It is clear that the Bush Administration will draw some sort of line in the sand with their new mexican slave labor policy. But the rhetoric here in the Pacific Northwest has become increasingly elevated in the past week and uniquely not from the socialists. A point was made that the Bush Administration was chosing a communist illeterate racist peasant indian over their constituency. They are chosing a neo-slave over their bread and butter. Out with the $45,000+ a year family man, who follows all the rules, pays taxes, obeys the laws, bears the brunt of the administrations mistakes and supports the war in Iraq. This administration is wiling to throw this demographic to the lions for what they think will be a quick vote? Do they actually believe that these nationalist hispanic racist people will vote for them?!?! The rhetoric that is floating around right now speaks to this utter and irreparable betrayal of Americans. And is it not a betrayal? Are we not actually a nation of laws? Because by saying that it is okay for 11-20 million people to break the law, what then is the point of having laws? What do we have then? A nation that is goverened not by votes or by laws but by shear numbers of law breakers? Many people in the Puget Sound area, which includes some famous business owners, entrepreneurs, students, laboreres and the rest of the old republican constituency are teaming with some unlikely allies. These include some of the very old school democrats and workers unions. There is a lot at stake and it is important that "our" administration realize this. NO consideration has been made of the social implications of this and that means our leaders are very detached. I only say this as someone who was born and raised in the southwest so I know all too well about the Mexican flags being shoved in peoples faces. I know all too well about their machismo (the other night on Fox that Mexican professor from UCLA wanted to physically hurt Michelle Malkin, he couldn't stand a woman telling him anything). I also know ALL too well about their violence and lack of reason and nazi-like deidcation to MEXICO. I grew up having to make concessions on simple things like intelligent rhetoric, knowledge and patriotism to my country just to fit in! These are the demands being made by these nationalist transformists...they seek their atzlan, their la raza unida-Do we just hand it over? Do we just let our administration destroy us? This is how we are repaid with our loyalty. They expect that they can squeeze this out of us, that we will be here for them regardless. They are counting on the opiate-like calm of our highly taxed houses and uber convenience to make us forget, lose our diginity in a barrage of sound bytes and double speak. For 50 years they have lied to us and we have let it happen. We are a nation of laws. I am not really sure that I want to live in a nation that has betrayed my long life of service, my veteranship, my loyalty and my patriotism. What then do I have left? The comfort of this mexican amnesty quilt? Nothing so porous will ever keep me warm. Is this in fact our own leaders turning the pistol on us for their lust of the moment? Not for me and I must say that this is a line I will not cross. As always, our forefathers have said it best:
A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, February 12, 1779
Accept nothing less than deportation! They attempt to lose deportation in a mountain of rhetoric citing logisitcs...But I propose, what cost is the law? Will civil war be our voice?
Full Version: Civil War
Mass deportation = Massive collapse of the American economy.
No thanks.
My only gripe with them is that they refuse to speak English.
No thanks.
My only gripe with them is that they refuse to speak English.
Perhaps we agree, Ben-T, that immigrants to a new country should learn the language. Normally, usually, they do. But the late Señora Flóres, the grandmother of my son-in-law, never learned, probably because after immigrating to Texas, she lived in Hispanic neighborhoods, and probably migrated in the 1930's, when there was less assimilation. Her kids are bilingual; most of her grandkids could barely speak kitchen Spanish; and the great-grandkids hardly even know they're Hispanic except for last names like Gutierrez and Alvarado.
My first private tutoring student was a Black Panamanian female, middle aged with grown children, who needed to pass the English part of the GED to go to university. The Mexican kids were often hounding me for free lessons. Most of the immigrants try to learn, but not all.
English proficiency is required for naturalization (except for elderly people), but most illegal Hispanics don't get to become citizens.
Bilingual education, however, is not worth the trouble. Except on a voluntary basis, when the student and parents want it. My half-Mexican granddaughter started kindergarten without knowing any Spanish, and the class was 90% taught in Spanish. Now she's bilingual. Neat. But with names like Julianna and Dalton, and a very English family name, they don't appear Hispanic. My daughter-in-law used to get accused, when she was taking the kids shopping without my son, of being the nanny.
My first private tutoring student was a Black Panamanian female, middle aged with grown children, who needed to pass the English part of the GED to go to university. The Mexican kids were often hounding me for free lessons. Most of the immigrants try to learn, but not all.
English proficiency is required for naturalization (except for elderly people), but most illegal Hispanics don't get to become citizens.
Bilingual education, however, is not worth the trouble. Except on a voluntary basis, when the student and parents want it. My half-Mexican granddaughter started kindergarten without knowing any Spanish, and the class was 90% taught in Spanish. Now she's bilingual. Neat. But with names like Julianna and Dalton, and a very English family name, they don't appear Hispanic. My daughter-in-law used to get accused, when she was taking the kids shopping without my son, of being the nanny.
So how do you propose to do that civil war thing? In any case, I feel that there is an inherent belief in the Bush Administration and the Republican party to a lesser extent that their constituency is expendable, always loyal and there to carry the load. This same constituency is already doing this for everything else. It should be very clear to you every time you hear someone say "it would be impossible to relocate 11 million people..." that this is why they allowed it to happen to such extremes in the first place. It then will not be a focus of deportation, but a manipulation of how an application of law is to take place in such a way that the Republican party appears the appeaser, the good guy. In other words, get the Republican constituency to use rhetoric that focuses on the problem of "securing" the border, a distractionary measure to which there is no real debate. If the administration wanted to really stem the tide of illegal immigration, they could, everyone knows this. Military experts state that it would take about 35000 agents or troops to do this, the president could accomplish this with an executive order and enforcement would occur in about 2 months. If you were to step back and ask yourself why they would do this in the macro sense, there is no legitimate answer. No logical reason we would host another nations social welfare cases. The true reason is unclear to me and I don't think I would like to know it...From another point of view, if the reason is for cheap labor, then this illustrates that the administration is detached and not really understanding the true situation-most likely this isn't the case. But lets consider the current proposal...It will create 4000 agents in the next 5 years and currently the border patrol can only train something like 200 a year with an attrition rate of over 1000 per year. Frankly it doesn't take a genius to get this, even a mexican can get this, the administration doesn't have any plans to secure the border! What we can acertain is that they have no plans on making them leave, no plans on actually having an impregnable national boundry and great plans on providing them amnesty. How can anyone not see the "secure the borders, thats definitely a problem" talking point as anything other than a diversion?
One has to consider that there are "laws" being proposed but we know all too well the history of enforcement. Let's consider the aliens themselves and better yet, let's consider why a country would have no problems pushing its people onto another country. I believe the Hispanics will play the Republican game, there will be short term gains in votes and contentment on the part of Republicans. When news commentators commented on how the nationalist transformists were parading Mexican Flags, the word got out to include American flags and almost overnight this was the case. Some propagandists, like the newspaper tree in El Paso actually carried them around and placed them in shots. This immigrant group has strong ties to socialism and communism that goes way back...At their protests there is a running battle between pictures of the Virgin Mary, Che Guevara and Ceasar Chavez. Historically, these people are driven by the mythological concept of a homeland called atzlan, stolen from Aztec myths and transformed in the 1960's as a political motivator for chicano activism. It must be said that these people are in no way Aztec, but a cross between Yaqui, Spaniard and other northern indians. There are some mexican immigrants who bear a resemblance to aztecs and share a common physicality, but these are the minority. Many owe their hybrid existence to a life around Spanish missions and townships. The nationalism of this group began with Reies Lopez Tijerina in 1966. He began a foreign funded campaign called the Land Grant Movement in New Mexico. The premise of which, at least on the surface, was to demand that the US federal government honor the treaty of Hidalgo from 1840! Let's not get too far ahead on this one...This action served Reies Lopez Tijerina by centralizing the chicano movement and unifying it, it also served the Soviet funders on many levels as well. The Soviets knew, as did Reies Lopez Tijerina, that the chances of this treaty being honored were beyond absurd, yet it created chaos in a strategic region of the US. The movement would create strong bonds between Mexicans on both sides of the border and begin a wave of illegal immigration through an area which housed some of the most critical developmental facilities in the US military. White Sands Missle Range a strategic defense research center focusing not only on missile technology, but nuclear, chemical, laser and other special projects. include McGregor Range, Meyer Small Arms Range, SHORAD Range, and Orogrande Range. The nearby Otero Range is important to the Stealth Fighter and Bomber squadrons stationed in Alamagordo, NM as it contained some physical areas used to simulate defensive and tactical strategy in the European Theater and a potential conflict between the Soviet Union and the west. El Paso was nearby and highly important as it had in its proximity Fort Bliss. Home to USAADACENFB the U.S. Army’s Air Defense and Artillery Center and U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) installation. It is the only U.S. Army training installation in the continental U.S. capable of firing long-range Air Defense Artillery missiles, such as Patriot, HAWK and eventually the Theater High Altitude Air Defense (THAAD) System. It also hosts four air-defense brigades assigned to the U.S. Army Forces Command (FORSCOM), the 3rd Armored Calvary, 11th Air defense Artillery brigade, 108th Air Defense Artillery Brigade, 32nd Army Air and Missile Defense Command, 35th Air Defense Artillery Brigade and most importantly Fort Bliss plays host to huge Joint Task Force War Games that practiced strategy against WARSAW pact forces. In New Mexico we also have Kirtland Air Force Base which is home to Nuclear Weapons Center, 377th Air Base Wing, 498 Armament System Wing and various top secret research facilities.Nearby Kirtland is the Los Alamos Scientific Research Facility, home of the Manhattan Project. There are many other facilities in New Mexico but it becomes clear that there is a vested interest in Soviet interdiction policy. But Tijerina's nationalist message about "chicano" is picked up by Rodolfo "Corky" Gonzales in Denver and later encompasses Cesar Chavez Farmworkers. They have successfully created a new identity seperate from the US population, rooted in socialism with a desire for land based on a mythological, almost nazi like connection with agrarianism. They are funded by many foreign entities with similar political interests and this gave birth to the La Raza Unida party, a racist, mexican nationalist organization with the goal of territorial gains of US lands. In 1968 the fetish with the nationalist transformists as a political toy. Do to riots and unrest in California, Robert Kennedy spotted an opportunity and built a relationship with La Raza Unida and gained the chicano movement as a loyal voting block. The Republicans have only found that appeasement is the only way to get temporary gains in the Mexcian American community ballot box. La Raza Unida broke off and reformed over the years, but the tie to foreign funding and nationalistic identity has never changed. Quickly and long before this modern collectivist upheavel Mexican Americans have had a long history of violence, flirtations with nationalism and hatred of America, Americans and white people. The Zoot Suit riots occured as Mexicans refused to cooperate with the war effort in WW2 and ration cloth and other items as millions of Americans were doing. They wore expensive suits and drove around in cars with brand new tires, had gold watches and generally did everything they could to demonstrate their lack of support for the US. It is also worth metioning that Mexico nearly signed a treaty with Nazi Germany and didn't do to heavy backroom threatening from the US. What this brings us back to is the composition of these people and their use as groundpounders in a larger scheme. Their transformative capacity can be best illustrated by Mao Tse tungs treastise on Guerilla Struggle, in which he asserts that there are 3 conditions to be met for successful subversion.
1) translated: "the active support of a significant portion of the population, say 10%. It is sufficient that the remainder are apathetic or terrorized into submission."
Criteria met: By 2015 68-71% of the southwest will be mexicans from mexico
2) translated: "secure sanctuaries for the guerrilla formations to operate from. An adjacent country whose government actively supports the guerrillas is ideal, but in-country sanctuaries such as jungles, swamps or moun- tains will suffice."
Criteria met: If you do not know this one please learn Spanish.
3) translated: "ongoing aid from a foreign government in the form of financial assistance, armaments, diplomatic and other support "
Criteria met: Several countries which include Mexico, much of communist central american countries, Columbia, Russia, Germany, France and the Middle East.
source: Samuel B, Griffith, Mao Tse-Tung on Guerrilla Warfare, Praeger Publishers
So at what point can anything other than the rule of ALREADY established law be successful? I am completely aware that this divisive issue benefits the democrat party, regardless of the republican decision or action. The only solution is the deportation and then take the onslaught, this would then in turn split the democratic party from their union base and anti-nafta base. There is absolutely no other way! Anything else is a betrayal of the constitution no matter how you frame it.
One has to consider that there are "laws" being proposed but we know all too well the history of enforcement. Let's consider the aliens themselves and better yet, let's consider why a country would have no problems pushing its people onto another country. I believe the Hispanics will play the Republican game, there will be short term gains in votes and contentment on the part of Republicans. When news commentators commented on how the nationalist transformists were parading Mexican Flags, the word got out to include American flags and almost overnight this was the case. Some propagandists, like the newspaper tree in El Paso actually carried them around and placed them in shots. This immigrant group has strong ties to socialism and communism that goes way back...At their protests there is a running battle between pictures of the Virgin Mary, Che Guevara and Ceasar Chavez. Historically, these people are driven by the mythological concept of a homeland called atzlan, stolen from Aztec myths and transformed in the 1960's as a political motivator for chicano activism. It must be said that these people are in no way Aztec, but a cross between Yaqui, Spaniard and other northern indians. There are some mexican immigrants who bear a resemblance to aztecs and share a common physicality, but these are the minority. Many owe their hybrid existence to a life around Spanish missions and townships. The nationalism of this group began with Reies Lopez Tijerina in 1966. He began a foreign funded campaign called the Land Grant Movement in New Mexico. The premise of which, at least on the surface, was to demand that the US federal government honor the treaty of Hidalgo from 1840! Let's not get too far ahead on this one...This action served Reies Lopez Tijerina by centralizing the chicano movement and unifying it, it also served the Soviet funders on many levels as well. The Soviets knew, as did Reies Lopez Tijerina, that the chances of this treaty being honored were beyond absurd, yet it created chaos in a strategic region of the US. The movement would create strong bonds between Mexicans on both sides of the border and begin a wave of illegal immigration through an area which housed some of the most critical developmental facilities in the US military. White Sands Missle Range a strategic defense research center focusing not only on missile technology, but nuclear, chemical, laser and other special projects. include McGregor Range, Meyer Small Arms Range, SHORAD Range, and Orogrande Range. The nearby Otero Range is important to the Stealth Fighter and Bomber squadrons stationed in Alamagordo, NM as it contained some physical areas used to simulate defensive and tactical strategy in the European Theater and a potential conflict between the Soviet Union and the west. El Paso was nearby and highly important as it had in its proximity Fort Bliss. Home to USAADACENFB the U.S. Army’s Air Defense and Artillery Center and U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) installation. It is the only U.S. Army training installation in the continental U.S. capable of firing long-range Air Defense Artillery missiles, such as Patriot, HAWK and eventually the Theater High Altitude Air Defense (THAAD) System. It also hosts four air-defense brigades assigned to the U.S. Army Forces Command (FORSCOM), the 3rd Armored Calvary, 11th Air defense Artillery brigade, 108th Air Defense Artillery Brigade, 32nd Army Air and Missile Defense Command, 35th Air Defense Artillery Brigade and most importantly Fort Bliss plays host to huge Joint Task Force War Games that practiced strategy against WARSAW pact forces. In New Mexico we also have Kirtland Air Force Base which is home to Nuclear Weapons Center, 377th Air Base Wing, 498 Armament System Wing and various top secret research facilities.Nearby Kirtland is the Los Alamos Scientific Research Facility, home of the Manhattan Project. There are many other facilities in New Mexico but it becomes clear that there is a vested interest in Soviet interdiction policy. But Tijerina's nationalist message about "chicano" is picked up by Rodolfo "Corky" Gonzales in Denver and later encompasses Cesar Chavez Farmworkers. They have successfully created a new identity seperate from the US population, rooted in socialism with a desire for land based on a mythological, almost nazi like connection with agrarianism. They are funded by many foreign entities with similar political interests and this gave birth to the La Raza Unida party, a racist, mexican nationalist organization with the goal of territorial gains of US lands. In 1968 the fetish with the nationalist transformists as a political toy. Do to riots and unrest in California, Robert Kennedy spotted an opportunity and built a relationship with La Raza Unida and gained the chicano movement as a loyal voting block. The Republicans have only found that appeasement is the only way to get temporary gains in the Mexcian American community ballot box. La Raza Unida broke off and reformed over the years, but the tie to foreign funding and nationalistic identity has never changed. Quickly and long before this modern collectivist upheavel Mexican Americans have had a long history of violence, flirtations with nationalism and hatred of America, Americans and white people. The Zoot Suit riots occured as Mexicans refused to cooperate with the war effort in WW2 and ration cloth and other items as millions of Americans were doing. They wore expensive suits and drove around in cars with brand new tires, had gold watches and generally did everything they could to demonstrate their lack of support for the US. It is also worth metioning that Mexico nearly signed a treaty with Nazi Germany and didn't do to heavy backroom threatening from the US. What this brings us back to is the composition of these people and their use as groundpounders in a larger scheme. Their transformative capacity can be best illustrated by Mao Tse tungs treastise on Guerilla Struggle, in which he asserts that there are 3 conditions to be met for successful subversion.
