Pardon me if this subject has been discussed several pages back, but it seems to be on people's minds here lately.

Will the federal govt. executive branch ask Congress to bring back a military draft? Would Congress do it? What would it entail? Who would be drafted, and who gets exemptions?

I say no, the DoD doesn't want it, because Rumsfeld and his generals prefer the all-volunteer force that has worked quite well, from their viewpoint, for about 25 years already. Virtually nobody on active duty now, was on duty when we had the wicked draft. The draft failed, and its draftees didn't work or fight with the same resolve that the volunteers did.

Do we need a draft, even if the DoD doesn't want it? No; the guard and reserve components are filling the gap. In the long run, if the country keeps getting involved in wars of occupation, the size of the guard and reserve may dwindle. Many such "weekend warriors" guessed wrong, that they would not have to spend time in a combat zone, and they are being repeatedly called up or extended, only to suffer post-traumatic stress syndrome upon their return to civilian life. Some are refusing to go back to the combat zones.

If we have a draft, who would be subject to it? I think that's the flashpoint for civil war in the USA, far more than immigration or tax issues. I say, my twins don't go until after George and Laura's twins are given battlefield commisions as combat infantry; then my twins go ten miles away, to Mexico. No minister of the gospel, no senator's son, no govt. official, no student above the age of 18.01 years, would be exempt from a draft if there is any.

We should have an amendment to the Constitution clearly stating two things:

No combat or warfare can occur for more than ten days without both houses of Congress passing a DECLARATION OF WAR.

Upon declaring warfare, every member of the US Congress and Senate, regardless of age or physical condition, will be drafted directly into combat within ten days, including grandmothers and granddaughters age 18 to 88.

I believe that's considered "a modest proposal."

The draft will not happen. It would cause too many problems. Not only would it hurt the military's morale and effectiveness it would create more dissidents at home. It's one thing to have your son sign up of his own free will but to be forced to is completely different.

The draft, if it did happen, would probably include anyone 18-45 in decent physical condition. Of course children of politicans wouldn't make it on that list. They make the list and they don't want to send their sons to die, so they'll send the other American sons.

As hilarious as it would be to watch the members of congress try to carry the field gear I doubt they would have any real use other than comedy and maybe catching bullets so our marines and soldiers have a better chance of surviving.

In today's IT world, I doubt if there will be a draft. Only if the war drags out and lasts for a long time, involves several theartres, and requires a Huge mobilization. Otherwise, most wars in the future will be a "come with what you have" war. In other words, short of an unconventional war(gurella), it will be quick and decisive, yet devastating to the enemy's material, even without nuclear, chemical, or biological usage.

In the future, wars will come more and more to look like what the US conducts. And it will require less personnel. Who knows, in the eventual future, most wars will be fought with almost no humans being involved. Just my guess.

I hope theirs no draft...or I'd be seriously pissed off at you old ppl....

Don't worry Haupt. You wouldn't make the height requeirments. The same limitations that keep you off some of the rides at Disney World will keep you out of the military.

.....I'll ignore that......
But I'm no coward, I'll have you guys know. If I believe in the fight I'm being drafted for I'll do whatever I see fit to help out, and I'll go out the extra mile....but if I'm not liking what I'm doing, I won't do crap. I'll do anything just to save myself and chill out.

I we don't leave Iraq, we get involved with Iran, and N. Korea decides to take advantage of our weakness, in that case, YES

N. Korea isn't gonna do sh**....I promise you that. Kim Jung Ill whatever his name is, isn't going to risk his wonderland to screw w/ the U.S.....sick lil ######...

Why are you so sure? They are a desperate nation. Desperate people do desperate things.

And crazy people do crazy things. Kim Jong-Il is not exactly the sanest world leader out there. But I seriously doubt he'd do anything to provoke Japan, America, or China, especially the latter two. The current situation with the missile tests is just another scare tactic. They want to let America know that they are still there. I'm more worried about China than North Korea.

Bottom line, no draft without invaders on American soil. In that case though there would be "a gun behind every blade of grass."

Yeah, just like the Iraqi insurgents!



