expat
Jul 8 2005, 10:50 PM
Well, it is when you think Chuck Hagel is a liberal .....
QUOTE
"I frankly feel at PBS headquarters there is a tone deafness to issues of tone and balance," Kenneth Tomlinson, the chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, said in May. Since he was appointed to his position by
President Bush, he has set about to change the "tone" and rectify the "balance." For example, he helped secure $4 million to fund Wall Street Journal Report, a round-table discussion featuring the newspaper's right-wing editorial board; no liberals or Democrats need apply. Next he collaborated with Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, to kill a legislative proposal that would have required appointments with local broadcasting experience to the CPB board. Last year, to justify his campaign for balance, Tomlinson commissioned a secret study to prove that certain programs aired on PBS radio and television are contaminated with liberal bias.
To carry out this delicate task, Tomlinson selected Fred Mann, a conservative activist with no credentials as an expert on journalism, broadcasting or media issues, who was obscure even within right-wing circles. Mann was paid $14,700 in taxpayer money to monitor a sampling of PBS shows and file a report to Tomlinson on the political partisanship of their content. Tomlinson seems to have planned for Mann's report to become a seminal conservative document. Republicans would wave it during House appropriations committee hearings as they argued for defunding PBS and realigning its programming. Right-wing talk jocks would blare talking points based on Mann's disturbing findings, which would at last provide definitive proof of a liberal media tilt.
...
QUOTE
Senator Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska, garnered his "L" after speaking glowingly of Ronald Reagan in a discussion with Tavis Smiley.
L meaning liberal, as opposed to C for conservative.
...
QUOTE
Matt Labash, a former senior writer for The Weekly Standard who now writes for National Review, in a 2003 interview on the website journalismjobs.com. Labash explained: "The conservative media likes to rap the liberal media on the knuckles for not being objective. We've created this cottage industry in which it pays to be un-objective.... It's a great way to have your cake and eat it too. Criticize other people for not being objective. Be as subjective as you want. It's a great little racket."
Ben-T
Jul 9 2005, 06:20 AM
Why do we have a government funded broadcasting system again? PBS and NPR are perfectly capable of competing on the market. Let them.
expat
Jul 11 2005, 09:54 AM
Aren't YOU the one complaining about strawmen?
Any thoughts about about Tomlinson and the good old liberal Chuck Hagel?
Tuatara
Jul 11 2005, 10:09 AM
QUOTE
Tomlinson commissioned a secret study to prove that certain programs aired on PBS radio and television are contaminated with liberal bias.
Of course the study would be secret. This way no one can see that they made it up.
expat
Jul 13 2005, 09:55 AM
ANYONE have any comment? dkward2? GOP4Life? Bob? BoonMee?
dkward2
Jul 13 2005, 10:09 AM
I guess I can muster up a comment or two, but only because it's you expat.
I must start off by saying I'm not entirely sure as to your point. I am guessing that you are saying conservatives have to shut up about the liberal PBS because now a Rep runs it and is changing things. If this is your point, I agree with you.
PBS has been predominantly liberal for a long time. Political hacks like Bill Moyers were the front runners. I still get steamed knowing that my tax dollars were going to fund that spewing sewer of a man.
However, I do realize that PBS is on the road to bringing in more conservative shows. If we MUST publicly fund PBS, then I hope a good balance is found. However, I have a theory:
Perhaps conservatives are moving in on PBS because it's a win win situation. Either they get to use public funding to spew conservative propaganda, or liberals will eventually agree with them to no longer fund PBS.
With all the educational and child programming out there today, I can't really see a purpose for PBS. I guess the only thing I like about it is the local programming. Once PBS is gone, that niche can be filled by other stations who would like to cash in on it. The problem with PBS is that people are going to be forced to pay for something they don't agree with no matter what. People are not going to agree with many views, even on a perfectly balanced station. Might as well get rid of it...
expat
Jul 13 2005, 10:39 AM
Not ... I'm saying Tomlison is actively trying to prove a liberal bias, the facts be damned.