1) translated: "the active support of a significant portion of the population, say 10%. It is sufficient that the remainder are apathetic or terrorized into submission."
Criteria met: By 2015 68-71% of the southwest will be mexicans from mexico
2) translated: "secure sanctuaries for the guerrilla formations to operate from. An adjacent country whose government actively supports the guerrillas is ideal, but in-country sanctuaries such as jungles, swamps or moun- tains will suffice."
Criteria met: If you do not know this one please learn Spanish.
3) translated: "ongoing aid from a foreign government in the form of financial assistance, armaments, diplomatic and other support "
Criteria met: Several countries which include Mexico, much of communist central american countries, Columbia, Russia, Germany, France and the Middle East.
source: Samuel B, Griffith, Mao Tse-Tung on Guerrilla Warfare, Praeger Publishers
So at what point can anything other than the rule of ALREADY established law be successful? I am completely aware that this divisive issue benefits the democrat party, regardless of the republican decision or action. The only solution is the deportation and then take the onslaught, this would then in turn split the democratic party from their union base and anti-nafta base. There is absolutely no other way! Anything else is a betrayal of the constitution no matter how you frame it.
QUOTE (Ben-T @ Apr 3 2006, 02:25 AM) 
Mass deportation = Massive collapse of the American economy.
Are you otta your fn mind? That's the biggest lie of the wetback supporters and they got you hook line and sinker! Think it through, son, and then please explain to us that if all the illegals dissapeared tomorrow how our economy would collaspe.
Let me propose an observation. There is a constant misconception, generally to do with the illegal aliens that are here. It makes its way into news anchor discourse by means of talking points like "out of the shadows" and "they'll go underground." A few weeks ago many of the illegals were parading about with flags of Che, Mexico, AFL CIO and Venezula. Some reporters and commentators made notice of this and mentioned that it "may" be hurting their cause. Almost overnight, they were told to wear white (this spreads out in video images, especially arial shots) and to brandish american flags. Point being...These are a highly centralized group from which they can be accessed and directed, so somebody knows they are there. This isn't in the shadows at all. Secondly, a group is controlling them and funding them (see my second post). This is important because the president slated to replace Vicente Fox is a Hugo Chavez type. What country in the history of the world wouldn't have loved to have control of 20 million people in another countries land?
What I don't understand is why all the apathy? Why aren't people enraged at the obvious and chronic disregard of Rule Of Law? What will it take, or have we already lost? The illegals haven't really exposed their true face yet except briefly in Portland OR. They became enraged at a group of counter protesters and attacked them. These are violent collectivists and what gets me to no end is that they are illegally here making demands of our government! I don't understand this?!?!
Does anyone not see the ramifications of this?
What I don't understand is why all the apathy? Why aren't people enraged at the obvious and chronic disregard of Rule Of Law? What will it take, or have we already lost? The illegals haven't really exposed their true face yet except briefly in Portland OR. They became enraged at a group of counter protesters and attacked them. These are violent collectivists and what gets me to no end is that they are illegally here making demands of our government! I don't understand this?!?!
Does anyone not see the ramifications of this?
OK, this might suprise y'all but I was STUCK IN TRAFFIC today for over three hours because I ran into a protest of FIFTY THOUSAND ILLEGAL ALIENS demanding something totally undefined.
They were waving American flags mostly, but also Mexicano flags.
I don't believe for one minute that these cabrons are Yankee Doodle Dandies.
I know for a fact what the Mexican government would do to FIFTY THOUSAND ILLEGAL Yankoids in Mexico City marching like this.
I am sorry.
They are ASKING for a backlash and they are going to get it, big time.
I do feel compassion in my heart for the suffering they are going to go through, but no country in the world would allow this total chaotic breakdown of national borders, and the USA should be no different.
They were waving American flags mostly, but also Mexicano flags.
I don't believe for one minute that these cabrons are Yankee Doodle Dandies.
I know for a fact what the Mexican government would do to FIFTY THOUSAND ILLEGAL Yankoids in Mexico City marching like this.
I am sorry.
They are ASKING for a backlash and they are going to get it, big time.
I do feel compassion in my heart for the suffering they are going to go through, but no country in the world would allow this total chaotic breakdown of national borders, and the USA should be no different.
QUOTE (SegundoCumming @ Apr 10 2006, 10:05 PM)
OK, this might suprise y'all but I was STUCK IN TRAFFIC today for over three hours because I ran into a protest of FIFTY THOUSAND ILLEGAL ALIENS demanding something totally undefined.
They were waving American flags mostly, but also Mexicano flags.
I don't believe for one minute that these cabrons are Yankee Doodle Dandies.
I know for a fact what the Mexican government would do to FIFTY THOUSAND ILLEGAL Yankoids in Mexico City marching like this.
I am sorry.
They are ASKING for a backlash and they are going to get it, big time.
I do feel compassion in my heart for the suffering they are going to go through, but no country in the world would allow this total chaotic breakdown of national borders, and the USA should be no different.
They were waving American flags mostly, but also Mexicano flags.
I don't believe for one minute that these cabrons are Yankee Doodle Dandies.
I know for a fact what the Mexican government would do to FIFTY THOUSAND ILLEGAL Yankoids in Mexico City marching like this.
I am sorry.
They are ASKING for a backlash and they are going to get it, big time.
I do feel compassion in my heart for the suffering they are going to go through, but no country in the world would allow this total chaotic breakdown of national borders, and the USA should be no different.
Wait A Minute! I thought you were still in Thailand. How did they get so many protestors there waving Mexican flags? TQ, where are you right now? Are you back in Atlanta again?
A 5min audio message from Tom Tancredo and JD Hayworth
http://www.minutemanpirateradio.com/AlertMessages.mp3
http://www.minutemanpirateradio.com/AlertMessages.mp3
CIVIL WAR? Why in the world is there talk about civil war? In Thailand, it isn't happening. In Iraq, surely it's happening. But not in America, the land of the free; not in Atlanta, home of the Braves. Or is their pro ball team the Seahawks? Whatever.
Note to Gore Lost: hey, we know that Al Gore lost; that was 2000, and we're over it. Please get with the calendar. And please, could you at least reduce the size of your avatar? What's the point of showing a bloody Jesus if you believe in bloody civil war? The bloody Roman government killed the great pacifist Jesus, but at least the govt. of the USA isn't killing illegal aliens much, yet.
Gore Lost, you're raving like a maniac. Vicente Fox hasn't appointed a successor yet; the election is July 1, 2006. Besides, I owe him a favor; I would probably have been deported from Mexico if Fox lost his election. Instead, I got a nice phone call from the lady who became Fox's second wife. Like the man he replaced, Fox is not pointing his finger to designate his inevitable successor.
Gore Lost, you and Nomad seem to be prone to fits of madness. Try some herbal remedies, or have a good night's sleep or some good sex, or try to get out more.
Note to Gore Lost: hey, we know that Al Gore lost; that was 2000, and we're over it. Please get with the calendar. And please, could you at least reduce the size of your avatar? What's the point of showing a bloody Jesus if you believe in bloody civil war? The bloody Roman government killed the great pacifist Jesus, but at least the govt. of the USA isn't killing illegal aliens much, yet.
Gore Lost, you're raving like a maniac. Vicente Fox hasn't appointed a successor yet; the election is July 1, 2006. Besides, I owe him a favor; I would probably have been deported from Mexico if Fox lost his election. Instead, I got a nice phone call from the lady who became Fox's second wife. Like the man he replaced, Fox is not pointing his finger to designate his inevitable successor.
Gore Lost, you and Nomad seem to be prone to fits of madness. Try some herbal remedies, or have a good night's sleep or some good sex, or try to get out more.
QUOTE (Nomad @ Apr 3 2006, 10:13 PM)
Are you otta your fn mind? That's the biggest lie of the wetback supporters and they got you hook line and sinker! Think it through, son, and then please explain to us that if all the illegals dissapeared tomorrow how our economy would collaspe.
The cheap labor that we rely on would disappear.
It's shocking that you couldn't think through that one yourself.
Some thoughts on rule of law in this matter...
???
???
Ben's right. I left Brownsville, Texas, because I was competing with illegal aliens or their spouses, working as a trained accountant at $7.50 per hour, on the night shift. The same pay was offered me to do inbound telemarketing on the night shift, in Spanish. My castellano was much better than the native Mexican-Americans in Brownsville-Harlingen, the HR lady said. It's the toilet of Texas. While the Tex-Mex border economy isn't a model of much at all, it demonstrates that the availability of a huge pool of cheap labor depresses the entire job market. Yet, the cost of living is not commensurably cheaper.
Cheap labor is propping up the hotel and construction industries, important factors in the market. And domestic labor, not a well measured component of the economy. How many appointees for federal agency top jobs had to resign because they employed illegal aliens as domestic employees?
A massive increase of deportations is a joke. "Wetbacks" are promptly deported every day, but it's the tip of the iceberg. The govt. is not going to find most of them, and is not going to deport them. It is still easy to get across our southern border, and it's also easy to get across Mexico's southern border, where I also lived. Our country doesn't have the fortitude to guard our border, partly because small and medium business desparately needs the cheap labor.
Realism: let's be realistic. Let's deal with the aliens who are here. Those who have been here more than five years are here to stay. I don't think we need a full amnesty program, although some of the more modest proposals for it are reasonable and practical. However, the immigration law should be amended to say that recipients of amnesty cannot patriate their families to the USA. That's cruel, but it's realistic. Besides, a lot of five-year immigrants have fornicated new families for themselves, and won't be getting tia, tio, and abuelos to join them in the USA.
Cheap labor is propping up the hotel and construction industries, important factors in the market. And domestic labor, not a well measured component of the economy. How many appointees for federal agency top jobs had to resign because they employed illegal aliens as domestic employees?
A massive increase of deportations is a joke. "Wetbacks" are promptly deported every day, but it's the tip of the iceberg. The govt. is not going to find most of them, and is not going to deport them. It is still easy to get across our southern border, and it's also easy to get across Mexico's southern border, where I also lived. Our country doesn't have the fortitude to guard our border, partly because small and medium business desparately needs the cheap labor.
Realism: let's be realistic. Let's deal with the aliens who are here. Those who have been here more than five years are here to stay. I don't think we need a full amnesty program, although some of the more modest proposals for it are reasonable and practical. However, the immigration law should be amended to say that recipients of amnesty cannot patriate their families to the USA. That's cruel, but it's realistic. Besides, a lot of five-year immigrants have fornicated new families for themselves, and won't be getting tia, tio, and abuelos to join them in the USA.
QUOTE (Ben-T @ Apr 10 2006, 09:04 PM)
The cheap labor that we rely on would disappear.
It's shocking that you couldn't think through that one yourself.
It's shocking that you couldn't think through that one yourself.
Then why don't you help me out here Ben.... Exactly what cheap labor are you referring to??
I think it is distractive to argue about cheap labor. Personally I feel that what is at play is ideological. Look at the person slated to become the next president of mexico. He makes Hugo chavez look tame. Also, I would just add this source as a focal point for the demonstrative question at play...What to do about executive violation of the Rule of Law?
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892a.asp
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892a.asp
Ben can answer for himself, but the cheap labor that I mentioned in post #15 includes construction, lodging, and the tourism businesses. To a lesser extent, gardeners, maids, and small businesses including assembly plants. As I pointed out also, this huge pool of cheap labor at the bottom of the workforce depresses the middle class wages as well.
As an IRS auditor in San Antonio and Houston - over 250 miles from the border - I knew of many Hispanic citizen-taxpayers have their SS# stolen, and the illegal aliens who bought the number worked in factories. Some of those factories were in Chicago and North Carolina. The guy in Houston presented himself to the factory HR dept. (he proved he'd worked elsewhere full time) and asked, "Do I look like the Jose Jimenez that worked here?" Answer: "Hell no, Jose was 10 inches shorter, 12 years younger, 3 skin shades darker, and 100 pounds lighter."
As an IRS auditor in San Antonio and Houston - over 250 miles from the border - I knew of many Hispanic citizen-taxpayers have their SS# stolen, and the illegal aliens who bought the number worked in factories. Some of those factories were in Chicago and North Carolina. The guy in Houston presented himself to the factory HR dept. (he proved he'd worked elsewhere full time) and asked, "Do I look like the Jose Jimenez that worked here?" Answer: "Hell no, Jose was 10 inches shorter, 12 years younger, 3 skin shades darker, and 100 pounds lighter."
QUOTE
They are ASKING for a backlash and they are going to get it, big time.
Quite right TQ. As will ANY group that tries to force it's agenda. For example.. I don't dislike you for who you are, I dislike you for how you act. Something for you to think about. And congratulations on your epihany regarding the illegals.
QUOTE (Nomad @ Apr 10 2006, 10:56 PM)
Quite right TQ. As will ANY group that tries to force it's agenda. For example.. I don't dislike you for who you are, I dislike you for how you act. Something for you to think about. And congratulations on your epihany regarding the illegals.
Non citizens have no right to protest or demand anything. They are not even guests. They are intruders. It is not all their fault of course. There should have been laws in place to legalize guest workers (with a path towards citizenship) with applications being made from abroad, as well as jail sentences for employers who hire illegals. They are only humans trying to survive, doing what they need to do in their self interest. The mess that will follow is mostly the USA lawmakers fault, but that still doesn't give illegals the right to protest outside their own country.
Michael Reagan Article on Immigration:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=21973
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=21973
Thank you, Gore Lost, that article proves my point.
Mexico is a great country and I love it there, but FOREIGNERS in Mexico has NO RIGHT to protest in Mexico, and Mexicans also should have NO RIGHT to protest in the USA.
Mexico is a great country and I love it there, but FOREIGNERS in Mexico has NO RIGHT to protest in Mexico, and Mexicans also should have NO RIGHT to protest in the USA.
Mexico has an article in its federal Constitution that authorizes the Presidente to order the deportation of aliens who get involved in political affairs. I almost got deported.
The USA, rather than having such a law, has had a Constitution since 1792, and a First Amendment shortly thereafter, guaranteeing freedom of speech. Period. Rhode Island, which was a pioneer in human rights in the New World, refused to ratify the Constitution until they were promised a Bill of Rights.
Segundo, if you've spent much time in Mexico or Thailand, as I have, you know that govt.'s aren't reciprocal in their treatment of aliens. Mexico, for example, is far more lenient about allowing jerks like me to stay in Mexico, while Thailand makes it impossible for me to work legally here. I'm a farang wetback!
The USA, rather than having such a law, has had a Constitution since 1792, and a First Amendment shortly thereafter, guaranteeing freedom of speech. Period. Rhode Island, which was a pioneer in human rights in the New World, refused to ratify the Constitution until they were promised a Bill of Rights.