I find it laughable how younger people can't imagine a draft. The US military is ALREADY spread too thin. Bush didn't have enough to deal with Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Afghanistan part is really slipping. And where is Bin Laden? How many billions of dollars and how many dead, and where is Bin Laden?

...people would be PISSED if there was a draft......I can already see the riots...

You know, it depends. There weren't big protests in WW 2.

b/c in WW2 there was an actual enemy. The United states did not stage the attack, and it was an all around good response to the calling of war on Japan.....

We're spread thin because we've still got cold war bases in operation. How many military members are stationed in South Korea? What about the bases in Japan? Germany?

But anyways, I think that the younger generation have a belief that the older generation would learn of their mistakes and not revisit them upon their children, mistakes like the draft and the threat of nuclear holocaust. That's probably why younger people can't imagine a draft.

I imagine that if it was instituted, it would be instituted in more or less the same fashion that it was in the past.

I can't see it happening. Our current military doctrine, Network Centric Warfare, is bult for small, fast moving, highly trained and equipped military machines. Not well suited to lumbering, unmotivated, draftee armies.

I also would agree that trying to institute a draft today, barring another direct attack on the US, would be a political disaster.

they've got a good steady flow of men coming in anyways so...

U.S. Army Meets Recruiting Goal for 12th Consecutive Month
Friday, June 09, 2006

Army surpassing year's retention goal by 15%

Two of every three eligible soldiers continue to re-enlist, putting the Army, which has endured most of the fighting in Iraq, ahead of its annual goal.

The Army was 15% ahead of its re-enlistment goal of 34,668 for the first six months of fiscal year 2006, which ended March 31. More than 39,900 soldiers had re-enlisted, according to figures scheduled to be released today by the Army.

2006


Reenlistment--Goal---Percent---Army

42,859-----41,100----104

20,495----20,495-----100--Navy


16,746---16,499-----102---Marine Corps

20,395---20,295----100---Air Force



Draft Hysteria and Doomsday Conspiracies. once again, for the forseeable - DEBUNKED!!!--Enough Said!!!,

I recall that omnipresent cynical naysayer here being so joyous about recruitment issues. what in 2004. Yet, where is your joy now?



http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../606110656/1009
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198944,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...listments_x.htm
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2006/n...0609-13224.html

I've been trying to deter ppl from joining the army at my school...

Good for you!
This war of bush in Iraq is an IMMORAL UNJUSTIFIED war and it is really MURDER of Iraqis is what is the result.

As far a draft, if it is needed it will happen. It was needed in WW 2, let's hope we don't start more wars of CHOICE to make it necessary.

There was NO CONNECTION between 911 and Iraq! This war was a war of choice.
The next war may not be a war of choice, so don't get too secure about no draft, either way.


My are you naive.
The older generation has left you a big pile of CRAP, thank you bush.

thanks for fkin' up my future dad






you're welcome son

700,000 Reserve/NG
500,000 Active duty
1,200,000

138,000 in Iraq
18,000 in Afghanistan (maybe a little more)
160,000 total.

Doesn't look like that's spread too thin to me.

under the case of a war w/ china, though you better believe you'll see those reserve numbers go down....

War with china will be swift, deadly and quick for both sides. There will be no boots on the ground as it will to irradiated to do that, haud ignota loquor, unawares....

China has no means to invade the US and though the US does have the means to invade China. Doing so would play to its disadvantage. The US using its missle and both air and sea power will be the way war with China begins and quickly finishes non compos mentis.

Enough Said.

...I guess what I posted was too obvious?

...too uninformed and illiterately obfuscate factually?

So then, good buddies, are we all more or less agreed, kind of, sort of, that the draft will not return in the next ten years, in the forseeable future?

Do we agree that in the case of a real, actual, true invasion of the American homeland by an entire army of a foreign country, two million American men and women would quickly volunteer, without a draft?

Do we agree that until the prior paragraph happens, we don't need a million more military?

Do we agree that efforts by Congress to bring back the draft would result in civil disorder and big demonstrations in the street, practically class and gender and age warfare, civil war?

Seems REALLY thin in Afghanistan. Where is Bin Laden? Dead or alive? Ha ha, bush is such a LOSER

First off you have friends here not "good buddies". Except for one member that is.


No. 50 million would fight on their own with their own weapons.


