Anyone remember about a year ago when president Bush went around trying to drum up support to reform social security? Where exactly did that end? I know his privatization initiative got shot down but what happend after that? Did they just quit or are they still doing something with that?

They just quit. Bush was right to bring it up as an issue, he was totally wrong to try to push a privatization scheme. So now, nothing. Blame bush.

......I blame Laura...

Hoorah for America's short attention span.

It was just another massive Bush miscalculation and failure and has nothing to do with attention span.
If Bush had proposed a reasonable reform, like minor tweaking of formulas and eligibility ages, the so called "crisis" could have been delayed another 50 years.

The AARP, being selfish dolts who are ruining America, shot it down.

Why should the crisis be delayed? Shouldn't the crisis be solved, the best way to do that is to do away with the system entirely. And why does the blame have to be put on Bush? I didn't hear anyone else coming up with ideas, they just shot them down. Bush may be an idiot but at least he tries which is more than I can say for most of the federal government.

I agree that the best way of dealing with Social Security would be to do away with it entirely.

But that option is not politically viable, so I support Bush's reform plan.

Baby boomers have paid into it for decades. You try to take it away, just try suckers, there will be bloodshed!

Bush comes up with what appears to be his own ideas, at times, like SS reform and immigration policy. It's almost as if he complains to his handlers, "Just let me try one little fiasco," so they let him.

SS reform is very complex, but basically it's like touching the third rai of an electric railroad (ouch!). It is subject to huge pressure groups, like AARP, who have legitimate private and public interest in the matter. You have to nearly guarnatee everybody who's approaching SS age - say over age 50 - that their pension will be affected by less than 10%. Then, the devil is in the details. The SS system isn't actuarially sound, and the "trust fund" is just a pile of IOU's from the world's largest debtor.

Jake Pickle, congressman from Austin, managed to get this done around 1985, and his staff told me he considered it his greatest accomplishment.

Yes, Congress often has a short attention span, or is flatly in denial, about freight trains coming straight at them.

And what makes you think that there won't be bloodshed from those 31 and younger? Those are the people paying right now who stand to lose the most, 2042 may be the magic number that is supposed to make me feel warm and fuzzy because it is so far away but 2052 is the magic number that I'm more concerned about.

I'm tired of hearing about these untouchable political problems. I thought that's why congressman are paid all that money was to fix complex problems.

I do anticipate generational conflict, but the reality is the demographics, baby boomers are now older, older people vote, younger people don't vote. Thats a block of 60 million voters, you can't beat that. Politics is all about compromise. The baby boomers are going to take some tweaks which will in effect be cuts, but the system will continue. 2052 is an absurd date to worry about in American politics. Frankly, there is no 100 percent assurance there will be an America in 2052.

And be grateful, us baby boomers brought you gay liberation, LSD, and the consciousness to resist the military industrial complex. We are nothing compared to the greatest generation, the generation that won WW 2, but frankly, the generations that have followed the baby boomers are a total dissapointment. What have you given our culture? Young republican neocon neofacism? Please try harder, you still have time.

Well, your generation destroyed American confidence and military-economic dominance, and the later generations are busy rebuilding it.

So the proof is in the pudding, I guess.

But the 60s generation did bring us Weed in a big way, so I got to thank them for that, even though I quit some time ago

And, much more importantly, the best music of all time.

I forget to mention the weed! You are welcome! I was a pothead all through my teen years, what fun, never went to a demo without the proper mental adjustment.

Your generation's love affair with neofacism is very disturbing. I think it is a rebellion against the baby boomers, that is natural in all of world history, but it is a dangerous one in these times. Given we have a fascistic regime, it should be the YOUTH in the vanguard of resistance, but where are the youth? They are totally selfish! I am serious, I really don't see any value the generations following the baby boomers have added, excepting being typical American mindless consumers. Look into your souls, study history, do better!

Remember these words from President Eisenhower:
Now here is a REPUBLICAN I can greatly admire!