Segundo, if you've spent much time in Mexico or Thailand, as I have, you know that govt.'s aren't reciprocal in their treatment of aliens. Mexico, for example, is far more lenient about allowing jerks like me to stay in Mexico, while Thailand makes it impossible for me to work legally here. I'm a farang wetback!
The below is an honest best effort opine included in emails and letters sent to both my Senators, my House representative, my state legislators, my governor and my local city and county representatives.
I and we are pro-Immigration, were on the fence, and were ostensibly acceptant that the majority of illegal immigrants are law-abiding productive members of our society. Yet having seen examples of mob rule and an implied complicity against the rule of law, open loyalty for other nations as well as harmful acts of intended intimidate seeking to harm the nations economy, this changed, not only my and wife’s, but, as well, our group’s, opinion on the subject entirely.
I now am unalterably opposed to unearned citizenship especially by illegal entry and or “planned” birth from illegal immigrants and or otherwise.
I would add if the Congress is intent on amnesty or some other smoke and mirror word of that end result, they should require a minimum of 3 years of Federal, State and or local Public community service work in addition to any other requirements they would add to this open the borders even wider plan.
I support a limited duration and absolute return to country of origin guest worker program and I forcefully support increasing legal immigration limits and streamline of the process as well.
Yet, at the same time, I would demand dramatically increasing enforcement on our borders and especially our internal border using our current immigration laws in a political will and advocacy for enforcement by Federal, State and local law enforcement and especially through screening by and of any publicly financed or subsidized institutions such as schools and so forth.
I seek a citizens redress and recourse of you, in a mad as hell, not going to take this anymore, moment, vented at an ever appearing impotent congress, demurred likewise equally by local and state leadership, whose low esteem and ratings among us citizens makes those of the President look popular.
I am a legal Greek immigrants grandson and as well as of Native American registry. My Thai wife of 27 years is a legal immigrant and both my neighbors, one a Canadian the other an Iranian, are, as well, legal Immigrants. We know and often socialize with numbers of others who are of many nationalities, including Columbian and Mexican, who are legal immigrants as well.
I, my wife, our neighbors, our immigrant friends, know personally the hardship of waiting and dealing, in both anger and frustration, with the often arduous and arbitrary legal immigration processes and procedures that are snail paced and error prone.
In experiencing that we do not appreciate nor will we accept being intimidated or threatened by these line cutting illegal immigrants who wave others nations flags, then, in clear pretense, now wave our American flag, advocate exclusively in non-English at their rallies while likewise advocating a harm intended boycotting of the American economy.
A series of acts that are clearly transparent as not being examples of Pro-American behaviors. Instead, these acts are its opposite. They are acts of self-interest pretenses for themselves and the countries from which they come. Countries, who cannot and will not do for them what they demand we do for them in this advocacy and complicity for mob rule, loyalty to others and lawlessness.
They act as if they had the ordained right, as illegal immigrants, or legal relatives of illegal immigrants, to be American citizens by simply breaking the law. As if our nation must be as unwilling to accept the rule of law and adhere to the abundant social apathy prevalent in the countries from which they have come and run away from in its unfairness and inequalities.
They assume, in these example of mob rule, disregard of the law, open expressive loyalties to other nations, willful disregard and acceptance for learning English and a willingness to harm the nations economy by boycotting, it is a mantra of Pro American expressions that show an innate equality and sameness in rights and privileges as the rest of us. Which it is absolutely and unquestionably does not.
We say, in votes, if we must, in response to that example of mob rule and disrespect for the law and open loyalty to other nations, in a mad as hell moment, give me your poor and huddled, LEGAL, masses, wanting to be Americans, for America, only!
Respectfully,
(21 signatures)
QUOTE
I and we are pro-Immigration, were on the fence, and were ostensibly acceptant that the majority of illegal immigrants are law-abiding productive members of our society. Yet having seen examples of mob rule and an implied complicity against the rule of law, open loyalty for other nations as well as harmful acts of intended intimidate seeking to harm the nations economy, this changed, not only my and wife’s, but, as well, our group’s, opinion on the subject entirely.
I now am unalterably opposed to unearned citizenship especially by illegal entry and or “planned” birth from illegal immigrants and or otherwise.
I would add if the Congress is intent on amnesty or some other smoke and mirror word of that end result, they should require a minimum of 3 years of Federal, State and or local Public community service work in addition to any other requirements they would add to this open the borders even wider plan.
I support a limited duration and absolute return to country of origin guest worker program and I forcefully support increasing legal immigration limits and streamline of the process as well.
Yet, at the same time, I would demand dramatically increasing enforcement on our borders and especially our internal border using our current immigration laws in a political will and advocacy for enforcement by Federal, State and local law enforcement and especially through screening by and of any publicly financed or subsidized institutions such as schools and so forth.
I seek a citizens redress and recourse of you, in a mad as hell, not going to take this anymore, moment, vented at an ever appearing impotent congress, demurred likewise equally by local and state leadership, whose low esteem and ratings among us citizens makes those of the President look popular.
I am a legal Greek immigrants grandson and as well as of Native American registry. My Thai wife of 27 years is a legal immigrant and both my neighbors, one a Canadian the other an Iranian, are, as well, legal Immigrants. We know and often socialize with numbers of others who are of many nationalities, including Columbian and Mexican, who are legal immigrants as well.
I, my wife, our neighbors, our immigrant friends, know personally the hardship of waiting and dealing, in both anger and frustration, with the often arduous and arbitrary legal immigration processes and procedures that are snail paced and error prone.
In experiencing that we do not appreciate nor will we accept being intimidated or threatened by these line cutting illegal immigrants who wave others nations flags, then, in clear pretense, now wave our American flag, advocate exclusively in non-English at their rallies while likewise advocating a harm intended boycotting of the American economy.
A series of acts that are clearly transparent as not being examples of Pro-American behaviors. Instead, these acts are its opposite. They are acts of self-interest pretenses for themselves and the countries from which they come. Countries, who cannot and will not do for them what they demand we do for them in this advocacy and complicity for mob rule, loyalty to others and lawlessness.
They act as if they had the ordained right, as illegal immigrants, or legal relatives of illegal immigrants, to be American citizens by simply breaking the law. As if our nation must be as unwilling to accept the rule of law and adhere to the abundant social apathy prevalent in the countries from which they have come and run away from in its unfairness and inequalities.
They assume, in these example of mob rule, disregard of the law, open expressive loyalties to other nations, willful disregard and acceptance for learning English and a willingness to harm the nations economy by boycotting, it is a mantra of Pro American expressions that show an innate equality and sameness in rights and privileges as the rest of us. Which it is absolutely and unquestionably does not.
We say, in votes, if we must, in response to that example of mob rule and disrespect for the law and open loyalty to other nations, in a mad as hell moment, give me your poor and huddled, LEGAL, masses, wanting to be Americans, for America, only!
Respectfully,
(21 signatures)
The "new" push from the left for this invasion is multiculturalism based? From an anthropological perspective all culture really is is food. But I think that the mythology that is at play now is simply semantic. They don't want a guest worker program, they want amnesty. Certain diversions have been made which speak of broader security and the like, but the truth is...They won't secure the border and they have the ability to..The facts are already there for the taking, of the 20 million only 2-4% are working at any given time, there aren't 20 million jobs that Americans wont do, so that puts the remaining memebers on the social dole. And any man of common sense knows that they will NOT enforce anything.
BUT the bigger problem here is Rule of Law! Our government is basically stating that mob rule trumps the rule of law. That any law may be broken if it is done in mass. But the main point is that foreigners, here illegally are petitioning our government to change laws against our will and rule of law. At what point does this not set off warning bells? I have already established-to some extent-that these are foreignly funded, highly organized collectivists, who disregard our rule of law, disrespect our soveriegnty, demand redress to their liking, intend to change the social landscape and are nationalisitcally dedicated to the nation of Mexico. What part of this don't people understand is wrong? Are we too fearful of inconvenience and too "fattened" by our luxury that we are just going to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that over the past twenty years we haven't been invaded? Seriously, with all the pro-war rhetoric and quotes thrown about by the administration, they simply believe by adopting the talking points of the collectivist left that this will suffice...?!?! and noone will notice?!?!?!?
In reviewing and reading and studying history thru the years, when I have come upon a transformative event I often wondered what it would be like at that time...In retrospect if x would have done y then this could have been easily averted. If "they" had only seen the writing on the wall a few years prior...etc. Now I know that if we allow our government to betray the rule of law, we will set in place the justification of civil disobediance for individual gains. Aristotle warned of this. At what point does blatant disregard for the rule of law end? It may not come tommorrow, or the next day, but when people begin to utter in unison "why should I have to obey this if our own government doesn't" and this idea is picked up in mass?!?!?! Enforcement will become trivial and unrenderable. So I say mark this moment in history, collect souvenirs, because what you are going to witness, however subtle and intangible now, is the slow unravelling of a civilization. Imagine 100 million people organizaing in the streets refusing to pay any taxes or demanding social welfare. And why shoudln't they, I mean even someone from another country can do this, why can't an American, right? I don't know about other people, but I can see the decay coming and I do not want to be an angry armchair "I told you so" type. Either Americans act now or the lose their soveriengty, it is that simple.
BUT the bigger problem here is Rule of Law! Our government is basically stating that mob rule trumps the rule of law. That any law may be broken if it is done in mass. But the main point is that foreigners, here illegally are petitioning our government to change laws against our will and rule of law. At what point does this not set off warning bells? I have already established-to some extent-that these are foreignly funded, highly organized collectivists, who disregard our rule of law, disrespect our soveriegnty, demand redress to their liking, intend to change the social landscape and are nationalisitcally dedicated to the nation of Mexico. What part of this don't people understand is wrong? Are we too fearful of inconvenience and too "fattened" by our luxury that we are just going to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that over the past twenty years we haven't been invaded? Seriously, with all the pro-war rhetoric and quotes thrown about by the administration, they simply believe by adopting the talking points of the collectivist left that this will suffice...?!?! and noone will notice?!?!?!?
In reviewing and reading and studying history thru the years, when I have come upon a transformative event I often wondered what it would be like at that time...In retrospect if x would have done y then this could have been easily averted. If "they" had only seen the writing on the wall a few years prior...etc. Now I know that if we allow our government to betray the rule of law, we will set in place the justification of civil disobediance for individual gains. Aristotle warned of this. At what point does blatant disregard for the rule of law end? It may not come tommorrow, or the next day, but when people begin to utter in unison "why should I have to obey this if our own government doesn't" and this idea is picked up in mass?!?!?! Enforcement will become trivial and unrenderable. So I say mark this moment in history, collect souvenirs, because what you are going to witness, however subtle and intangible now, is the slow unravelling of a civilization. Imagine 100 million people organizaing in the streets refusing to pay any taxes or demanding social welfare. And why shoudln't they, I mean even someone from another country can do this, why can't an American, right? I don't know about other people, but I can see the decay coming and I do not want to be an angry armchair "I told you so" type. Either Americans act now or the lose their soveriengty, it is that simple.
Please view! Please take a second to realize what is happening...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr87jW1XeJQ...rch=immigration
Check the videos on this page the first video is the direct link above:
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr87jW1XeJQ...rch=immigration
Check the videos on this page the first video is the direct link above:
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/
Current evidence of the reconquista Maywood California
California Town offers sanctuary to illegal aliens...
The town has voted in amendments which will make it illegal to enforce illegal immigration laws.
They also recently disbanded the traffic division stating "that the traffic officers were unfairly targeting illegals."
The town has plans to rename its elementary school after a Mexican President.
This town already has a 79% illegal Mexican population. 97% Hispanic.
This quote was disheartening to read, but I place it here as it illustrates my point:
“About 15 years before the Civil War, much of the American West was northern Mexico,” Bush says in the video. “The people who lived there weren’t called Latinos or Hispanics. They were Mexican citizens, until all that land became part of the United States.
“After that, many of them were treated as foreigners in their own land,” Bush adds.
[Immigrant Issues Are Personal for Bush, LA Times, 4/2/06]
California Town offers sanctuary to illegal aliens...
The town has voted in amendments which will make it illegal to enforce illegal immigration laws.
They also recently disbanded the traffic division stating "that the traffic officers were unfairly targeting illegals."
The town has plans to rename its elementary school after a Mexican President.
This town already has a 79% illegal Mexican population. 97% Hispanic.
This quote was disheartening to read, but I place it here as it illustrates my point:
“About 15 years before the Civil War, much of the American West was northern Mexico,” Bush says in the video. “The people who lived there weren’t called Latinos or Hispanics. They were Mexican citizens, until all that land became part of the United States.
“After that, many of them were treated as foreigners in their own land,” Bush adds.
[Immigrant Issues Are Personal for Bush, LA Times, 4/2/06]
Bush is a liberal ###### who has failed to defend our borders while they get us involved in a rag head civil war. They should all resign.
QUOTE (Mainecoons @ Apr 11 2006, 09:29 PM)
Bush is a liberal ###### who has failed to defend our borders while they get us involved in a rag head civil war. They should all resign.
Sigh,................Bush is nowhere near being a Liberal at all. He is a Federalist, who enjoys the power of the Federal government at the expense of the individual states. Just look at his legislation and what he has done. He has increased the scope AND power of the State. Yet he is not a Collectivist, nor leans in that direction.
therefor, he is not a leftist "so called" liberal, or a right wing Classic Liberal/Libertarian/Individualist. He is a Federalist, pure and simple. Please get your facts straight. Please?
QUOTE (John L @ Apr 12 2006, 01:40 AM)
Sigh,................Bush is nowhere near being a Liberal at all. He is a Federalist, who enjoys the power of the Federal government at the expense of the individual states. Just look at his legislation and what he has done. He has increased the scope AND power of the State. Yet he is not a Collectivist, nor leans in that direction.
therefor, he is not a leftist "so called" liberal, or a right wing Classic Liberal/Libertarian/Individualist. He is a Federalist, pure and simple. Please get your facts straight. Please?
I am glad you mentioned this. This is also precisely a good way of describing a large majority of the rest of the party. But also may be the reason that this immigration is issue is being dealt with in such a detached and disconnected manner. They seem to be functioning as internationalists.therefor, he is not a leftist "so called" liberal, or a right wing Classic Liberal/Libertarian/Individualist. He is a Federalist, pure and simple. Please get your facts straight. Please?
QUOTE
In short, we have gone full circle from a sovereign independent republic with a free citizenry as its power base to a multi-transnational dependent conglomerate with a subject population that has no longer has any meaningful political power, participation, or representation and is run by an elite political class that freely violates its own laws and deliberately ignores their legal responsibilities as well as their sworn oaths of office. In this way, we the people no longer have a representative government and thus the government in power is both criminal and illegitimate across the political spectrum. Since redress is impossible, only another revolution can solve this problem. This is exactly the inevitable political dilemma Founding Fathers such as Thomas Jefferson predicted we would one day have to face just as his generation did when they had to fight for their freedom and independence against another dictatorial tyrannical elite.
CA
Civil war as I present with the title of this thread I mean as reformation, a sort of revolution from which, amidst the chaos several other things can be fixed as well. But I am continuously alarmed by how many people are dismissive of the current conditions facing our nation. How apathy and luxury have turned us into loathers and arm chair complainers. Haven't we seen this somewhere before?
"The warlike states of antiquity, Greece, Macedonia, and Rome, educated a race of soldiers; exercised their bodies, disciplined their courage, multiplied their forces by regular evolutions, and converted the iron which they possessed into strong and serviceable weapons. But this superiority insensibly declined with their laws and manners; and the feeble policy of Constantine and his successors armed and instructed, for the ruin of the empire, the rude valour of the Barbarian mercenaries."