This fits in perfectly with BushCo's reputation for changing facts to fit theory.
Why does Tomlinson need to commission an utterly biased study to show how liberal CPB is? Maybe because an unbiased look doesn't show it. At least opens up some questions that you don't particularly want to debate.
QUOTE
The problem with PBS is that people are going to be forced to pay for something they don't agree with no matter what.
the CPB financing is some $1-$2 per person. Contrast this to Halliburton's over $1Billion in overcharges (not including another $442 million still under investigation - and this is just the numbers made public so far!)
Personally, I think there are far bigger fish to fry than CPB.
In any case, I thouroughly enjoy about 1/3 of the programming and I am most certain that without cable I would never be able to access quality programming like PBS offers. Otherwise I'd be stuck watching Full House reruns or Oprah. >.<
Ben-T
Jul 13 2005, 01:12 PM
QUOTE (expat @ Jul 11 2005, 09:54 AM)
Aren't YOU the one complaining about strawmen?
Any thoughts about about Tomlinson and the good old liberal Chuck Hagel?
What about them? They are free to have their bias whatever it is. I just don't think our tax dollars should pay for it. I don't care WHAT bias PBS has as long as the citizenry doesn't have to pay for that bias.
expat
Jul 13 2005, 11:41 PM
Repeat of the strawman argument that I never made.
While I do feel that the government ought to support the Arts, as art contributes a lot to society and a great many of the great works of history would never have been created without government sponsorship, (its not a lot that much money anyways!) I was not making this kind o argument.
I was commenting on BushCo duplicity and willingness to twist facts o suit a pre-programmed course of action.
Ben-T
Jul 14 2005, 04:45 AM
I wasn't arguing you expat, I was talking to you. Calm down sparky.
BushCo is turning PBS from monstrously liberally biased to slightly Conservatively biased. Such is the ills of government controlled broadcasting. Put it on the market, it is more than capable of competing.
expat
Jul 14 2005, 09:49 AM
QUOTE (Ben-T @ Jul 14 2005, 11:45 AM)
I wasn't arguing you expat, I was talking to you. Calm down sparky.
BushCo is turning PBS from monstrously liberally biased to slightly Conservatively biased. Such is the ills of government controlled broadcasting. Put it on the market, it is more than capable of competing.
IF CPB was monstrously liberal, THEN they wouldn't need to comission a secret study to call Chuck Hagel a liberal. Remember where in the poilical spectrum you are ... far, far to the edge. If you think its slightly to the right then that means its quite far off the actual meanstream.
Ben-T
Jul 14 2005, 11:29 AM
Because it was put together with the Bush team?
You're throwing wood on the fire that is my argument: Government should not control broadcasting. Especially not broadcasting as politically orientated as PBS and NPR are.
expat
Jul 16 2005, 01:53 AM
My argument is that it is another fine example of changing facts to support a pre-existing plan of action.
Its far off the mainstream because its BushCo - what YOU precieve to be to the "right" and to the "left" of center is skewed from your far out of center perspective. Just human nature to skew things to your perpective.
Ben-T
Jul 16 2005, 03:54 AM
My argument is that government controlled broadcasting will always be victimized by government bias. Taxpayer dollars should not pay for governmetn bias. There isn't any skew to my views except "Give the government controll of information outlet and the information will be pro-government."
You're debating your imagination, not unusual nowadys, you seem to be losing your grip on reality.
expat
Jul 16 2005, 05:36 AM
You said Tomlinson is making the CPB slightly Right-Of-Center. I'd bweg to differ on your definition of right-of-center.
What policies are "centrist"- in your estimation?
Ben-T
Jul 16 2005, 09:35 AM
Centrest in an abstract political sense or centrist within the lexicon of American politics? Or something else?