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

I don't see what the accomplishments or lack thereof of a specific generation have to do with the fact that social security needs to be fixed. By fixed I mean in the same way as a dog, so that it can't breed and will eventually die off. And 2052 is not an absurd date to worry about, it's the year that I'll hit 67 and can start drawing social security (assuming they don't raise the retirement age again). It also happens to be 10 years after the system starts running into the red. One of two things will happen, either they will raise the social security tax or they will cut benefits. Why not just save hassle and get rid of the failed system altogether?

You will have to be alot more specific.
Stop it when? Stop it now? Don't pay current people? Don't pay baby boomers? Replace it with what?
Allow old people to die in the streets? Americans NEED social security because bottom line the majority DO NOT SAVE ON THEIR OWN! Thank you, FDR!

Stopping it now would be a great idea. The great thing about social security is that there is no obligation for the government to pay beneficiaries. In other words they could stop the program tomorrow and they wouldn't legally owe anyone one red cent.

I for one have confidence in myself over the government to be able to acquire wealth to sustain me in my old age. I could do much better than the government with that 12% it takes out of my paycheck to redistribute to other people. And if the majority can't save on their own then let that majority put their faith in the government, but let me and all other Americans who know how to save get out of the system.

Thank komrade FDR indeed. He's showed us the uselessness of socialism once again.

You made me laugh again!
Just stop it now!
Cut off the 90 year old who will die without it? Who paid into it all his life.
You are going to have to rethink your position; it is all about your own greed.
And you think you will be able to save now, but you don't know for sure, and statistics say the vast majority of people don't save, or don't save nearly enough. We are a SOCIETY. It is not just about YOU!
I think a reasoned reform can occur, but people like you will not be in the equation!

It's greedy to want to spend my hard earned money on what I want? It's not about greed, it's about being able to invest my money whereever I see fit. How am I supposed to save my money when the government takes it and gives it to someone else? This isn't a tax paying for a soldier's gear or road construction, it's a tax that is taking my money and giving it to someone else that benefits society in no way. And just because the government robbed some 90 year old of his money throughout his life doesn't mean they should rob me to pay him back.

The government didn't rob anybody. The 90 year old DESERVES that money because he paid for 90 year olds in his day. Now its your turn. Be an American and be a man. I also feel as you will pay, if you live to old age (many people do not) then you are entitled to benefits as well. There will be no reform that does not allow for benefits being paid to people who paid into it. That just would be politically impossible. If you want changes and reforms, again, you will have to do better, because any politician who said anything like you just said would be defeated by a landslide every time.

Americans were not dying in the streets prior to the New Deal.

New Deal Policies actively made the Depression worse, most economists today will tell you.

YES THEY WERE!!!!!!
Don't they teach history anymore in school????
THE GREAT DEPRESSION.
Amazing ignorance from a college boy. I am actually shocked at your ignorance!

Didn't rob anybody? When social security first started out there was about a 16 to 1 ratio of workers to beneficiaries. Where did that surplus go? Oh that's right federal coffers. If the money was supposed to help the elderly poor then why did the surplus end up going to the federal government instead? I do agree the 90 year old deserves his money but he deserves it from the federal government who took it, not from me. I didn't make him pay taxes.

Did you also know that there is a cap to the amount of money paid by individuals? All income earned passed about $90,000 is not subject to the social security tax.

The maximum salary rate for FICA, for OASDI plus Medicare, is 7.65% of an employee's wages, matched by his employer. Nobody pays 12%, but by a complex calculation, self-employed people can pay roughly 14% of their net profit.

mobster, the current law has always permitted reduced retirement starting on your 62nd birthday. I did it.

TQ, the 90-year olds didn't pay in for 90 years. The program started in the 1930's, at very low rates and maximums, for a limited part of the workforce. Eventually, everything increased: rates, maximums, benefits, and the coverage of the workforce. Even most federal civil servants pay FICA now, and the military has paid FICA since about 1967.

Yes, the government does owe these people a pension. It's not actuarially correct, but it's what the govt. promises them. Yes, the fund has supported a nearly bankrupt federal govt for many decades, and the general fund that borrowed from the pension fund needs to pay its debts. That means federal income taxes will rise, as well as FICA contribution rates.