- Gibbon
"The warlike states of antiquity, Greece, Macedonia, and Rome, educated a race of soldiers; exercised their bodies, disciplined their courage, multiplied their forces by regular evolutions, and converted the iron which they possessed into strong and serviceable weapons. But this superiority insensibly declined with their laws and manners; and the feeble policy of Constantine and his successors armed and instructed, for the ruin of the empire, the rude valour of the Barbarian mercenaries."
- Gibbon
The Real Mexican Revolution
by J. R. Nyquist
In the Winter 2005/06 Edition of The National Interest, in an article titled “Mexico’s Wasted Chance,” Fredo Arias-King laments the failure of Mexican President Vicente Fox. Why did Fox fail? Why did he compromise his reforms? The key may be found in Fox’s appointment of Jorge Castaneda as Mexico’s foreign minister. This is the same Jorge Castaneda who assisted communists like Fidel Castro and Daniel Ortega in the 1980s. This is the same Jorge Castaneda who called for the destabilization of the U.S. economy through a debt moratorium, who also called for legal measures against Americans in Mexico. It is no wonder that Foreign Minister Castaneda abrogated Mexico’s mutual defense pact with the United States and, according to Arias-King, “flew with Fox to Nicaragua to publicly embrace [Daniel] Ortega, who was attempting to return to power.”
The linkages between Fox and Ortega and Castro are suggestive. More recently, the frontrunner in Mexico’s upcoming presidential election has been publicly accused of accepting secret financial support from Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez (i.e., a rising communist dictator). One might admit, with regard to Mexican succession, that there is a pattern. And this pattern takes on greater importance in light of America’s illegal immigration crisis, especially since the illegal immigrants are being politically organized. A Nationwide General Immigrant Strike has been scheduled for May Day. The Immigrant Solidarity Network has laid out its plan: “We are calling [for] No Work, No School, No Sales, and No Buying, and also to have rallies around symbols of economic trade in your areas [on] May 1st to protest the anti-immigrant bill.” What is the ultimate objective of the strike? “We will settle for nothing less than full amnesty and dignity for the millions of undocumented workers presently in the U.S.”
And what happens if the protestors succeed?
When all immigrants are to be amnestied as citizens with full rights to social services, the United States will be transformed into a socialist republic. Once enfranchised, the newly minted immigrant voters will undoubtedly favor a transfer of wealth from the American middle class to a dominant underclass. Donations for this outcome are to be sent (where else?) to “The Peace Center/ActionLA,” 8124 West 3rd Street in Los Angeles. In other words, the immigrant strike is being organized by the socialists of the anti-war movement; by the Worker’s World Party and ANSWER, described as “anti-American, anti-war, anti-capitalism, pro-Saddam, pro-North Korea….”
On May 5, 1984, when the global struggle between communism and capitalism was in the spotlight, Mexican publisher and journalist Maneul Moreno Rivas offered his thoughts to the Arizona Southern District of Rotary International. He spoke of sinister “parades and demonstrations that were organized simultaneously in almost all the cities of the United States.” He spoke of revolutionary warfare and “the tremendous economic crisis” that was destroying Mexico. “In spite of the fact that you have immediate and lengthy information … there is a tremendous confusion, a lack of complete and truthful understanding in the mind of the citizens of the United States as to what is really going on….”
Manuel Moreno Rivas was speaking at a time when communism was in the open, backed by the power of the Soviet Union. Now this power is hidden. And it has done surprising things, gaining momentum since 1991. Cuba is a fortress of Communism, he explained. “In the course of the last 25 years, Cuba was converted into the largest arsenal of Latin America.” The Cubans have been trained to spread terror and revolution. But, he said, “The advance of communism in Mexico is an altogether different story. The tactics and methods utilized by the Kremlin to make of Mexico a communist country, have been more subtle, more intelligent, more prolonged….”
Immediately following the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, Moscow sent agents into Mexico. These agents, according to Rivas, took an “active and important part in every significant issue of Mexican politics.” Hundreds of operatives penetrated the main political organizations and movements of the country. Among Moscow’s agents, said Rivas, “you will find high ranking government heads, bright and educated financiers….” The Russians, he explained, “know the psychology of the Mexicans and how they react to different incentives and pressures. They make, through their complete and well-informed dossiers, specific personal studies of the men in power and of those important men who wish to ascend…. Once in power, those native politicians take the role of puppets whose strings are pulled efficiently from the desks of the Russian embassy.”
One may question whether such a thing is possible. But we know, as a matter of record, that other nations have succumbed to this type of infiltration. Manuel Moreno Rivas tells us that the “Russians knew, when they began their work in Mexico, that the most effective weapon to attain their ends was the power to educate. Since the middle 1930s they were able to place in the highest posts … the most convinced and able Marxists….” Teacher education was the strategic high ground, and it was taken without resistance. “Thus,” said Rivas, “for generations, the children of Mexico have received a biased education. They have been taught to hate the imperialist Americans as the source of all evil and to worship communistic heroes.”
Mexican textbooks give favorable mention to Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara. According to Rivas, “Most of the teachers in Mexico belong to the Communist Party.” All teachers need not be communists, of course, since any deviation from the revolutionary curriculum “is punished by immediate destitution.” When Manuel Moreno Rivas was speaking before the Rotary International, Mexico’s Minister of Education was Augustin Reyes Heroles, an open communist militant. In many ways, of course, Mexico has been a communist regime in practice (if not in theory). The Mexican state has owned the country’s railroads, airlines, power grid, telephone company, fishing, mining and sugar industries, iron and steel foundries, the oil industry, etc. Mexico is a country in which land has been seized for the creation of collective farms. “You are well aware of the results of such practices,” said Rivas to his American listeners. “The peasants abandon the land and become braceros, illegally crossing the border of the United States in an effort to work and send money [home] so that their families may survive.”
According to Rivas, Mexico’s presidents have been KGB agents since the days of Luis Echeverria and his successor, Jose Lopez Portillo. In accordance with Russia’s long-range plan, the main policy of Mexico’s corrupt presidents has been to keep Mexico destitute. This, in turn, forces millions of Mexicans across the border into the U.S. “The big giant is sick,” said Echeverria in a 1984 speech. “[T]he enormous idol that holds the capitalistic structure has clay feet…. The cancer cells that we have injected in his bloodstream are working steadily and efficiently in an organism that is already corroded….”
As we watch illegal aliens take to the streets, as we witness the paralysis of American institutions in the face of foreign intimidation and socialist propaganda, we should recall Manuel Moreno Rivas’s final question: “How far have Russian agents advanced in the penetration and infiltration of your schools and universities, of your churches, of your labor unions, of your political parties, of your media and of your civic organizations?” No one today would dare to make an answer. Rivas further warned, “When you see civic and religious and racist conglomerates unite under a single command and stage parades and demonstrations on the same day and the same hour in every important town and city in the United States … you can appraise the magnificent organization that it takes to launch such a campaign….”
Welcome to the real Mexican Revolution.
by J. R. Nyquist
In the Winter 2005/06 Edition of The National Interest, in an article titled “Mexico’s Wasted Chance,” Fredo Arias-King laments the failure of Mexican President Vicente Fox. Why did Fox fail? Why did he compromise his reforms? The key may be found in Fox’s appointment of Jorge Castaneda as Mexico’s foreign minister. This is the same Jorge Castaneda who assisted communists like Fidel Castro and Daniel Ortega in the 1980s. This is the same Jorge Castaneda who called for the destabilization of the U.S. economy through a debt moratorium, who also called for legal measures against Americans in Mexico. It is no wonder that Foreign Minister Castaneda abrogated Mexico’s mutual defense pact with the United States and, according to Arias-King, “flew with Fox to Nicaragua to publicly embrace [Daniel] Ortega, who was attempting to return to power.”
The linkages between Fox and Ortega and Castro are suggestive. More recently, the frontrunner in Mexico’s upcoming presidential election has been publicly accused of accepting secret financial support from Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez (i.e., a rising communist dictator). One might admit, with regard to Mexican succession, that there is a pattern. And this pattern takes on greater importance in light of America’s illegal immigration crisis, especially since the illegal immigrants are being politically organized. A Nationwide General Immigrant Strike has been scheduled for May Day. The Immigrant Solidarity Network has laid out its plan: “We are calling [for] No Work, No School, No Sales, and No Buying, and also to have rallies around symbols of economic trade in your areas [on] May 1st to protest the anti-immigrant bill.” What is the ultimate objective of the strike? “We will settle for nothing less than full amnesty and dignity for the millions of undocumented workers presently in the U.S.”
And what happens if the protestors succeed?
When all immigrants are to be amnestied as citizens with full rights to social services, the United States will be transformed into a socialist republic. Once enfranchised, the newly minted immigrant voters will undoubtedly favor a transfer of wealth from the American middle class to a dominant underclass. Donations for this outcome are to be sent (where else?) to “The Peace Center/ActionLA,” 8124 West 3rd Street in Los Angeles. In other words, the immigrant strike is being organized by the socialists of the anti-war movement; by the Worker’s World Party and ANSWER, described as “anti-American, anti-war, anti-capitalism, pro-Saddam, pro-North Korea….”
On May 5, 1984, when the global struggle between communism and capitalism was in the spotlight, Mexican publisher and journalist Maneul Moreno Rivas offered his thoughts to the Arizona Southern District of Rotary International. He spoke of sinister “parades and demonstrations that were organized simultaneously in almost all the cities of the United States.” He spoke of revolutionary warfare and “the tremendous economic crisis” that was destroying Mexico. “In spite of the fact that you have immediate and lengthy information … there is a tremendous confusion, a lack of complete and truthful understanding in the mind of the citizens of the United States as to what is really going on….”
Manuel Moreno Rivas was speaking at a time when communism was in the open, backed by the power of the Soviet Union. Now this power is hidden. And it has done surprising things, gaining momentum since 1991. Cuba is a fortress of Communism, he explained. “In the course of the last 25 years, Cuba was converted into the largest arsenal of Latin America.” The Cubans have been trained to spread terror and revolution. But, he said, “The advance of communism in Mexico is an altogether different story. The tactics and methods utilized by the Kremlin to make of Mexico a communist country, have been more subtle, more intelligent, more prolonged….”
Immediately following the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, Moscow sent agents into Mexico. These agents, according to Rivas, took an “active and important part in every significant issue of Mexican politics.” Hundreds of operatives penetrated the main political organizations and movements of the country. Among Moscow’s agents, said Rivas, “you will find high ranking government heads, bright and educated financiers….” The Russians, he explained, “know the psychology of the Mexicans and how they react to different incentives and pressures. They make, through their complete and well-informed dossiers, specific personal studies of the men in power and of those important men who wish to ascend…. Once in power, those native politicians take the role of puppets whose strings are pulled efficiently from the desks of the Russian embassy.”
One may question whether such a thing is possible. But we know, as a matter of record, that other nations have succumbed to this type of infiltration. Manuel Moreno Rivas tells us that the “Russians knew, when they began their work in Mexico, that the most effective weapon to attain their ends was the power to educate. Since the middle 1930s they were able to place in the highest posts … the most convinced and able Marxists….” Teacher education was the strategic high ground, and it was taken without resistance. “Thus,” said Rivas, “for generations, the children of Mexico have received a biased education. They have been taught to hate the imperialist Americans as the source of all evil and to worship communistic heroes.”
Mexican textbooks give favorable mention to Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara. According to Rivas, “Most of the teachers in Mexico belong to the Communist Party.” All teachers need not be communists, of course, since any deviation from the revolutionary curriculum “is punished by immediate destitution.” When Manuel Moreno Rivas was speaking before the Rotary International, Mexico’s Minister of Education was Augustin Reyes Heroles, an open communist militant. In many ways, of course, Mexico has been a communist regime in practice (if not in theory). The Mexican state has owned the country’s railroads, airlines, power grid, telephone company, fishing, mining and sugar industries, iron and steel foundries, the oil industry, etc. Mexico is a country in which land has been seized for the creation of collective farms. “You are well aware of the results of such practices,” said Rivas to his American listeners. “The peasants abandon the land and become braceros, illegally crossing the border of the United States in an effort to work and send money [home] so that their families may survive.”
According to Rivas, Mexico’s presidents have been KGB agents since the days of Luis Echeverria and his successor, Jose Lopez Portillo. In accordance with Russia’s long-range plan, the main policy of Mexico’s corrupt presidents has been to keep Mexico destitute. This, in turn, forces millions of Mexicans across the border into the U.S. “The big giant is sick,” said Echeverria in a 1984 speech. “[T]he enormous idol that holds the capitalistic structure has clay feet…. The cancer cells that we have injected in his bloodstream are working steadily and efficiently in an organism that is already corroded….”
As we watch illegal aliens take to the streets, as we witness the paralysis of American institutions in the face of foreign intimidation and socialist propaganda, we should recall Manuel Moreno Rivas’s final question: “How far have Russian agents advanced in the penetration and infiltration of your schools and universities, of your churches, of your labor unions, of your political parties, of your media and of your civic organizations?” No one today would dare to make an answer. Rivas further warned, “When you see civic and religious and racist conglomerates unite under a single command and stage parades and demonstrations on the same day and the same hour in every important town and city in the United States … you can appraise the magnificent organization that it takes to launch such a campaign….”
Welcome to the real Mexican Revolution.
Got a Link GL? I can't get on to Blackhole without doing same to you. It is required, you know? 
JR article:
http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/g.../2006/0414.html
Talking points when you call your Senator and Representative:
*
Enforcement and attrition are the solutions, not AMNESTY. Pro-amnesty supporters claim the only solution to the crisis is legalization because mass deportation is not feasible. Actually enforcement of existing laws is the only solution as rewarding illegal aliens will trigger even more mass illegal migration. The priority of elected officials must be citizens, not corporations, not illegal aliens and not organizations. The problem must be fixed first and the problem of millions of illegal aliens can be dealt with by Attrition. Once laws are enforced most illegal aliens will return to their homeland.
*
Illegal migration is not a human right. Pro-amnesty supporters portray the plight of illegal aliens as a human rights issue. However, violating the borders of a sovereign nation is not a right in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states: "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." Yet human rights advocates vociferously and erroneously claim such a right without justification as such a right is not provided in the widely accepted human rights declaration. See Rights.
*
Enforcement and AMNESTY are incompatible. AMNESTY is rewarding law breakers and enforcement is punitive and are mutually exclusive. It is totally hypocrisy to claim one is for AMNESTY but against illegal immigration. Our borders must be secured. Armed Mexican military must be prevented from crossing our borders. Our government must be forced to refuse to accept fraudulent documents used by illegal aliens.
*
It's an AMNESTY. The open border elites claim the guest worker bills are not amnesty because they do not require payment of a token fine before eligibility for permanent residency (green card) or because they do not offer a path to citizenship. That is a flat-out lie. The laws governing illegal immigration bar legal reentry into the United States for several years before eligibility is restored. A token fine is a thinly disguised waiver of the penalty. Amnesty is defined as waiving of a penalty. Illegal aliens are subject to deportation. The various guest worker bills waives the deportation penalty. Duh, it's an AMNESTY.
*
Guest worker programs have been world-wide failures. Many of the immigrant problems in England such as the London bombings and French Muslim riots are a lingering result of non-assimilation from post-WWII guest worker programs. The US Bracero program was a failure. Even many pro-illegal immigration ethnic advocates admit guest worker programs are failures. This aspect has received little debate, yet the Senate is poised to embark on a direction that promises huge future problems of non-assimilation and radicalization of third-class workers.
*
Guest workers are permanent. Pro-illegal invasion supporters tout the program as temporary, but that is another flat-out lie. Our immigration programs are riff with facts proving that foreign nationals, once here, do not return to their homeland.
*
Guest worker programs are a threat to homeland security. Senators should know this, but apparently are prepared to ignore this key problem with any guest worker program. The one key question Senators are unwilling and unprepared to answer is who will do the background checks on the illegal aliens participants and new guest workers? The fact is the Department of Homeland Security is utterly incapable of carrying out this vital function.