Yes. That money would be more wisely spent on smart bombs, cruise missles, bunker busters, neutron bombs, etc. Weapons that would prevet anyone from invading America in the first place.


Moot point. Ain't gonna happen. The only ones talking about it are the Sambo poverty pimps like Chuckles Rangle.

LETS GO TO WAR BABY!!!!!!

The image url you posted- http://pablo45ca.tripod.com/sitebuildercon...new-retard.jpg- is hotlink protected. Can't you do anything right son??

.........you don't get it do you, boy?

Now I can't even tell the buddies from the boys.

it just pisses me off b/c I can't be seen as an equal on this site...everyone keeps on calling me son....and ben told me to hush b/c I'm not an adult....and then that other guy said I look like I'm 8 n stuff and I think ppl aren't gonna respect anything I say. And if someone like ustrader was to make a mistake like that , no one would say anything but when I do it ppl point it out.......

Yes, we are thin in Afghanistan, always have been.

Because we do not occupy Afghanistan. We merely provided support to the Northern Alliance in return for being able to hunt Al Qaeda within their country,.

Bin Laden is in Pakistan, not Afghanistan. Hes also isolated and more or less useless now, so I see no reason to incur the costs in money, relations, and human lives to go blundering in there to grab him.

agreed...he is not worth any more human life...

We can agree that YOUR type of Cindy Sheedog American would not volunteer if their country were threatened.

We agree it is this type of Pseudo American, who demands, in the name of a non-existent utopian morality, presumed to be living in a world of zero priced American liberties and freedom’s virtues paid for by others would not Volunteer.

We agree that this type freeloader, cut in line, pay no toll for being American, would not volunteer to maintain those rights and privileges, so as to ensure this American prosperity, its freedoms, its rights and its liberties, they so demand.

We agree this type of American, allowed a free ride in our freedoms from abuse; harm, deadly threat, tyranny and civil and human rights guaranteed in absolute liberty and peace at no cost at all by them would not volunteer.

We agree this is type of American fantasist, totally dependent on their unwillingness to accept that, all their American forefathers were; all that they are, and, all that their future protégé will be; came with a reality price tag. A price of unimaginable human toll of misery, sacrifice, fear, death, pain and suffering that they never paid nor are wiling to pay for.

We agree that this type American you imply will not pay those kinds of prices for that which they so polygonal like take for granted free of personal cost and charge.

We can, as well, agree that this type of most the demanding of Americans. The ones who vent the loudest for their god given absolute rights of Republicanism’s democratic liberties, freedoms, civil and human rights, are always the least likely to pay for them. Yet, are the most likely to cut in line, while allowing others to pay their toll, while they reap the fruits and nurtures for their so called rights, privileges and freedoms free of charge.

We agree that type of American you imply would NOT VOLUNTEER even if their country, their countrymen, and or even, their own family were being destroyed, raped and murdered before their very eyes.

Then again, we agree, that, thank god, that God has endowed the vast majority of Americans the intellectual capacity, moral fiber and appreciative loyalty, to really appreciate their country, grasping the world’s realities and are thusly ARE NO WERE NEAR BEING THIS TYPE OF AMERICAN FREELOADER SCREAMING PROTECT MY RIGHTS FREE OF COSTS THAT YOU IMPLY AMERICANS ARE.



NO!, In fact the prima fascia reality of this implied absurdity, stands resolutely, in self defeat, of its implied position of untidiness and incongruent reality of and about the world that exists factually.



We, agree, that you and those like you would hope so. We agree that in your hope, is evidenced of a shortsighted narrow-minded perspective, showing just how far unnoticed and unaware of the practicalities and real life possibilities of why they would call for a draft to begin with.

We also agree, in your suppositions, you self evident, just how far out of touch with the mainstream American reaction to a real threat to the country would be. It is absurdly comical just how out touch with AMERICANS these comments are.

Bellatoris Mores
Munus semper primus perficiam
Numquam cladem accipiam
Numquam signa deseram
Numquam mortuum commilitonem relinquam

TUM DII DAI DII, TUM CHUA DAI CHUA!



THAT IS ALL!!

by the look of the inumerous pestiratious tantinius sequences of numerical effeciencies....one must impose a wistriatic restricted bioped to compose it.............