My dad was born in 1912, and by the time he was covered by SS, he paid in the maximum every year. He retired at age 64.8 in 1976, and recovered all his donations, his employers' donations, and compound interest, by 1986 or 1989, if I recall. SS paid my folks way too much, but they're dead. And I'm not about to donate my small inheritance to the SS fund!

mobster, you can't just stop the freight train now; it's too long and it's up to a high speed now. Yes, rates will need to rise, and retirement ages will need to be extended.

Since 1987, SS has been closer to actuarial computations. You don't get a minimum floor any more; my ex-wife might be entitled to $5 per month now. Most of the unfair double-dipping has been eliminated. I had to pay FICA in cash, with interest, for my military service in order for it to count toward my SS pension.

No simple solutions; pension systems are complex.

And yes, there is obviously inter-generational friction.

mobster, are you ready to financially support all your family members that are now on SS, or who will be, before you retire?

This is a common fallacy Fit', and you ought to be aware of it, my friend. An employee pays ALL of his/her Social Security. All of it! The only thing that is missing is the ability of others, such as yourself, to see that the employer withholds the amount of it's payment from the employee's paycheck.

Believe me, you pay ALL of it. Trust me on this one.

If the employee was shown, honestly, where he/she was being taxed, and forced to pay all the hidden expenses that the employer was forced to do for him/her, there would indeed be a Huge revolt within the country, and the Jackasses would NEVER regain control of Congress. After all, it can be clearly demonstrated that THEY instituted ALL these opressive regulations. The Jackass Lite party, the Republicans, just go along with these changes. The party to first illuminate this and make the necessary changes will be the majority party for a LONG time in the future. Trust me on this also.

You are talking about something DIFFERENT, what the government does with the funds. Y'all rejected the brilliant Al Gore and his LOCK BOX. (Well actually, y'all didn't, he received a healthy majority but had the election stolen by bush and the supreme court.) Y'all made fun of it. In any case, if you paid in, it is IMMORAL for it not to be paid out. And you theory that anywhere near the majority will save and invest enough THEMSELVES is totally PIE IN THE SKY. It will NEVER happen!

The only people in my immediate family that will be on SS in the near future are my parents. My mother is already semi-retired at the age of 41, I say semi-retired because she is still working but now she works at home and does a lot less work. My dad has 2 pension plans he can draw from when he retires not including social security. Neither one of them needs social security but if for whatever reason they needed financial help I would gladly give it to them. I've done it in the past and there is no reason I won't do it again if need be. That's the whole point of the family system, parents raise kids so that when the parents get old the kids can take care of the parents.

Just because a freight train is barreling out of control doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't stop it. No train track goes on forever, the train has to stop sometime. Why not now?



Immoral and illegal are two different things. So where is the morality in paying into a system that my parents haven't taken from, don't need, and that I don't want? Like I said, if the majority can't save then let the majority get help from the government. But I'm not part of that majority so I should not be lumped into the same system.

Private pensions are basically a dinasour, they are being PHASED OUT.
And you propose to scrap SS and replace with a massive new WELFARE PROGRAM? Again, you are HILARIOUS! That will never happen.
If you expect to have any effect on change to SS, you are going to have to deal with the way things are now. Bush tried (and he is really like you, he wants to scap it) and he totally failed. What does that tell you, buster?

BTW, the day I turn 50, I am going to join AARP. We will fight selfish punks like you and we will win. Now, get back to work and STOP WHINING!

Umm, no. No new welfare programs. Hell, while we're removing social security we should remove welfare programs too. Just because Bush wants to dismantle the program and failed doesn't mean I will fail. Maybe he didn't try hard enough.

Ah, youthful idealism, where is your generation on protesting the war in Iraq?????

What does the war in Iraq have to do with getting rid of social security? I'm talking about purging American government of this socialist program not about invading another country.

OK, fair enough.
And OK, I agree it is a SOCIALIST program.
It does need to be REFORMED.
But it has served America well, and the vast majority of voters don't want to touch it.
Any attempt to use the language you use PURGE will meet with embarassing defeat.
But I am happy to hear your arguments are so lame, you don't have a chance with that.
Bush was much more crafty, he had the same intentions as you, but cloaked them in sugar candy, even then, nobody was buying that crap!

BTW: Social security is MORE than old age pension. If you become disabled before retirement age, you are eligible for SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY. More people become disabled than you think. I think you will be eating crow if you become disabled and social security saves you from poverty and death.