*
Guest workers mean more unemployed and underemployed Americans. The continued mass influx of foreign worker who work for less means the continued displacement of legal American workers and a further degradation of benefits for American workers. The current guest worker proposals include massive increases in H-1B visas indicating that the true intent of elites is to flood all industries with cheap foreign labor. American workers in all industries will be under further wage depression and loss of benefits.
*
Guest worker amnesty means more illegal migration. History has clearly shown that amnesties cause more illegal migration. After the huge 1986 amnesty which was supposedly 'the last amnesty' the rate of illegal immigration exploded to the current level of upwards of 20 million illegal aliens in the US today. See "Chief Administrator of the 1986 Amnesty Speaks Out Against Repeating a Failed Policy."
Citizen action is urgently needed!!
http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/g.../2006/0414.html
Talking points when you call your Senator and Representative:
*
Enforcement and attrition are the solutions, not AMNESTY. Pro-amnesty supporters claim the only solution to the crisis is legalization because mass deportation is not feasible. Actually enforcement of existing laws is the only solution as rewarding illegal aliens will trigger even more mass illegal migration. The priority of elected officials must be citizens, not corporations, not illegal aliens and not organizations. The problem must be fixed first and the problem of millions of illegal aliens can be dealt with by Attrition. Once laws are enforced most illegal aliens will return to their homeland.
*
Illegal migration is not a human right. Pro-amnesty supporters portray the plight of illegal aliens as a human rights issue. However, violating the borders of a sovereign nation is not a right in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states: "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." Yet human rights advocates vociferously and erroneously claim such a right without justification as such a right is not provided in the widely accepted human rights declaration. See Rights.
*
Enforcement and AMNESTY are incompatible. AMNESTY is rewarding law breakers and enforcement is punitive and are mutually exclusive. It is totally hypocrisy to claim one is for AMNESTY but against illegal immigration. Our borders must be secured. Armed Mexican military must be prevented from crossing our borders. Our government must be forced to refuse to accept fraudulent documents used by illegal aliens.
*
It's an AMNESTY. The open border elites claim the guest worker bills are not amnesty because they do not require payment of a token fine before eligibility for permanent residency (green card) or because they do not offer a path to citizenship. That is a flat-out lie. The laws governing illegal immigration bar legal reentry into the United States for several years before eligibility is restored. A token fine is a thinly disguised waiver of the penalty. Amnesty is defined as waiving of a penalty. Illegal aliens are subject to deportation. The various guest worker bills waives the deportation penalty. Duh, it's an AMNESTY.
*
Guest worker programs have been world-wide failures. Many of the immigrant problems in England such as the London bombings and French Muslim riots are a lingering result of non-assimilation from post-WWII guest worker programs. The US Bracero program was a failure. Even many pro-illegal immigration ethnic advocates admit guest worker programs are failures. This aspect has received little debate, yet the Senate is poised to embark on a direction that promises huge future problems of non-assimilation and radicalization of third-class workers.
*
Guest workers are permanent. Pro-illegal invasion supporters tout the program as temporary, but that is another flat-out lie. Our immigration programs are riff with facts proving that foreign nationals, once here, do not return to their homeland.
*
Guest worker programs are a threat to homeland security. Senators should know this, but apparently are prepared to ignore this key problem with any guest worker program. The one key question Senators are unwilling and unprepared to answer is who will do the background checks on the illegal aliens participants and new guest workers? The fact is the Department of Homeland Security is utterly incapable of carrying out this vital function.
*
Guest workers mean more unemployed and underemployed Americans. The continued mass influx of foreign worker who work for less means the continued displacement of legal American workers and a further degradation of benefits for American workers. The current guest worker proposals include massive increases in H-1B visas indicating that the true intent of elites is to flood all industries with cheap foreign labor. American workers in all industries will be under further wage depression and loss of benefits.
*
Guest worker amnesty means more illegal migration. History has clearly shown that amnesties cause more illegal migration. After the huge 1986 amnesty which was supposedly 'the last amnesty' the rate of illegal immigration exploded to the current level of upwards of 20 million illegal aliens in the US today. See "Chief Administrator of the 1986 Amnesty Speaks Out Against Repeating a Failed Policy."
Citizen action is urgently needed!!
that Jesus pic is sick, man. I keep looking at it when I scroll down...any chance of persuading you to take it off?
We wanted cheap labor but we got human beings.
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060328-102545-2371r.htm
The article in case link goes down is from the Washington Times By Tony Blankley
March 29, 2006
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060328-102545-2371r.htm
The article in case link goes down is from the Washington Times By Tony Blankley
March 29, 2006
QUOTE
It is lucky America has more than two centuries of mostly calm experience with self-government. We are going to need to fall back on that invaluable patrimony if the immigration debate continues as it has started this season. The Senate is attempting to legislate into the teeth of the will of the American public. The Senate Judiciary Committeemen — and probably a majority of the Senate — are convinced that they know that the American people don't know what is best for them.
National polling data could not be more emphatic — and has been so for decades. Gallup Poll (March 27) finds 80 percent of the public wants the federal government to get tougher on illegal immigration. A Quinnipiac University Poll (March 3) finds 62 percent oppose making it easier for illegals to become citizens (72 percent in that poll don't even want illegals to be permitted to have driver's licenses). Time Magazine's recent poll (Jan. 24-26) found 75 percent favor "major penalties" on employers of illegals, 70 percent believe illegals increase the likelihood of terrorism and 57 percent would use military force at the Mexican-American border.
An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll (March 10-13) found 59 percent opposing a guest-worker proposal, and 71 percent would more likely vote for a congressional candidate who would tighten immigration controls.
An IQ Research poll (March 10) found 92 percent saying that securing the U.S. border should be a top priority of the White House and Congress.
Yet, according to a National Journal survey of Congress, 73 percent of Republican and 77 percent of Democratic congressmen and senators say they would support guest-worker legislation.
I commend to all those presumptuous senators and congressmen the sardonic and wise words of Edmund Burke in his 1792 letter to Sir Hercules Langrishe: "No man will assert seriously, that when people are of a turbulent spirit, the best way to keep them in order is to furnish them with something substantial to complain of." The senators should remember that they are American senators, not Roman proconsuls. Nor is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee some latter-day Praetor Maximus.
But if they would be dictators, it would be nice if they could at least be wise (until such time as the people can electorally forcefully project with a violent pedal thrust their regrettable backsides out of town). It was gut-wrenching (which in my case is a substantial event) to watch the senators prattle on in their idle ignorance concerning the manifold economic benefits that will accrue to the body politic if we can just cram a few million more uneducated illegals into the country. ( I guess ignorance loves company.) Beyond the Senate last week, in a remarkable example of intellectual integrity (in the face of the editorial positions of their newspapers) the chief economic columnists for the New York Times and The Washington Post — Paul Krugman and Robert Samuelson, respectively — laid out the sad facts regarding the economics of the matter. Senators, congressmen and Mr. President, please take note.
Regarding the Senate's and the president's guest-worker proposals, The Post's Robert Samuelson writes: "Gosh, they're all bad ideas ... We'd be importing poverty. This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking, many are. Nor is it because they don't assimilate, many do. But they generally don't go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished ... [It] is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico ... The most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers ? Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits ... [Moreover], [i]t's a myth that the U.S. economy 'needs' more poor immigrants.
"The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 4.9 percent of the labor force." (For all Mr. Samuelson's supporting statistics, see his Washington Post column of March 22, from which this is taken.) Likewise, a few days later, the very liberal and often partisan Paul Krugman of the New York Times courageously wrote : "Unfortunately, low-skill immigrants don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of the [government] benefits they receive ? As the Swiss writer Max Frisch wrote about his own country's experience with immigration, 'We wanted a labor force, but human beings came.' " Mr. Krugman also observed — citing a leading Harvard study — "that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration. That's why it's intellectually dishonest to say, as President Bush does, that immigrants 'do jobs that Americans will not do.' The willingness of Americans to do a job depends on how much that job pays — and the reason some jobs pay too little to attract native-born Americans is competition from poorly paid immigrants." Thusly do the two leading economic writers for the nation's two leading liberal newspapers summarily debunk the economic underpinning of the president's and the Senate's immigration proposals.
Under such circumstances, advocates of guest-worker/amnesty bills will find it frustratingly hard to defend their arrogant plans by their preferred tactic of slandering those who disagree with them as racist, nativist and xenophobic.
When the slandered ones include not only The Washington Post and the New York Times, but about 70 percent of the public, it is not only bad manners, but bad politics.
The public demand to protect our borders will triumph sooner or later. And, the more brazen the opposing politicians, the sooner will come the triumph.
So legislate on, you proud and foolish senators — and hasten your political demise.
National polling data could not be more emphatic — and has been so for decades. Gallup Poll (March 27) finds 80 percent of the public wants the federal government to get tougher on illegal immigration. A Quinnipiac University Poll (March 3) finds 62 percent oppose making it easier for illegals to become citizens (72 percent in that poll don't even want illegals to be permitted to have driver's licenses). Time Magazine's recent poll (Jan. 24-26) found 75 percent favor "major penalties" on employers of illegals, 70 percent believe illegals increase the likelihood of terrorism and 57 percent would use military force at the Mexican-American border.
An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll (March 10-13) found 59 percent opposing a guest-worker proposal, and 71 percent would more likely vote for a congressional candidate who would tighten immigration controls.
An IQ Research poll (March 10) found 92 percent saying that securing the U.S. border should be a top priority of the White House and Congress.
Yet, according to a National Journal survey of Congress, 73 percent of Republican and 77 percent of Democratic congressmen and senators say they would support guest-worker legislation.
I commend to all those presumptuous senators and congressmen the sardonic and wise words of Edmund Burke in his 1792 letter to Sir Hercules Langrishe: "No man will assert seriously, that when people are of a turbulent spirit, the best way to keep them in order is to furnish them with something substantial to complain of." The senators should remember that they are American senators, not Roman proconsuls. Nor is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee some latter-day Praetor Maximus.
But if they would be dictators, it would be nice if they could at least be wise (until such time as the people can electorally forcefully project with a violent pedal thrust their regrettable backsides out of town). It was gut-wrenching (which in my case is a substantial event) to watch the senators prattle on in their idle ignorance concerning the manifold economic benefits that will accrue to the body politic if we can just cram a few million more uneducated illegals into the country. ( I guess ignorance loves company.) Beyond the Senate last week, in a remarkable example of intellectual integrity (in the face of the editorial positions of their newspapers) the chief economic columnists for the New York Times and The Washington Post — Paul Krugman and Robert Samuelson, respectively — laid out the sad facts regarding the economics of the matter. Senators, congressmen and Mr. President, please take note.
Regarding the Senate's and the president's guest-worker proposals, The Post's Robert Samuelson writes: "Gosh, they're all bad ideas ... We'd be importing poverty. This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking, many are. Nor is it because they don't assimilate, many do. But they generally don't go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished ... [It] is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico ... The most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers ? Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits ... [Moreover], [i]t's a myth that the U.S. economy 'needs' more poor immigrants.
"The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 4.9 percent of the labor force." (For all Mr. Samuelson's supporting statistics, see his Washington Post column of March 22, from which this is taken.) Likewise, a few days later, the very liberal and often partisan Paul Krugman of the New York Times courageously wrote : "Unfortunately, low-skill immigrants don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of the [government] benefits they receive ? As the Swiss writer Max Frisch wrote about his own country's experience with immigration, 'We wanted a labor force, but human beings came.' " Mr. Krugman also observed — citing a leading Harvard study — "that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration. That's why it's intellectually dishonest to say, as President Bush does, that immigrants 'do jobs that Americans will not do.' The willingness of Americans to do a job depends on how much that job pays — and the reason some jobs pay too little to attract native-born Americans is competition from poorly paid immigrants." Thusly do the two leading economic writers for the nation's two leading liberal newspapers summarily debunk the economic underpinning of the president's and the Senate's immigration proposals.
Under such circumstances, advocates of guest-worker/amnesty bills will find it frustratingly hard to defend their arrogant plans by their preferred tactic of slandering those who disagree with them as racist, nativist and xenophobic.
When the slandered ones include not only The Washington Post and the New York Times, but about 70 percent of the public, it is not only bad manners, but bad politics.
The public demand to protect our borders will triumph sooner or later. And, the more brazen the opposing politicians, the sooner will come the triumph.
So legislate on, you proud and foolish senators — and hasten your political demise.
So we can overturn the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, defeat Hitler, lead the world in scientific discoveries, have the strongest economy on the planet, but we can't deport law breakers? At what cost is rule of law anyways. If my government cannot deport law breakers than this is an invitation for anarchy.
Below is an article quoting Bush stating "Massive deportation of the people here is not going to work". How is the American public supposed to trust our government after this?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/24/D8H6GU60B.html
Below is an article quoting Bush stating "Massive deportation of the people here is not going to work". How is the American public supposed to trust our government after this?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/24/D8H6GU60B.html
The Mexican Nationalist Socialists are planning their anti-US pro illegal immigration assembly for May 1rst. Ever wonder the significance of using this day? Check this link:
http://www.marxists.org/subject/mayday/index.htm
The 3 major forces behind the illegal aliens are MEChA,Atzlan and Raza.
Get information here:
http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
Recall link for the Mayor of embattled LA:
http://www.lawatchdog.com/KissLAgoodby6329.html
Former Mexican president Zadillo addressing a Chicago audience making declarations about the Mexican border:
http://americanpatrol.com/WMV/zedilloaffirmedincontext01.wmv
A redux/alternate link of the atzlan montage with audio from the rally organizers:
http://lawatchdog.net/videoclips/aztlan_caps.wmv
http://www.americanpatrol.com/WMV/060403-D...rection-56K.wmv
The May Day Mayday article:
http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review...s/s_446855.html
If it goes down:
Yeah I find the situation in which he was betrayed rather disgusting as well.
http://www.marxists.org/subject/mayday/index.htm
The 3 major forces behind the illegal aliens are MEChA,Atzlan and Raza.
Get information here:
http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
Recall link for the Mayor of embattled LA:
http://www.lawatchdog.com/KissLAgoodby6329.html
Former Mexican president Zadillo addressing a Chicago audience making declarations about the Mexican border:
http://americanpatrol.com/WMV/zedilloaffirmedincontext01.wmv
A redux/alternate link of the atzlan montage with audio from the rally organizers:
http://lawatchdog.net/videoclips/aztlan_caps.wmv
http://www.americanpatrol.com/WMV/060403-D...rection-56K.wmv
The May Day Mayday article:
http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review...s/s_446855.html
If it goes down:
QUOTE
A May Day mayday
Subscribe
By Dimitri Vassilaros
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, April 24, 2006
Armando Navarro is on the verge of doing more to end illegal immigration in America than anyone in the Bush administration. (Speaking of damning with faint praise.) But Mr. Navarro does not know it.
Even when he candidly admits that the invasion of illegal aliens will not slow even if every illegal now in America qualifies for amnesty.
Mr. Navarro, a University of California, Riverside, professor and coordinator of the National Alliance for Human Rights, is organizing an international boycott of American goods and services on May Day to pressure this republic to instantly morph the 11 million-plus illegal aliens here into legal ones.
His organization and others are asking immigrants in America to boycott work, school and community activities to intimidate the U.S. government with a show of economic and political force by "undocumented workers" and their advocates.
Latin American countries also will tell their citizens not to buy American goods, he says. It's to demonstrate international support for illegals demanding American citizenship.
"We are going to show power with incredible marches to be in concert with the struggles with immigrants in America," Navarro said when we spoke on Thursday. "We want to create multiple pressure points for Congress and the president. No other group in history did this much. Not even Martin Luther King Jr. Not even he can claim that."
True, but the Rev. King appealed to the best in Americans. He did not try to intimidate. No one waved Mexican flags during the 1963 march on Washington.
