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Razin
Bush admits the CIA runs secret prisons
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday acknowledged for the first time that the CIA runs secret prisons overseas and said tough interrogation forced terrorist leaders to reveal plots to attack the United States and its allies.

Bush said 14 suspects — including the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks and architects of the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole and the U.S. Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania — had been turned over to the Defense Department and moved to the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, for trial.

"This program has been, and remains, one of the most vital tools in our war against the terrorists," Bush said.

"Were it not for this program, our intelligence community believes that al-Qaida and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland."

Releasing information declassified just hours earlier, Bush said the capture of one terrorist just months after the Sept. 11 attacks had led to the capture of another and then another, and had revealed planning for attacks using airplanes, car bombs and anthrax.

Nearing the fifth anniversary of Sept. 11, Bush pressed Congress to quickly pass administration-drafted legislation authorizing the use of military commissions for trials of terror suspects. Legislation is needed because the Supreme Court in June said the administration's plan for trying detainees in military tribunals violated U.S. and international law.

The president's speech, his third in a recent series about the war on terror, gave him an opportunity to shore up his administration's credentials on national security two months before congressional elections at a time when Americans are growing weary of the war in Iraq.

Democrats, hoping to make the elections a referendum on Bush's policies in Iraq and the war on terror, urged anew that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld be made to step down. They argued that the White House has mishandled the war, mismanaged the detainee system and failed to prosecute terrorists.

"For five years, Democrats have stood ready to work with the president and the Republican Congress to establish sound procedures to bring terrorists to justice," said Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. "Unfortunately, President Bush ignored the advice of our uniformed military and set up a flawed system that failed to prosecute a single terrorist and was ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court."

With the transfer of the 14 men to Guantanamo, there currently are no detainees being held by the CIA, Bush said. A senior administration official said the CIA had detained fewer than 100 suspected terrorists in the history of the program.

Still, Bush said that "having a CIA program for questioning terrorists [b]will continue to be crucial to getting lifesaving information[/b]."

Earlier this year, an anti-torture panel at the United Nations recommended the closure of Guantanamo and criticized alleged U.S. use of secret prisons and suspected delivery of prisoners to foreign countries for questioning. Some Democrats and human rights groups argued that the CIA's secret prison system did not allow monitoring for abuses and they hoped that it would be shut down.

"He finally acknowledged the elephant in the room that everybody had always been talking about," said Jumana Musa, advocacy director for Amnesty International USA.{ 030.gif }

"I think what surprised me is he seemed to be asking Congress to legalize it through statutes, essentially allowing him to continue to detain people in secret by sort of putting forth all this information that they got from these folks and somehow using that to justify what has been recognized by U.N. committees as an unlawful act and contrary to our treaty obligations."

The president declined to disclose the location or details of the detainees' confinement or the interrogation techniques.

"I cannot describe the specific methods used — I think you understand why," Bush said in the East Room, where families of some of those who died in the Sept. 11 attacks heartily applauded him when he promised to finally bring the perpetrators to justice.

"If I did, it would help the terrorists learn how to resist questioning and to keep information from us that we need to prevent new attacks on our country. But I can say the procedures were tough, and they were safe and lawful and necessary."

Bush insisted that the detainees were not tortured.

"I want to be absolutely clear with our people, and the world: The United States does not torture," Bush said. "It's against our laws, and it's against our values. I have not authorized it, and I will not authorize it."

Bush said the information from terrorists in CIA custody has played a role in the capture or questioning of nearly every senior al-Qaida member or associate detained by the U.S. and its allies since the program began.

He said they include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused Sept. 11 mastermind, as well as Ramzi Binalshibh, an alleged would-be 9/11 hijacker, and Abu Zubaydah, who was believed to be a link between Osama bin Laden and many al-Qaida cells.

He said interrogators have succeeded in getting information that has helped make photo identifications, pinpoint terrorist hiding places, provide ways to make sense of documents, identify voice recordings and understand the meaning of terrorist communications, al-Qaida's travel routes and hiding places,

The administration had refused until now to acknowledge the existence of CIA prisons. Bush said he was going public because the United States has largely completed questioning the suspects, and also because the CIA program had been jeopardized by the Supreme Court ruling. { ohmy.gif }

The Supreme Court ruled that prisoner protections spelled out by the Geneva Conventions should extend to members of al-Qaida. In addition to torture and cruel treatment, the treaties ban "outrages against personal dignity" and "humiliating and degrading treatment."

Administration officials said they were concerned the ruling left U.S. personnel vulnerable to be prosecuted under the War Crimes Act because the language under the Geneva Conventions was so vague.

The Supreme Court ruling put a damper on the CIA's program, virtually putting the interrogation of detainees on hold until such prohibitions like "outrages against personal dignity" could be defined by law.

"We're not interrogating now because CIA officials feel like the rules are so vague that they cannot interrogate without being tried as war criminals, and that's irresponsible," Bush said in an interview with "CBS Evening News."

The administration-drafted legislation would authorize the defense secretary to convene a military commission with five members, plus a judge to preside. It would guarantee a detainee's access to military counsel but eliminate other rights common in military and civilian courts. The bill would allow reliable hearsay and potentially coerced testimony to be used as evidence in court, as well as the submission of classified evidence "outside the presence of the accused."

Senate Republican leaders hailed Bush's proposal.