So far all that has happened is that a report has been filed and they called someone who liked Ronald Reagan a Liberal. Many people like Ronald Reagan, across the board.
As for the study we will have to wait and see now won't we? Wouldn't want to pre-judge, that would be a very close minded, conservative thing to do!
dkward2
Jul 17 2005, 09:14 AM
QUOTE
the CPB financing is some $1-$2 per person
I don't give pan-handlers $1 because I don't agree with how many of them use it. I don't want to give CPB $1 because I disagree with how they use it.
I also don't think that the federal government should support the arts. It has no charter to do such a thing. Art does well enough in the private sector. In fact, the worst art I ever see are on the lawns of court houses etc. That is because no one else considers them art. Hmm...maybe I should make a bunch of bullsh|t and then sell it to the government.....
Don't get me wrong, I do agree that there are MUCH bigger fish to fry that CPB. (That's why I'm not starting topics about it

)
expat
Jul 19 2005, 01:15 AM
QUOTE (Ben-T @ Jul 16 2005, 04:35 PM)
Centrest in an abstract political sense or centrist within the lexicon of American politics? Or something else?
So far all that has happened is that a report has been filed and they called someone who liked Ronald Reagan a Liberal. Many people like Ronald Reagan, across the board.
As for the study we will have to wait and see now won't we? Wouldn't want to pre-judge, that would be a very close minded, conservative thing to do!
heh.. what is the definition of "is", anyway? Am I here? Am I a figment of my imgination? What bout your imagination? Am I an alien and I don't know it?

Just answer the question.
Chuck Hagel is not soneone who "liked Ronald Regan" ... he gets a 100% rating from the Christian Coalition. He's not a Liberal, either (even though he expressed dissent for the Iraq War - thats why he got called a Liberal)
No, we don't really have to wait and see. First, why commission it in secret, then hide it? Why hire someone outside of the appropriate field of expertise, with no relevant experience? Why hire a poiltical "operative" with an obvious bias?
These are not "wait and see" questions. These have obvious answers given the context. Your attempt at obfuscating the issue is appreciated, though. Keep it up - mybe you will actually start to think that you really are an alien!
expat
Jul 19 2005, 01:17 AM
QUOTE (dkward2 @ Jul 17 2005, 04:14 PM)
I don't give pan-handlers $1 because I don't agree with how many of them use it. I don't want to give CPB $1 because I disagree with how they use it.
I also don't think that the federal government should support the arts. It has no charter to do such a thing. Art does well enough in the private sector. In fact, the worst art I ever see are on the lawns of court houses etc. That is because no one else considers them art. Hmm...maybe I should make a bunch of bullsh|t and then sell it to the government.....
Don't get me wrong, I do agree that there are MUCH bigger fish to fry that CPB. (That's why I'm not starting topics about it

)
I would point out that most of the great works of art have been government sponsored. Not that I am set on the issue - I haven't made up my mind.
dkward2
Jul 19 2005, 07:03 AM
That would be an argument that the ends justify the means. I don't believe they do, at least in this case.
expat
Jul 20 2005, 03:25 AM
IMHO, the government is there to improve the lot of its citizens. Why else would you have government? Great governments throughout time have sponsored artworks that help to maintain a national identity - a sense of what it is to be an American and what America is.
I actually strongly believe that art should be supported, but I am stuck on how to go about it (besides art in schools, of course - and quite opssibly that is enough) I really LIKE seeing big statues nd stuff like that in my city - it really adds a lot to the quality of life having nice places I can go. Otherwise it ends up as a strip-mall suburbia. True, I don't always like everything, but then no one ever does. I met the architect of some totem-pole type artwork in Portland, OR a while back. He said that half the people really like them and the other half really hate them - and that is what art should be like. Curious...
dkward2
Jul 20 2005, 11:39 AM
I think teaching an appreciation for art is acceptable in schools. However, I would rather have them concentrating on getting our math, science, and English scores up first.