Navarro also seems to be somewhat of a security expert. "The borders cannot be secured as long as the United States needs cheap labor," he said. "It is not going to cease as long as Mexico and other Latin American countries struggle. As long as there are inequalities the influx of people will continue."
Remember that the next time President Bush or any other politician in the Beltway says that amnesty for illegals in America will solve the illegal immigration problem. It might alleviate the problem, for a while, but not eradicate it, Navarro said. "It's like the Dutch boy and the dike, only he could not plug all the pressure points."
The Mexican minimum wage -- $4 or 42 pesos a day -- is another pressure point, Navarro says.
"Ask them why they are crossing and they will say there is no work where they live; that they cannot survive on the minimum wage," he says. "The idea of coming to this country and making $10 to $20 an hour is unbelievable for them."
And it will be unbelievable if America is not frightened by this international naked challenge to its sovereignty. The only thing more galling than 11 million foreigners who are violating the law and yet want, no, make that demand , American citizenship is that other nations also will be demanding it.
If that does not motivate every American to reclaim this country then all is lost. And get used to virtual mob rule when policy in Washington is based on how many protesters march for the cause du jour.
Let's hope the boycott is an international success -- but only if it awakens this sleeping giant so it can reclaim its identity before every American is forced to learn Spanish and the lyrics to the Internationale, the anthem of workers around the world. Especially the Third World.
Subscribe
By Dimitri Vassilaros
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, April 24, 2006
Armando Navarro is on the verge of doing more to end illegal immigration in America than anyone in the Bush administration. (Speaking of damning with faint praise.) But Mr. Navarro does not know it.
Even when he candidly admits that the invasion of illegal aliens will not slow even if every illegal now in America qualifies for amnesty.
Mr. Navarro, a University of California, Riverside, professor and coordinator of the National Alliance for Human Rights, is organizing an international boycott of American goods and services on May Day to pressure this republic to instantly morph the 11 million-plus illegal aliens here into legal ones.
His organization and others are asking immigrants in America to boycott work, school and community activities to intimidate the U.S. government with a show of economic and political force by "undocumented workers" and their advocates.
Latin American countries also will tell their citizens not to buy American goods, he says. It's to demonstrate international support for illegals demanding American citizenship.
"We are going to show power with incredible marches to be in concert with the struggles with immigrants in America," Navarro said when we spoke on Thursday. "We want to create multiple pressure points for Congress and the president. No other group in history did this much. Not even Martin Luther King Jr. Not even he can claim that."
True, but the Rev. King appealed to the best in Americans. He did not try to intimidate. No one waved Mexican flags during the 1963 march on Washington.
Navarro also seems to be somewhat of a security expert. "The borders cannot be secured as long as the United States needs cheap labor," he said. "It is not going to cease as long as Mexico and other Latin American countries struggle. As long as there are inequalities the influx of people will continue."
Remember that the next time President Bush or any other politician in the Beltway says that amnesty for illegals in America will solve the illegal immigration problem. It might alleviate the problem, for a while, but not eradicate it, Navarro said. "It's like the Dutch boy and the dike, only he could not plug all the pressure points."
The Mexican minimum wage -- $4 or 42 pesos a day -- is another pressure point, Navarro says.
"Ask them why they are crossing and they will say there is no work where they live; that they cannot survive on the minimum wage," he says. "The idea of coming to this country and making $10 to $20 an hour is unbelievable for them."
And it will be unbelievable if America is not frightened by this international naked challenge to its sovereignty. The only thing more galling than 11 million foreigners who are violating the law and yet want, no, make that demand , American citizenship is that other nations also will be demanding it.
If that does not motivate every American to reclaim this country then all is lost. And get used to virtual mob rule when policy in Washington is based on how many protesters march for the cause du jour.
Let's hope the boycott is an international success -- but only if it awakens this sleeping giant so it can reclaim its identity before every American is forced to learn Spanish and the lyrics to the Internationale, the anthem of workers around the world. Especially the Third World.
QUOTE (Haupt @ Apr 25 2006, 12:48 AM)
that Jesus pic is sick, man. I keep looking at it when I scroll down...any chance of persuading you to take it off?
Yeah I find the situation in which he was betrayed rather disgusting as well.
I propose some serious dialogue on the decay of the state which lays before us. This destructions core rests amidst the arguments made by the illegal immigrants. By ignoring the hypocrisy that a non-citizen is demanding their "rights" while in the process of commiting a crime and demonstrating disregard for the law we are sanctioning disrespect for jurisprudence as the contract which defines our sovereign existence. If we allow this to take place, then answer where the demands will end? What prevents any group from making a demand as long as it is done in massive turnout? May the middle class simply now take to the streets and present that they will no longer pay any taxes? Who will punish 100 million people? Right? Isn't this the beginning of mob rule? As for the plight of civilizations, it is simple...When you let a foreign entity determine the direction of your soveriegn persuasion then you no longer control your soveriegnty. If this demanding mass, who by the way are all too cowardly to attend to their own corruptions at home, gain their desires then this will spell the end of the constitution as our governing hope. We will no longer be a society ruled by law but a society ruled by men. Our constitutional heritage demands that we are not subordinate to the convenience of the moment, the unending desire to bury our heads or complain at an arm chairs distance. So what then if our own executives, the ones we have given so much to have decided to endulge their collectivist fetish of internationalist desires? For me I do not chose to "rationalize" away my nation amidst sound bytes and poorly drawn metaphors about speeding. If it is nessecary then I will chose civil war and leave our president to his newly landed charlatan horde...
April 10th 2006, the day Rule of Law became Mob Rule and ushered in a new political process.
"It is okay to break the law if enough people do it"
Article http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=49707
Reconquista Forum San Bernadino CA Jan 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZxawMguIU
April 10th 2006, the day Rule of Law became Mob Rule and ushered in a new political process.
"It is okay to break the law if enough people do it"
Article http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=49707
Reconquista Forum San Bernadino CA Jan 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZxawMguIU
Myths About Illegal Immigration
MYTH: America has lots of room to double the population (The U.S. Census Bureau says that the U.S. population will double this century).
TRUTH: The open spaces one sees from an airplane are not where the 260 million new immigrants and their families will settle. They will settle in the already overcrowded urban areas of the country just like they always have. Much of America's open spaces are occupied by food production for our own people and to sustain tens of millions of people in other countries. Open spaces are also part of our national heritage of parks and wilderness. A U.S. Census spokesman recently said we shouldn't be very crowded even at twice the population because we still will have only about a fourth the density of England. This irresponsible "trick" statement averages our open spaces, much of which is farmland, parks, and otherwise uninhabitable land, into the equation. In the sections of the country where most Americans live, we are already very much as crowded as are Europeans. And do we want to live like Europeans who centuries ago destroyed most of their wild areas.
MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do.
TRUTH: Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.
Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.
Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.
HALF TRUTH: illegals eventually become assimilated Americans.
TRUTH: Many do. But Most third world illegals come to the U.S. for personal economic reasons. Most do not come to cherish our democratic system. Many so called "immigration rights" groups "fan the fire" with their rhetoric which encourages immigrants to preserve their culture and language at tax payers expense. Among some of these groups, the word "assimilation" is considered xenophobic. When ultimately illegal immigrants and/or their children do become voting citizens, many vote in blocks (Mexican-American, El Salvadoran-American, Guatemalan-American, etc.), not for the good of America, but for personal economic gain usually at the expense of another group.
HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens are better off in the U.S. doing lousy menial jobs than they are in their own country.
TRUTH: That may be true for the Illegal aliens in the short run (and businesses that hire them), but for many "undocumented immigrants" (Mexicans make up the majority), the "American legacy of exploitation of immigrants" remains in the minds of their children for many generations to come creating resentment of America and hinders assimilation of even their American born offspring. Resentment of America has created anti-American organizations such as MECHA whose nationwide college and high school members must pledge their support to forcefully take back what they call "Aztlan," the U.S. Southwest ceded in 1846 to the U.S. in the Mexican War.
HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens pay taxes that benefit the economy.
TRUTH: Most illegal aliens do not receive a typical paycheck with tax deductions -- they are paid in cash and do not pay taxes. Even when they do pay taxes (only possible if they use fraudulent social security numbers or government assigned ID tax numbers), their meager income is not enough to pay for medical expenses and all the expenses for all the children they give birth to. You don't have to look at statistics -- just visit the maternal ward at the L.A. county hospital. There, illegal immigrant women are having thousands of children per year free of charge and can't afford them once they give birth, and that doesn't stop them from having even more children -- most learn how to work the system so that they receive cash assistance and food stamps.
A basic principle in economics is this: The more people that assimilate into the system the better -- if it creates a larger tax base. But here in California it hasn't. For example, the feds had to bail out the L.A. County hospital system several years ago and the county hospitals are now again headed for another crisis. The evidence shows that the net results are that illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer significantly more than they pay in taxes.
HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens have a good work ethics.
TRUTH: It depends on what one means by "work ethic." If it means that illegals will allow themselves to be exploited, then they have a good work ethic. If it means that a group of day laborers would be consciences in the assembly of precision built automobiles, it might get an argument. But it is irrelevant if an illegal alien has a good work ethic -- they are working illegally!
MYTH: Illegal aliens don't affect politics because they can't vote.
TRUTH: Just by being counted in the census, illegals give political power to special groups. Many illegals fraudulently vote anyway and there is strong evidence that some key elections have been upset by illegal voters. Politicians represent the "people" even if those people are illegal aliens. Since the number of representatives in congress is fixed, any increase in population in California, for example, due to illegal immigration will require more representation for that group while taking away representation from people in other states. Most politicians that represent areas of large illegal population, vote in the interest of illegal aliens since they are the ones they represent. On the state level, it is clear that politicians like Governor Davis, California Speaker of the House Antonio Villaraigosa, California Senator Hilda Solis, California Assemblyman Gilbert A. Cedillo, etc., all want laws changed in the interest of illegal aliens.
MYTH: illegals go to illegal unlicensed medical clinics run by unlicensed quacks because they have no other alternative and because they are afraid of being deported.
TRUTH: Illegals know that they won't be deported simply for seeking medical help -- thousands go for free medical help every day. Obviously, the thousands of illegals who give birth in our county hospitals do not seem to be worried about deportation after their free delivery. The real reason many unsophisticated Hispanic illegals don't go to "free" medical facilities is because they actually trust "curanderos" ( type of witch doctors popular in Mexico) over licensed medical doctors.
HALF TRUTH: Illegals come to the U.S. for jobs to support their families, and wives and kids in there homeland.
TRUTH: Many do. But record numbers of those wives and kids are sneaking over the border to join their breadwinner in the U.S. But most alarming, is the record numbers of dead-beat dads that find an easy escape from their responsibilities in their homeland and in fact abandon their families. There is also strong empirical evidence that even illegal aliens who had good jobs in their homeland still want to be in the U.S. -- most of the world's people want to come to the U.S. because it is a very good place to be for many more reasons than just for a job.
MYTH: Pete Wilson's attitude towards illegal aliens stifled trade with Mexico. Governor Davis will change that.
TRUTH: Trade from California to Mexico increased 84.5 percent between 1992 and 1997 and did more trading with Mexico than any other state including Texas - all during the central years of the Wilson administration.
MYTH: Proposition 187 is unconstitutional because governor Davis says so.
TRUTH: Maybe 187 is unconstitutional. But it is not for the governor of California to decide that. That decision must come from the U.S. supreme court. Davis has preempted the supreme court and snubbed his nose at the voters of California by deciding on his own that 187 is unconstitutional -- contradicting a statement he made to the voters "I'm a governor, not a judge."
MYTH: The cost of not educating undocumented children is higher than the cost of educating them.
TRUTH: This kind of statement is absurd. It assumes that disallowing illegal alien children into our schools and/or deporting them is not an option. The idea that undocumented children are being punished for the bad deeds of their parents is ludicrous. Undocumented children already have citizenship in another country that is responsible for their education. California schools have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding who gets to go to school. This policy is a powerful magnet that attracts illegals to California. The costs are enormous. Undocumented children are being rewarded, not punished.
Few disagrees that if the current rate of illegal immigration continues, a school a day will have to be built to accommodate the undocumented children and citizen children of undocumented parents.
MYTH: Record public school enrollment on a national level of 17.5 percent from 1983 to 1997, is a result of Baby Boomers.
TRUTH: Current Population Surveys (such as reported in the January 1999 Backgrounder) shows that 15.9 percent of the school-age population growth in 1997 had immigrant mothers. In California, officials say a new school each day -- or a new classroom an hour -- is needed to keep up with the growth (Since immigrants are just as likely (even more likely) than natives to go to public school, it's clear that nearly all the increase in public school enrollment over the past 15 years is due to federal immigration policy, not the Baby Boom generation.
MYTH: Issuing California driver's licenses to illegal aliens will make our roads safer because they would be trained to drive safely and would have insurance.
TRUTH: Giving illegal aliens driver's licenses will only make enforcement of our immigrant laws more difficult -- it would make it harder to detect them. It also "throws in the towel" and sends the wrong message to illegal aliens that they can change the law by breaking the law. Society must assume that anyone who would break the law and drive without a license, would continue to break driving and other laws even if they were licensed and most would not be any safer drivers. Moreover, it is laughable to think that these illegal aliens are going to run out and buy car insurance (one of more profitable documents now being sold to illegals, are fraudulent "proof of insurance" documents).
MYTH: Lack of academic achievement and high school dropout rates are caused by the poor economic conditions of immigrants.
TRUTH: This belief is another one of those "just accept this as truth" cliches." Poverty in itself does not cause school dropouts. This was proven in a report in Scientific American magazine (Indochinese Refugee Families and Academic Achievement, February, 1992). The article showed that many refugees from Southeast Asia with large families arrived in the U.S. with little more than the clothes on their backs and with no exposure to Western culture or knowledge of the English language. Yet their children display stunning scholastic achievement in American schools. In the U.S., the effect of poverty on education has been focused mainly on two ethnic groups, Black and Hispanics. Ironically, these groups have the most representation by their "leaders" who's livings depend on bringing high visibility to the children's penurious conditions -- instead of emphasis on the hard work it takes to succeed in academics.
But for the sake of argument, if poverty of immigrants is the cause of their lack of academic acheivement, why would the U.S. want to import poverty.
MYTH: Since illegal alien farm workers come to the U.S. for "jobs Americans won't take," they would not present a problem if they were given temporary visas to allow them to work the fields and then return to Mexico (or other country).
TRUTH: Millions of illegal alien workers who could be doing all the farm work that "Americans won't do" are already in the U.S. Almost all illegals who come to work the fields do not make a career of low paying, hard working farm jobs. The belief that only pitiful third world laborers can be content in doing menial farm work is obviated when it is seen that almost all of these workers sooner or later "head for the city" for the better jobs.
HALF TRUTH: Illegals are enjoying the fruit of the recent great American robust economy.
TRUTH: While many Americans are benefiting from a robust economy, government data shows that record numbers of Americans are falling into poverty in spite of overall good economic conditions -- and in spite of 35 years of record government spending on social programs. This down slide can be directly linked to illegals flooding the low scale job market -- virtually importing poverty faster than it can be irradiated. Had there not been any massive illegal immigration in the past 20 years, poverty in much of America may well have been reduced significantly.
MYTH: Employers are solely responsible for illegal immigration because they attract illegals by providing low paying jobs.
TRUTH: Illegals are directly responsible for their illegal presence. Blaming the entire problem on employers for illegal immigration is like blaming a women for her own rape because she dressed to sexy and the rapist couldn't resist her.
HALF TRUTH: Hispanic immigrants are family oriented and very religious catholics.
