even destine to achieve this noble quest for the holly grail that sits upon the pedestal you would have us seek in these lion den we exist in.  I do however unarguably know it is not nearly in sight or solution of man problems today.

I do, likewise,  know absolutely that evil lurks in the heart of many a man and if divinity gave man the ciphered wisdom of comprehension toward achieving a world of peace, love tolerance and tranquility.

It, he or she, as well, gave man, as well, a ciphered wisdom, reason and purpose for the very existences of warrior defenders of that aim that stands between the sheep and the wolves in catechism, walking not away but into the fires of hell that rage at the abyss, as the legions of the Archangel Michael the defender of that aim and of the tribulation to which we pretense our aim before that aim can be so attained.
Again, the blind do not see what they do not look for or sense as existing.

Your friends were obviously blinded by all that love and compassion and a speciousness to see no evil, hear no evil and cognitively derive there is no evil, I surmise.

For the record as I guess you had to be there to know:  wink.gif 


"The FPA expresses deep concern over the harassment of journalists by the Palestinian Authority as police forces and armed gunmen tried to prevent photo and video coverage of Tuesday's rally in Nablus where hundreds of Palestinians celebrated the terror attacks in N.Y. (New York) and Washington," the FPA said in a statement.




CNN tape of the Palestinian celebrations on 9/11

http://rotter.net/israel/dancing_palastinians.mpeg

Similarly, it is notable that when Arafat's words of condolence were so widely broadcast by many in the media, few in the press made note that on the very day of the attacks, the PA-controlled daily newspaper published an article praising suicide bombers as “the engines of history...the most honorable among us.”
See below for articles from AP, Agence France Press, IMRA, the Jerusalem Post and PMW.

ACTION ITEMS: [In the original alert, action items and contact information were listed here.]

*** AP WIRE: 09/12/2001 6:00 pm ET
AP Protests Threats to Freelance Cameraman Who Filmed Palestinian Joy
JERUSALEM (AP) The Associated Press on Wednesday protested to the Palestinian Authority about threats against a freelance cameraman who filmed Palestinians celebrating terror attacks in the United States.

*** AFP REPORT: Wednesday, September 12 10:25 PM SGT
Agence France Press

Excerpt: On Tuesday night, Palestinian security services barred photographers from recording scenes of joy in Nablus as crowds sang the praises of alleged Arab terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden, a prime suspect in the unclaimed attacks on the United States.

*** From: Dr. Aaron Lerner, Director IMRA (Independent Media Review & Analysis)
Date: 12 September 2001

PA Threatens to Kill News Workers If They Broadcast Photos of Celebrating
Israel Radio correspondent Danny Zaken reported on the noon news program that while hundreds of Palestinians went out to the streets in many cities in Judea and Samaria (but not Gaza) to celebrate the attacks against the United States -- distributing candy, waving flags, honking horns and shooting in the air in joy — coverage by the foreign news was typically limited to east Jerusalem..

*** Jerusalem Post September 12 , 2001
(Website: Latest News): Armed Palestinians threatened photojournalists. Reports indicate armed Palestinians trapped foreign photojournalists inside a Nablus hotel late yesterday while thousands took to the streets in celebration of the terror attacks in the United States…

*** Excerpt from 9/12/01 report from Palestinian Media Watch [not to be confused with the pro-Palestinian PMW]:

Within hours after the horrific terrorist attacks in the United States, there were spontaneous outbreaks of rejoicing in the streets of the Palestinian Authority... Arafat's denunciation of the attacks, which continues to be broadcast, is in direct contradiction to the atmosphere of hatred he has been promoting through his tightly controlled media.

Have a good day, ustrader. Love your enemies.

I have, I do and I will.

To the death that will either do them part or bring enlightenment into their darkest so that may see the light of your way as a way out of the darkness they self create!!!

A reminder of these unconverted peace loving people who you and your friends do not seem to know or conceive as existing.



Suicide Bomber Zainab Abu Salem
Her head separated from her pure body,
and her Ra'ala [Muslim headscarf] remains to decorate [her face].
Her place is in Paradise, where in the highest heavens,
Zainab ... sister [who has been raised to the level] of men.

English translation of the Arabic text in
the Hamas children's newspaper Alfatah
of September 22, 2004, in praise of 18 year-old suicide bomber
and children's television presenter Zainab Ali Issa Abu Salem


Her family got $25,000 USD  from Saddam for her head and the bodies of 2 Isreali.



Use of Palestinian Children Bombers Barbaric



ph34r.gif

T HA T
IS     
A LL!

*



Nice propaganda.

The 9/11 Palestinian fotage was from the Gulf War, The child with the vest was tricked by Mossad agents and the rest is garabage.
dixon76710
QUOTE (OsManli @ Jul 5 2005, 06:05 PM)
Nice propaganda.

The 9/11 Palestinian fotage was from the Gulf War, The child with the vest was tricked by Mossad agents and the rest is garabage.
*



Soooo gullible. That ones even made it to the urban legends page. MARK

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.htm
ustrader



T HA T
IS
A LL!
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