I'm not up in arms about government arts, or PBS. I just realize that the constitution doesn't allow for it. We just have way more unconstitutional practices right now to worry about all of them.
Ben-T
Jul 20 2005, 01:41 PM
QUOTE (expat @ Jul 19 2005, 01:15 AM)
heh.. what is the definition of "is", anyway? Am I here? Am I a figment of my imgination? What bout your imagination? Am I an alien and I don't know it?

Just answer the question.
Chuck Hagel is not soneone who "liked Ronald Regan" ... he gets a 100% rating from the Christian Coalition. He's not a Liberal, either (even though he expressed dissent for the Iraq War - thats why he got called a Liberal)
No, we don't really have to wait and see. First, why commission it in secret, then hide it? Why hire someone outside of the appropriate field of expertise, with no relevant experience? Why hire a poiltical "operative" with an obvious bias?
These are not "wait and see" questions. These have obvious answers given the context. Your attempt at obfuscating the issue is appreciated, though. Keep it up - mybe you will actually start to think that you really are an alien!
I am perfectly happy to answer the question, I just want to know what the question is.
Are you asking what a moderate is in a cosmic sense, or are you asking me what a moderate is in the American political sense, or something else? Very different questions, very different answers.
expat
Jul 21 2005, 04:26 AM
OK ... now it depends on what the defintion of "question" is. Slick.
What is a moderate? I am not asking "What is a moderate in the grand scheme of things?" nor am I asking "What is a moderate in th 15th century Bantu Empire?"
The context was American politics, as defined by what is "left" and what is "right" .. I asked "what is in the middle?"
expat
Nov 7 2005, 02:05 AM
Update: After this and other accounting abnormalities, Tomlinson just resigned ahead of an impending report by an independent investigation. Good times.
Ben-T
Nov 7 2005, 12:08 PM
QUOTE (expat @ Jul 21 2005, 04:26 AM)
OK ... now it depends on what the defintion of "question" is. Slick.
What is a moderate? I am not asking "What is a moderate in the grand scheme of things?" nor am I asking "What is a moderate in th 15th century Bantu Empire?"
The context was American politics, as defined by what is "left" and what is "right" .. I asked "what is in the middle?"
A middle sized government, certainly much bigger than I would like, and much smaller than the Europeans have or the left would like. POSSIBLY a national healthcare service, a strong national defense, probablly civil unions for Gays but not marriages, strong support for the War on Terror but some apprehension about the war in Iraq, support for tax cuts and welfare reform, maybe support for social security reform, maybe not.
Those are generally the stances I would imagine an American moderate taking. Not that I see anything inherently virtuous about being a "Moderate"
expat
Nov 9 2005, 09:33 AM
QUOTE (Ben-T @ Jul 16 2005, 04:35 PM)
Centrest in an abstract political sense or centrist within the lexicon of American politics? Or something else?
So far all that has happened is that a report has been filed and they called someone who liked Ronald Reagan a Liberal. Many people like Ronald Reagan, across the board.
As for the study we will have to wait and see now won't we? Wouldn't want to pre-judge, that would be a very close minded, conservative thing to do!
Well, the original question was about what you thought about this kind of behavior. (I guess the waiting part is up)
In addition, there was the bit about what bias is. You were arguing that there wasn't much bias in the report. I was saying you didn't read the article, and did you care to post further comment?
QUOTE
A middle sized government, certainly much bigger than I would like, and much smaller than the Europeans have or the left would like. POSSIBLY a national healthcare service, a strong national defense, probablly civil unions for Gays but not marriages, strong support for the War on Terror but some apprehension about the war in Iraq, support for tax cuts and welfare reform, maybe support for social security reform, maybe not.
Those are generally the stances I would imagine an American moderate taking. Not that I see anything inherently virtuous about being a "Moderate"
Now - do you think Chuck Hagel is to the right or left of this - your definition of Centrist. What information on the bias of the report can you glean from that presumed disparity?
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