TRUTH: The vast majority of illegal entries from across our southern border are unsophisticated, poor, and uneducated, who do not necessarily hold to strong family values or the Catholic faith. This is evident by U.S. statistics showing that while unwed teenage pregnancy in the U.S. is decreasing as a whole, Latina unwed teenage pregnancy is on the rise. The illegal immigrants of today are not all the honest, hard working, American dream seekers. This is evident by record numbers of dead-beat dads who walk away from their responsibilities to their children by leaving their homeland and simply crossing the border.
MYTH: If the U.S. pumps money into Mexico and other third world countries for the purpose of improving their economies, it will create jobs thus eliminating the need to illegally immigrate to the U.S.
TRUTH: The only way that the improvement of other countries' economies would appreciably stop illegal immigration to the U.S., is if those countries' economies were to become as strong as that of the U.S. Thousands of visa over stayers from non-third world countries like Canada, France, Israel, are also part of the illegal immigration problem and those countries have good economies. The U.S. is not the only country to which illegal immigrants seek to immigrate. Countries all over the world are experiencing illegal immigration driven by "wanting a better life." As soon as Third World countries become even only a little bit more prosperous than their neighbors, they rush to keep strangers out. Mexico, for example, does not tolerate its border violations by Guatemalans. Malaysia recently announced that in the case of repeat offenders, it will flog illegal aliens, their employers, and anyone who smuggles them into the country. In early January, 2000, over 35,000 illegal Zimbabwean workers were tossed out Of South Africa. So forget it! The U.S. should be concerned with improving its own economy and strictly enforcing its immigration laws.
HALF TRUTH: Immigrants make good entrepreneurs.
TRUTH: The common belief that immigrants are natural entrepreneurs may have its roots in the observation of the thousands of illegal alien third world style illegal street venders now found in most large U.S. cities. This belief has been obviated by a wall street article in which recent data shows that native born Americans are more likely to be successful entrepreneurs. (Immigrant Entrepreneurs Slide From Their Top Spot, The Wall Street Journal, January 12, 1999).
MYTH: America has lots of room to double the population (The U.S. Census Bureau says that the U.S. population will double this century).
TRUTH: The open spaces one sees from an airplane are not where the 260 million new immigrants and their families will settle. They will settle in the already overcrowded urban areas of the country just like they always have. Much of America's open spaces are occupied by food production for our own people and to sustain tens of millions of people in other countries. Open spaces are also part of our national heritage of parks and wilderness. A U.S. Census spokesman recently said we shouldn't be very crowded even at twice the population because we still will have only about a fourth the density of England. This irresponsible "trick" statement averages our open spaces, much of which is farmland, parks, and otherwise uninhabitable land, into the equation. In the sections of the country where most Americans live, we are already very much as crowded as are Europeans. And do we want to live like Europeans who centuries ago destroyed most of their wild areas.
MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do.
TRUTH: Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.
Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.
Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.
HALF TRUTH: illegals eventually become assimilated Americans.
TRUTH: Many do. But Most third world illegals come to the U.S. for personal economic reasons. Most do not come to cherish our democratic system. Many so called "immigration rights" groups "fan the fire" with their rhetoric which encourages immigrants to preserve their culture and language at tax payers expense. Among some of these groups, the word "assimilation" is considered xenophobic. When ultimately illegal immigrants and/or their children do become voting citizens, many vote in blocks (Mexican-American, El Salvadoran-American, Guatemalan-American, etc.), not for the good of America, but for personal economic gain usually at the expense of another group.
HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens are better off in the U.S. doing lousy menial jobs than they are in their own country.
TRUTH: That may be true for the Illegal aliens in the short run (and businesses that hire them), but for many "undocumented immigrants" (Mexicans make up the majority), the "American legacy of exploitation of immigrants" remains in the minds of their children for many generations to come creating resentment of America and hinders assimilation of even their American born offspring. Resentment of America has created anti-American organizations such as MECHA whose nationwide college and high school members must pledge their support to forcefully take back what they call "Aztlan," the U.S. Southwest ceded in 1846 to the U.S. in the Mexican War.
HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens pay taxes that benefit the economy.
TRUTH: Most illegal aliens do not receive a typical paycheck with tax deductions -- they are paid in cash and do not pay taxes. Even when they do pay taxes (only possible if they use fraudulent social security numbers or government assigned ID tax numbers), their meager income is not enough to pay for medical expenses and all the expenses for all the children they give birth to. You don't have to look at statistics -- just visit the maternal ward at the L.A. county hospital. There, illegal immigrant women are having thousands of children per year free of charge and can't afford them once they give birth, and that doesn't stop them from having even more children -- most learn how to work the system so that they receive cash assistance and food stamps.
A basic principle in economics is this: The more people that assimilate into the system the better -- if it creates a larger tax base. But here in California it hasn't. For example, the feds had to bail out the L.A. County hospital system several years ago and the county hospitals are now again headed for another crisis. The evidence shows that the net results are that illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer significantly more than they pay in taxes.
HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens have a good work ethics.
TRUTH: It depends on what one means by "work ethic." If it means that illegals will allow themselves to be exploited, then they have a good work ethic. If it means that a group of day laborers would be consciences in the assembly of precision built automobiles, it might get an argument. But it is irrelevant if an illegal alien has a good work ethic -- they are working illegally!
MYTH: Illegal aliens don't affect politics because they can't vote.
TRUTH: Just by being counted in the census, illegals give political power to special groups. Many illegals fraudulently vote anyway and there is strong evidence that some key elections have been upset by illegal voters. Politicians represent the "people" even if those people are illegal aliens. Since the number of representatives in congress is fixed, any increase in population in California, for example, due to illegal immigration will require more representation for that group while taking away representation from people in other states. Most politicians that represent areas of large illegal population, vote in the interest of illegal aliens since they are the ones they represent. On the state level, it is clear that politicians like Governor Davis, California Speaker of the House Antonio Villaraigosa, California Senator Hilda Solis, California Assemblyman Gilbert A. Cedillo, etc., all want laws changed in the interest of illegal aliens.
MYTH: illegals go to illegal unlicensed medical clinics run by unlicensed quacks because they have no other alternative and because they are afraid of being deported.
TRUTH: Illegals know that they won't be deported simply for seeking medical help -- thousands go for free medical help every day. Obviously, the thousands of illegals who give birth in our county hospitals do not seem to be worried about deportation after their free delivery. The real reason many unsophisticated Hispanic illegals don't go to "free" medical facilities is because they actually trust "curanderos" ( type of witch doctors popular in Mexico) over licensed medical doctors.
HALF TRUTH: Illegals come to the U.S. for jobs to support their families, and wives and kids in there homeland.
TRUTH: Many do. But record numbers of those wives and kids are sneaking over the border to join their breadwinner in the U.S. But most alarming, is the record numbers of dead-beat dads that find an easy escape from their responsibilities in their homeland and in fact abandon their families. There is also strong empirical evidence that even illegal aliens who had good jobs in their homeland still want to be in the U.S. -- most of the world's people want to come to the U.S. because it is a very good place to be for many more reasons than just for a job.
MYTH: Pete Wilson's attitude towards illegal aliens stifled trade with Mexico. Governor Davis will change that.
TRUTH: Trade from California to Mexico increased 84.5 percent between 1992 and 1997 and did more trading with Mexico than any other state including Texas - all during the central years of the Wilson administration.
MYTH: Proposition 187 is unconstitutional because governor Davis says so.
TRUTH: Maybe 187 is unconstitutional. But it is not for the governor of California to decide that. That decision must come from the U.S. supreme court. Davis has preempted the supreme court and snubbed his nose at the voters of California by deciding on his own that 187 is unconstitutional -- contradicting a statement he made to the voters "I'm a governor, not a judge."
MYTH: The cost of not educating undocumented children is higher than the cost of educating them.
TRUTH: This kind of statement is absurd. It assumes that disallowing illegal alien children into our schools and/or deporting them is not an option. The idea that undocumented children are being punished for the bad deeds of their parents is ludicrous. Undocumented children already have citizenship in another country that is responsible for their education. California schools have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding who gets to go to school. This policy is a powerful magnet that attracts illegals to California. The costs are enormous. Undocumented children are being rewarded, not punished.
Few disagrees that if the current rate of illegal immigration continues, a school a day will have to be built to accommodate the undocumented children and citizen children of undocumented parents.
MYTH: Record public school enrollment on a national level of 17.5 percent from 1983 to 1997, is a result of Baby Boomers.
TRUTH: Current Population Surveys (such as reported in the January 1999 Backgrounder) shows that 15.9 percent of the school-age population growth in 1997 had immigrant mothers. In California, officials say a new school each day -- or a new classroom an hour -- is needed to keep up with the growth (Since immigrants are just as likely (even more likely) than natives to go to public school, it's clear that nearly all the increase in public school enrollment over the past 15 years is due to federal immigration policy, not the Baby Boom generation.
MYTH: Issuing California driver's licenses to illegal aliens will make our roads safer because they would be trained to drive safely and would have insurance.
TRUTH: Giving illegal aliens driver's licenses will only make enforcement of our immigrant laws more difficult -- it would make it harder to detect them. It also "throws in the towel" and sends the wrong message to illegal aliens that they can change the law by breaking the law. Society must assume that anyone who would break the law and drive without a license, would continue to break driving and other laws even if they were licensed and most would not be any safer drivers. Moreover, it is laughable to think that these illegal aliens are going to run out and buy car insurance (one of more profitable documents now being sold to illegals, are fraudulent "proof of insurance" documents).
MYTH: Lack of academic achievement and high school dropout rates are caused by the poor economic conditions of immigrants.
TRUTH: This belief is another one of those "just accept this as truth" cliches." Poverty in itself does not cause school dropouts. This was proven in a report in Scientific American magazine (Indochinese Refugee Families and Academic Achievement, February, 1992). The article showed that many refugees from Southeast Asia with large families arrived in the U.S. with little more than the clothes on their backs and with no exposure to Western culture or knowledge of the English language. Yet their children display stunning scholastic achievement in American schools. In the U.S., the effect of poverty on education has been focused mainly on two ethnic groups, Black and Hispanics. Ironically, these groups have the most representation by their "leaders" who's livings depend on bringing high visibility to the children's penurious conditions -- instead of emphasis on the hard work it takes to succeed in academics.
But for the sake of argument, if poverty of immigrants is the cause of their lack of academic acheivement, why would the U.S. want to import poverty.
MYTH: Since illegal alien farm workers come to the U.S. for "jobs Americans won't take," they would not present a problem if they were given temporary visas to allow them to work the fields and then return to Mexico (or other country).
TRUTH: Millions of illegal alien workers who could be doing all the farm work that "Americans won't do" are already in the U.S. Almost all illegals who come to work the fields do not make a career of low paying, hard working farm jobs. The belief that only pitiful third world laborers can be content in doing menial farm work is obviated when it is seen that almost all of these workers sooner or later "head for the city" for the better jobs.
HALF TRUTH: Illegals are enjoying the fruit of the recent great American robust economy.
TRUTH: While many Americans are benefiting from a robust economy, government data shows that record numbers of Americans are falling into poverty in spite of overall good economic conditions -- and in spite of 35 years of record government spending on social programs. This down slide can be directly linked to illegals flooding the low scale job market -- virtually importing poverty faster than it can be irradiated. Had there not been any massive illegal immigration in the past 20 years, poverty in much of America may well have been reduced significantly.
MYTH: Employers are solely responsible for illegal immigration because they attract illegals by providing low paying jobs.
TRUTH: Illegals are directly responsible for their illegal presence. Blaming the entire problem on employers for illegal immigration is like blaming a women for her own rape because she dressed to sexy and the rapist couldn't resist her.
HALF TRUTH: Hispanic immigrants are family oriented and very religious catholics.
TRUTH: The vast majority of illegal entries from across our southern border are unsophisticated, poor, and uneducated, who do not necessarily hold to strong family values or the Catholic faith. This is evident by U.S. statistics showing that while unwed teenage pregnancy in the U.S. is decreasing as a whole, Latina unwed teenage pregnancy is on the rise. The illegal immigrants of today are not all the honest, hard working, American dream seekers. This is evident by record numbers of dead-beat dads who walk away from their responsibilities to their children by leaving their homeland and simply crossing the border.
MYTH: If the U.S. pumps money into Mexico and other third world countries for the purpose of improving their economies, it will create jobs thus eliminating the need to illegally immigrate to the U.S.
TRUTH: The only way that the improvement of other countries' economies would appreciably stop illegal immigration to the U.S., is if those countries' economies were to become as strong as that of the U.S. Thousands of visa over stayers from non-third world countries like Canada, France, Israel, are also part of the illegal immigration problem and those countries have good economies. The U.S. is not the only country to which illegal immigrants seek to immigrate. Countries all over the world are experiencing illegal immigration driven by "wanting a better life." As soon as Third World countries become even only a little bit more prosperous than their neighbors, they rush to keep strangers out. Mexico, for example, does not tolerate its border violations by Guatemalans. Malaysia recently announced that in the case of repeat offenders, it will flog illegal aliens, their employers, and anyone who smuggles them into the country. In early January, 2000, over 35,000 illegal Zimbabwean workers were tossed out Of South Africa. So forget it! The U.S. should be concerned with improving its own economy and strictly enforcing its immigration laws.
HALF TRUTH: Immigrants make good entrepreneurs.
TRUTH: The common belief that immigrants are natural entrepreneurs may have its roots in the observation of the thousands of illegal alien third world style illegal street venders now found in most large U.S. cities. This belief has been obviated by a wall street article in which recent data shows that native born Americans are more likely to be successful entrepreneurs. (Immigrant Entrepreneurs Slide From Their Top Spot, The Wall Street Journal, January 12, 1999).
Burbank's order that Home Depot build a hiring center
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=138432
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=138432
I have seen this situation from both sides first hand.
I have children born in Mexico of their mother a Mexican citizen and me, an American citizen . My children have Mexican birth certificates and US passports. It was surprisingly difficult to immigrate their mother to the US. There definitely needs to be something done to make this process easier...a lot easier.
On the other side:
In 1994 I took one of the jobs that 'Americans don't want'. I started out in a large corporation in a labor position where 80% of the others in my same position were alien workers at the same pay and the same hours. This is called an entry level postition. One can rise above the entry level by hard and honest work. After three promotions and rises in pay (within one year) I found myself in human resources. It was not required at the time for an employer to verify the validity of a prospective employees documents; only to verify and document that they possess these documents. I was also privy to tax filing informatin at point of hire. To a head, every one of the aliens filed exempt tax status (claiming a huge number of dependents). They paid no taxes. None. It is true that we couldn't hire Americans to do these jobs but it wasn't because the jobs had no potential or were meaningless. They were simply entry level jobs that require good old fashion work and reliability to move up. Too many Americans are already brainwashed into the belief that their country should guarantee them something for nothing and will not, in most cases, accept actually having to be a valued employee to gain respect and higher incomes from an employer. If one has no skills, or in my case just old and wore out
, then one must accept an unskilled labor job. Likewise if one has skills and wishes to improve their position in life then one must have the credientials for this. Illegals do not have these credentials and until they do, they have no more right to the benefits of upward mobility than does a person umwilling to put in the effort to improve ones own abilites in order to achieve better status of life.
1. The illegals must be stopped from entering the US (illegally) As long as anyone can cross that border ANYONE CAN CROSS THAT BORDER. Some of our neighbors to the south are not so US friendly these days.
2. It must be made much much easier for those who wish to be of benefit to both themselves and to their host country to get the needed credentials to avoid the thievery of use of infrastructure without putting anything back.
Boh Bpen Yang
I have children born in Mexico of their mother a Mexican citizen and me, an American citizen . My children have Mexican birth certificates and US passports. It was surprisingly difficult to immigrate their mother to the US. There definitely needs to be something done to make this process easier...a lot easier.