Bravo!
Now that is satire.

I concure

Nice circle jerk guys.

Thanks; we were just joining you.

Don't you often end yours with three ?

Back on topic.
The US should enact military conscription again.
This country is turning into soft nanny-state worse than Scandanavia which has conscription...

Boon Mee, are you suggesting that the Scantynavians are stronger because they have a draft? I thought Rumsy and the generals don't want an American draft because the draftees didn't pull their weight. In fact, I think the VFW and American Legion bitched real loudly when Rumsfeld said that.

Okay, I'll take the bait: if the USA has a draft, who goes and who never gets considered? Women? Gays? People over 30? The rich? Priests? Handicapeed? Congressperson's sex partners? Why, or why not?

lol, easy for Boon Mee to say...he's old as hell prolly

What Haupt is really saying is I have no idea what you said Trader, I have not passed reading 101 yet.

So I must boorishly pretense meanings to the meaningless. Though apparently of some meaning to his cohorts, TQ & FITS, who concurred there was meaning in their empty hollowed proclamation of pitiable success. As if there were, some intellectual merit and meaning in made up words and sadly pathetic attempts to respond in some meritorious way as if in a battle they all are so disengaging unable to fight meritoriously with meaning and merit.

Hey, FITs TQ, what do these words mean. I mean since you understood the incomprehensible maybe you two Giants of satire can enlighten us in your common cause of human endeavors.

Inumerous

pestiratious

tantinius

effeciencies

wistriatic

bioped


“The successful are not prone to the ambiguities of insecurity or being intimidated by that which they find incomprehensible and indisputable.

Instead,they advance, not only to comprehend in victorious dispute. But they engage, provoke, prod, befuddle or otherwise manage to manipulate confuse and demoralize the demanding and threatening elements of their adversaries and competitors.”-TRADER

Now in that light where is the beef here girls?

"A fool, is bamboozled, most assuredly, when he and his cohorts have no idea of how foolish he and they are in presenting, as emeritus such imprudent unintelligible retorts yet assumed as something other than meaninglessness."-Trader

Beyond Haupt’s ineptitude, the larger con here is the fraud by those that know better TQ and FIT’s. Who in common life endeavors yet pretend they gain meaning and comprehension a in a matchless game of ill fit and ill prepared banality.

What is really comical and sadly pathetic, is that both TQ and FITS, having a better intellectual capacity than Haupt to respond, pretense to comprehend words that are non existent in a sad example of presumptions of satirical prêt-à-porter sub par intellect on their part.

Yet, the defeated, as we know, often seek to proclaim meager victories from utter defeats. Don’t they?


Bellatoris Mores
Munus semper primus perficiam
Numquam cladem accipiam
Numquam signa deseram
Numquam mortuum commilitonem relinquam

TUM DII DAI DII, TUM CHUA DAI CHUA!



THAT IS ALL!!

...i've come to just skip past your posts...I have no clue what you're saying...

haupt, you catch on quickly. ustrader is a fine gentleman of wit and character, a man with a fine vocabulary and great experience. For some reason that maybe only ustrader knows, he likes to write stupidly. Even you, a precocious teenager, can see that he doesn't communicate. We've tried to help him, even by shaming him, but he persists. So, almost all of us just scroll on by. I don't know how old he is; quite possibly he's younger than I am. I doubt it's a sign of senility; it's just his preference. He's harmless and he means well, and sometimes he comes up with some great comments or relevant information.

Boon Mee, on the other hand, may not be too old for the draft. The idea of a military draft or conscription has always been to take the most fit young men "in the flower of their youth" and use them as 'cannon fodder.' Today's military is so technical, however, that they need to entice smart kids who can learn at university level, and the troops today are bright and well trained. However, unfortunately, stupid bombs kill them in Iraq more quickly than our "smart bombs" with moronic IQ's can kill the insurgents.

The volunteer military is working well, except it makes it too easy for the rest of the college-age guys to avoid national service. Congressman Charles Rangel, a Black New York City man with an Hispanic surname who served in Korea, says everybody should serve a few years either in the military or in alternative national service. But that assumes that serving the govt. also serves the nation, and that's not true at all.