Saves me from poverty? It is sending me there. Of the $17000 (gross income) I made last year $1000 of it went to social security. I don't see how not letting me invest my money NOW saves me later. That's $1000 less that could have been put into a CD or into the stock market or even a savings account. Not only that but social security alone will not save you from poverty. Most people have to get employee pension plans of some sort in order to live decently in retirement.

The vast majority of baby boomers have NO PENSION!
Pensions are a thing of the past.
Companies are not offering them anymore, except a very few and the government.
And yes, save you from poverty. If you become disabled tomorrow, you would probably be eligible for an income of well over 1000 a month. You aren't anywhere near saving that much to help you in your disability. And most people's families can only help so much.
This is a case where a socialistic program is a good program.
There is no government on earth that is purely capitalist or socialistic. Get used to it, and again, STOP WHINING! You guys accuse liberals of whining, you are the pros!

If I was disabled tomorrow I'd be taken care of by my current employer which just so happens to be the federal government but it no way involves taking money from social security. I don't need social security, that is my point. I don't need poverty protection, I don't need government assistance period.

HYPOCRITE!!!!!
You would be taken care of by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!!!
Again, it is all about YOU!
You have ZERO social consciousness about your fellow Americans.
Disgraceful!
So I guess your solution is EVERYONE can be employed by the government. That would help lower taxes, oh yeah!!!!

...this might be off topic b/c I know NOTHING bout social security, but My parents spent good money for our home in the late 90's b/c they liked the neighborhoods friendlyness and non-trashyness...but lately the town is going DOWNHILL....like for instance, Me and my friend mike were riding our bikes to the corner store thats like a quick-e-mart and on the way we cut through the City Hall park, and there was an old homeless guy sleeping on a bench...I asked the guy at the counter if he knew what that was all about and he said he knew the guy. He had been a good man, but the gov't took away his house and now he was homeless........sleeping on a bench. Thats when I kind of lost all respect for my town. This was about a month ago...About two months ago, me and my friend were drinking some soda's at night outside the same store at like 1 a.m. and literally TWO seperate drug deals went down right in front of us. Then last week when the Heat made it to the championship, this guy walks into the same place and he's TOTALLY STONED....that was more funny than anything though. But it just goes to show you how easily a town that was once a respectable little place can go downhill so ###### easily.

That is because of the gays getting married!

well, thats a given, but I'm just trying to see if we can find ANOTHER minority to blame....maybe....OLD people....there we go..we NEED TO GET RID OF THE OLD PPl

Especially the ones in North Carolina!

omg those are the WORST...

I didn't realize that you were so envious of me TQ. I'll take that as a compliment.

All right ...children!!! Settle down and behave!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Bush spent an enormous amount of political capital punching through the Medicare reforms we now have.

Old folks' prescription benefits are zillions stronger than ever in history.

You W bashing idiots should just take a break from your ignorance and see what the man punched through.

.......and you young people...shut up and buy a New York Life "FIXED" annuity plan. Don't buy life insurance which includes an annuity...you are mostly too darned selfish to watch out after your own orphans.

Buy a NYL annuity and watch your monthly check NEVER run out. (at about eight times the monthly return per month as SS.)

Settle down, buy an annuity, and watch your old years be pretty nice. (except if your like me, (smile). I will work till I die or get too sick. My job means something...go find one like that.
(www.kidscanplay.com )
Ken

while I have no idea what you said for half of that, I do agree w/ one thing....having a job for the rest of your life.....I will never be able to sit on my a$$ all day and do nothing...

Yes, Daddy

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH

Hypocrit? I'm in the military. I signed on the dotted line, so I VOLUNTARILY accepted it. That means the hardships, the suffering, and the rewards are all mine because I put my hand in the air and swore to it. With social security I didn't volunteer for anything or willingly accept anything. If anything it isn't about me. I mean the system would be gone for everyone not just me.

We all have made some poor choices in life.

The key word being choice. I did choose the military, I didn't choose social security.

So you also favor gay marriage, gays in the military, and a woman's right to CHOOSE, right, because you are all about choice, aren't you, soldier?