On the other side:
In 1994 I took one of the jobs that 'Americans don't want'. I started out in a large corporation in a labor position where 80% of the others in my same position were alien workers at the same pay and the same hours. This is called an entry level postition. One can rise above the entry level by hard and honest work. After three promotions and rises in pay (within one year) I found myself in human resources. It was not required at the time for an employer to verify the validity of a prospective employees documents; only to verify and document that they possess these documents. I was also privy to tax filing informatin at point of hire. To a head, every one of the aliens filed exempt tax status (claiming a huge number of dependents). They paid no taxes. None. It is true that we couldn't hire Americans to do these jobs but it wasn't because the jobs had no potential or were meaningless. They were simply entry level jobs that require good old fashion work and reliability to move up. Too many Americans are already brainwashed into the belief that their country should guarantee them something for nothing and will not, in most cases, accept actually having to be a valued employee to gain respect and higher incomes from an employer. If one has no skills, or in my case just old and wore out
, then one must accept an unskilled labor job. Likewise if one has skills and wishes to improve their position in life then one must have the credientials for this. Illegals do not have these credentials and until they do, they have no more right to the benefits of upward mobility than does a person umwilling to put in the effort to improve ones own abilites in order to achieve better status of life.1. The illegals must be stopped from entering the US (illegally) As long as anyone can cross that border ANYONE CAN CROSS THAT BORDER. Some of our neighbors to the south are not so US friendly these days.
2. It must be made much much easier for those who wish to be of benefit to both themselves and to their host country to get the needed credentials to avoid the thievery of use of infrastructure without putting anything back.
Boh Bpen Yang
Thanks, Boh Bpen Yang, for an informed personal insight into the problem. I agree.
Not to argue with you, but honestly - what neighbors to the south of the USA have become unfriendly in recent years? Mexico? Venezuela? If so, what's the point? The citizens of Mexico who migrate illegally usually LIKE the USA, and wish to join their northern neighbors. Venezuelans don't migrate much at all.
But if you're essentially correct that illegal aliens file enough withholding exemptions to be exempt from withholding (I'm a former IRS auditor who once worked in the "Questionable W-4 Program"), isn't that evidence that the entire modern federal system is so broken, that one can break the related laws with almost complete immunity? They cross the Rio Grande, get through the interior checkpoints, stay out of trouble enough not to get arrested and deported, file questionable W-4's...and few of them ever get arrested, because they cleverly break only the laws they can likely get away with. And we American citizens who drive 72mph in a 65mph zone, cheat a little on our income taxes, cheat on our spouses occasionally (or committed sodomy under the old criminal statute of Texas) - we're doing similar criminal acts because we know we won't get caught.
Pot, kettle, black; throwing the first stone....I'm not referring to you personally, BBY, just making the point that we can hardly accuse folks of resisting the temptation to break certain laws if our govt. isn't going to enforce those laws. I say that, partly because we don't want to pay enough taxes for all that enforcement anyway, and also because we don't want all the laws enforced.
Not to argue with you, but honestly - what neighbors to the south of the USA have become unfriendly in recent years? Mexico? Venezuela? If so, what's the point? The citizens of Mexico who migrate illegally usually LIKE the USA, and wish to join their northern neighbors. Venezuelans don't migrate much at all.
But if you're essentially correct that illegal aliens file enough withholding exemptions to be exempt from withholding (I'm a former IRS auditor who once worked in the "Questionable W-4 Program"), isn't that evidence that the entire modern federal system is so broken, that one can break the related laws with almost complete immunity? They cross the Rio Grande, get through the interior checkpoints, stay out of trouble enough not to get arrested and deported, file questionable W-4's...and few of them ever get arrested, because they cleverly break only the laws they can likely get away with. And we American citizens who drive 72mph in a 65mph zone, cheat a little on our income taxes, cheat on our spouses occasionally (or committed sodomy under the old criminal statute of Texas) - we're doing similar criminal acts because we know we won't get caught.
Pot, kettle, black; throwing the first stone....I'm not referring to you personally, BBY, just making the point that we can hardly accuse folks of resisting the temptation to break certain laws if our govt. isn't going to enforce those laws. I say that, partly because we don't want to pay enough taxes for all that enforcement anyway, and also because we don't want all the laws enforced.
QUOTE (Boh Bpen Yang @ Apr 27 2006, 11:27 AM)
I have seen this situation from both sides first hand.
I have children born in Mexico of their mother a Mexican citizen and me, an American citizen . My children have Mexican birth certificates and US passports. It was surprisingly difficult to immigrate their mother to the US. There definitely needs to be something done to make this process easier...a lot easier.
On the other side:
In 1994 I took one of the jobs that 'Americans don't want'. I started out in a large corporation in a labor position where 80% of the others in my same position were alien workers at the same pay and the same hours. This is called an entry level postition. One can rise above the entry level by hard and honest work. After three promotions and rises in pay (within one year) I found myself in human resources. It was not required at the time for an employer to verify the validity of a prospective employees documents; only to verify and document that they possess these documents. I was also privy to tax filing informatin at point of hire. To a head, every one of the aliens filed exempt tax status (claiming a huge number of dependents). They paid no taxes. None. It is true that we couldn't hire Americans to do these jobs but it wasn't because the jobs had no potential or were meaningless. They were simply entry level jobs that require good old fashion work and reliability to move up. Too many Americans are already brainwashed into the belief that their country should guarantee them something for nothing and will not, in most cases, accept actually having to be a valued employee to gain respect and higher incomes from an employer. If one has no skills, or in my case just old and wore out , then one must accept an unskilled labor job. Likewise if one has skills and wishes to improve their position in life then one must have the credientials for this. Illegals do not have these credentials and until they do, they have no more right to the benefits of upward mobility than does a person umwilling to put in the effort to improve ones own abilites in order to achieve better status of life.
1. The illegals must be stopped from entering the US (illegally) As long as anyone can cross that border ANYONE CAN CROSS THAT BORDER. Some of our neighbors to the south are not so US friendly these days.
2. It must be made much much easier for those who wish to be of benefit to both themselves and to their host country to get the needed credentials to avoid the thievery of use of infrastructure without putting anything back.
Boh Bpen Yang
I have children born in Mexico of their mother a Mexican citizen and me, an American citizen . My children have Mexican birth certificates and US passports. It was surprisingly difficult to immigrate their mother to the US. There definitely needs to be something done to make this process easier...a lot easier.
On the other side:
In 1994 I took one of the jobs that 'Americans don't want'. I started out in a large corporation in a labor position where 80% of the others in my same position were alien workers at the same pay and the same hours. This is called an entry level postition. One can rise above the entry level by hard and honest work. After three promotions and rises in pay (within one year) I found myself in human resources. It was not required at the time for an employer to verify the validity of a prospective employees documents; only to verify and document that they possess these documents. I was also privy to tax filing informatin at point of hire. To a head, every one of the aliens filed exempt tax status (claiming a huge number of dependents). They paid no taxes. None. It is true that we couldn't hire Americans to do these jobs but it wasn't because the jobs had no potential or were meaningless. They were simply entry level jobs that require good old fashion work and reliability to move up. Too many Americans are already brainwashed into the belief that their country should guarantee them something for nothing and will not, in most cases, accept actually having to be a valued employee to gain respect and higher incomes from an employer. If one has no skills, or in my case just old and wore out
, then one must accept an unskilled labor job. Likewise if one has skills and wishes to improve their position in life then one must have the credientials for this. Illegals do not have these credentials and until they do, they have no more right to the benefits of upward mobility than does a person umwilling to put in the effort to improve ones own abilites in order to achieve better status of life.1. The illegals must be stopped from entering the US (illegally) As long as anyone can cross that border ANYONE CAN CROSS THAT BORDER. Some of our neighbors to the south are not so US friendly these days.
2. It must be made much much easier for those who wish to be of benefit to both themselves and to their host country to get the needed credentials to avoid the thievery of use of infrastructure without putting anything back.
Boh Bpen Yang
I know what you are saying about those jobs, however I think that there has been some sort of cultural brainwashing of Americans. Everyone is always saying those are jobs noone wants, those are jobs noone wants, those are jobs noone wants...etc. You mentioned how quickly you rose up the ranks and many Americans would do this labor. These jobs can also be filled by those seeking jobs via job service banks, but they are never posted as long as an employer can hire someone for less than minimum wage. But really the argument here is numbers there are not 20 million jobs americans wont do. The center for Immigration studies states that only a very small percentage of illlegal aliens are working at any given time. As a side note, here in the Seattle area I have many artist friends who do this work to supplement their income between "gigs". But I think labor is the distractive issue at play, because if you think about it-these illegals are not protesting their govenment at all! You would think if conditions were so bad and their desire was to really progress they would want to change things right? What caliber of person flees corruption and then proclaims allegience to the oppressive force? It is not feasible to think that these illegals have some sort of massive stockholm syndrome...The other forces at play here are socialism, post soviet communism, the desire of Mexico to disrupt the United States, massive amounts of drug flow and drug related cash flow and most importantly Rule Of Law!
QUOTE (Gore_Lost @ Apr 27 2006, 08:22 PM)
I know what you are saying about those jobs, however I think that there has been some sort of cultural brainwashing of Americans. Everyone is always saying those are jobs noone wants, those are jobs noone wants, those are jobs noone wants...etc. You mentioned how quickly you rose up the ranks and many Americans would do this labor. These jobs can also be filled by those seeking jobs via job service banks, but they are never posted as long as an employer can hire someone for less than minimum wage. But really the argument here is numbers there are not 20 million jobs americans wont do. The center for Immigration studies states that only a very small percentage of illlegal aliens are working at any given time. As a side note, here in the Seattle area I have many artist friends who do this work to supplement their income between "gigs". But I think labor is the distractive issue at play, because if you think about it-these illegals are not protesting their govenment at all! You would think if conditions were so bad and their desire was to really progress they would want to change things right? What caliber of person flees corruption and then proclaims allegience to the oppressive force? It is not feasible to think that these illegals have some sort of massive stockholm syndrome...The other forces at play here are socialism, post soviet communism, the desire of Mexico to disrupt the United States, massive amounts of drug flow and drug related cash flow and most importantly Rule Of Law!
The job banks we used we genuinely tried to hire Americans. Most of the people, of the few who applied, had troubles with either the drug sceens or the showing up sober aspects of the work environment. I am not saying in any terms that Mexicans or any other countries people should not go to USA and work. I have a passport full of work visas for around 6 or 7 different countries. I don't have any deportation stamps for entering and working illegally. I know what would happen if I tried that in any of the other countries that I have worked. No tolerance. Why should the USA be asked to break that mould and not require documentatin and qualification. If someone wants to work in the US it is a very similar circumstance to any other country. The employer assists in making the visa application in a timely manner so that the immigrant employee can arrive at the time he/she is needed for the job. When time expires or the job is finished so is the visa.
Try sometimes to become a citizen of Thailand or even a perminent resident, not an easy order, but you can get permission to work on a short term basis rather easily. Thailand still has an illegal immigration problem.
QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Apr 27 2006, 12:59 PM)
Thanks, Boh Bpen Yang, for an informed personal insight into the problem. I agree.
Not to argue with you, but honestly - what neighbors to the south of the USA have become unfriendly in recent years? Mexico? Venezuela? If so, what's the point? The citizens of Mexico who migrate illegally usually LIKE the USA, and wish to join their northern neighbors. Venezuelans don't migrate much at all.
But if you're essentially correct that illegal aliens file enough withholding exemptions to be exempt from withholding (I'm a former IRS auditor who once worked in the "Questionable W-4 Program"), isn't that evidence that the entire modern federal system is so broken, that one can break the related laws with almost complete immunity? They cross the Rio Grande, get through the interior checkpoints, stay out of trouble enough not to get arrested and deported, file questionable W-4's...and few of them ever get arrested, because they cleverly break only the laws they can likely get away with. And we American citizens who drive 72mph in a 65mph zone, cheat a little on our income taxes, cheat on our spouses occasionally (or committed sodomy under the old criminal statute of Texas) - we're doing similar criminal acts because we know we won't get caught.
Pot, kettle, black; throwing the first stone....I'm not referring to you personally, BBY, just making the point that we can hardly accuse folks of resisting the temptation to break certain laws if our govt. isn't going to enforce those laws. I say that, partly because we don't want to pay enough taxes for all that enforcement anyway, and also because we don't want all the laws enforced.
Not to argue with you, but honestly - what neighbors to the south of the USA have become unfriendly in recent years? Mexico? Venezuela? If so, what's the point? The citizens of Mexico who migrate illegally usually LIKE the USA, and wish to join their northern neighbors. Venezuelans don't migrate much at all.
But if you're essentially correct that illegal aliens file enough withholding exemptions to be exempt from withholding (I'm a former IRS auditor who once worked in the "Questionable W-4 Program"), isn't that evidence that the entire modern federal system is so broken, that one can break the related laws with almost complete immunity? They cross the Rio Grande, get through the interior checkpoints, stay out of trouble enough not to get arrested and deported, file questionable W-4's...and few of them ever get arrested, because they cleverly break only the laws they can likely get away with. And we American citizens who drive 72mph in a 65mph zone, cheat a little on our income taxes, cheat on our spouses occasionally (or committed sodomy under the old criminal statute of Texas) - we're doing similar criminal acts because we know we won't get caught.
Pot, kettle, black; throwing the first stone....I'm not referring to you personally, BBY, just making the point that we can hardly accuse folks of resisting the temptation to break certain laws if our govt. isn't going to enforce those laws. I say that, partly because we don't want to pay enough taxes for all that enforcement anyway, and also because we don't want all the laws enforced.
I take your point. What is before the US now is asking to make it even easier to break certain laws or at least make a look the other way for those who have already broken those laws. I don't want to sound cynical Synical? but I can't do that in any of the countries I visit. Why does most of the world think that the evil, empirical USA should be the only country that does this without the protest of the populace. I realize that certain European countries have questionable immigration policies, but ask their citizenry how they feel about it and I think you will find that they are by and large unhappy with the resulting degredation of their culture and society. What is a country if not it's people?
Boh bpen yang
Boh bpen yang,
I agree almost completely with your remarks above. Not to be too technical, I hope, but there's one statement there I have not found to be true:
"Try sometimes to become a citizen of Thailand or even a perminent resident, not an easy order, but you can get permission to work on a short term basis rather easily. Thailand still has an illegal immigration problem."
I worked in a northern province of Thailand for two years, at govt. schools, and they were totally unable to get me a work permit. I know other teachers who work at GOVT and private school without work permits, even though we have proper education and certification for the teaching we do. I'm a farang mojado!
I agree almost completely with your remarks above. Not to be too technical, I hope, but there's one statement there I have not found to be true:
"Try sometimes to become a citizen of Thailand or even a perminent resident, not an easy order, but you can get permission to work on a short term basis rather easily. Thailand still has an illegal immigration problem."
I worked in a northern province of Thailand for two years, at govt. schools, and they were totally unable to get me a work permit. I know other teachers who work at GOVT and private school without work permits, even though we have proper education and certification for the teaching we do. I'm a farang mojado!
QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Apr 27 2006, 12:59 PM)
Thanks, Boh Bpen Yang, for an informed personal insight into the problem. I agree.
Not to argue with you, but honestly - what neighbors to the south of the USA have become unfriendly in recent years? Mexico? Venezuela? If so, what's the point?
Not to argue with you, but honestly - what neighbors to the south of the USA have become unfriendly in recent years? Mexico? Venezuela? If so, what's the point?
Sorry I missed the first question. Yeah Venezuela, Bolivia (my second favorite place in the world) and soon to be Mexico if the Socialist President (who would most likely align with Ven., Bol., and Cuba) is elected in the next election as it seems may happen. Secure borders... It only takes a few people who are coming with the intent of doing harm out of the millions that walk nearly unobstructed into the USA now. Secure borders is the point. Let people come; let employers that need immigrant workers apply for them so they can come more easily and quickly. Most important let them come under some sort of scrutiny even if it a falable scrutiny it is better than almost completely unchecked.
Boh Bpen Yang
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