"It's important to remember these defendants are not common criminals," said Senate Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "Rather, many are terrorists, sworn enemies of the United States."

But Democrats and GOP moderates warned that the plan would set a dangerous precedent, ensuring the legislation would not likely sail through Congress unchanged.

Republican Sens. John Warner, John McCain and Lindsey Graham have drafted a rival proposal. Unlike the administration's plan, the senators' proposal would allow a defendant to access to all evidence used against them. The plan by Warner, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, also would prohibit coerced testimony.

Graham, R-S.C., said withholding evidence from a war criminal sets a dangerous precedent other nations could follow. "Would I be comfortable with (an American service member) going to jail with evidence they never saw? No," Graham said.

Also on Wednesday, the Pentagon put out a new Army field manual that spells out appropriate conduct on issues including prisoner interrogation. The manual applies to all the armed services but not the CIA. It bans torture and degrading treatment of prisoners, for the first time specifically mentioning forced nakedness, hooding and other procedures that have become infamous during the war on terror.
ustrader
QUOTE (Razin @ Sep 7 2006, 11:31 AM) *
Bush admits the CIA runs secret prisons
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

Dribble.....

.........Dribble....



Shock and awe baby, Shock and Awe!!!
Gore_Lost
I think I would be disappointed if there weren't any CIA prisons. It is simply dumb this push to get it to be admitted publicly.
Razin
UStrader, dear fellow - so long time not see you !

oops, seems a lot has changed durging my prolonged absence here. like - why I don't see so painfully familiar "That is all" after each your post - what happened ! ohmy.gif I hope it is not due to extreme distress caused you by "Leftist cronies" ? popcorn.gif
Ben-T
Posted in wrong thread
Razin
as usually, Ben_t's genuis yet uncomprehesible comments ! smile.gif
Ben-T
I posed in the wrong thread. So I edited it.
ustrader
QUOTE (Razin @ Sep 7 2006, 02:55 PM) *
UStrader, dear fellow - so long time not see you !

oops, seems a lot has changed durging my prolonged absence here. like - why I don't see so painfully familiar "That is all" after each your post - what happened ! ohmy.gif I hope it is not due to extreme distress caused you by "Leftist cronies" ? popcorn.gif



Покинутые - проигравшие

Как дела?

Извините, номер не отвечает.

Это - все! wink.gif



Razin
Arbour wants CIA secret jails abolished

QUOTE
The top human rights official at the United Nations urged the U.S. to abolish its use of CIA secret prisons for suspected terrorists, her spokesman said Friday.
U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour "urges that the program of secret detention be abolished,"
Nomad
Golly, we better hop to it. Some ignorant corrupt UN c*** has given us an order....................

I guess this b!tch thinks Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton is still president.

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Ben-T
The worst they seem to be able to come up with is waterboarding.

If waterboarding is torture than most of the stuff I've seen done to passed out drunk people at parties is in clear violation of international law.
Sheriff.
QUOTE
Покинутые - проигравшие

Как дела?

Извините, номер не отвечает.

Это - все!


Ustrader, а ты знаёшь русский мат? Мне это интересно... Если хочешь, научу?
P.S.: If you didn't understand my post I'll translate it. smile.gif
Laredo
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 12 2006, 08:08 PM) *
Golly, we better hop to it. Some ignorant corrupt UN c*** has given us an order....................

I guess this b!tch thinks Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton is still president.

011.gif 011.gif 011.gif 018.gif 018.gif 018.gif



No, I'm quite sure they can tell this mess is not the work of democrats.

What slays me, is that they admitted to losing bin Laden. LOL!!! Two days before all the hub bub..I think it was a smoke screen for it.

Here we are celebrating 9/11 and Bush lets bin Laden, the family business partner and friend, walk away and get "lost". You buy that I have ocean front in Iowa I'll sell you...LOL!!!
Ben-T
Who cares if we have Bin Laden? Hes neutralized as a threat. He is incapable of running Al Qaeda from his little fortress in Waziristan. Currently, the costs of going in there to get him do not outweigh the benefits. Indeed, there are no benefits left except the sentimental value of having him, considering his isolated state.
ft.niagara
QUOTE (Ben-T @ Sep 14 2006, 01:23 AM) *
Who cares if we have Bin Laden? Hes neutralized as a threat. He is incapable of running Al Qaeda from his little fortress in Waziristan. Currently, the costs of going in there to get him do not outweigh the benefits. Indeed, there are no benefits left except the sentimental value of having him, considering his isolated state.

That is probably true except for AlJazerra who provide him a forum, a world wide forum. The fact that he has escaped makes him God Like to some, or God Is On Our Side to others.


QUOTE (Sheriff. @ Sep 13 2006, 02:59 PM) *
Ustrader, а ты знаёшь русский мат? Мне это интересно... Если хочешь, научу?
P.S.: If you didn't understand my post I'll translate it. smile.gif

I would like a translation, please.
Georgie-Porgie
QUOTE (ft.niagara @ Sep 15 2006, 01:58 AM) *
That is probably true except for AlJazerra who provide him a forum, a world wide forum. The fact that he has escaped makes him God Like to some, or God Is On Our Side to others.


Many experts seem to feel that he would be more of a problem as a "martyr", than as a living being. It is very possible that they don't want to take the chance that they will have to kill him. huh.gif
ft.niagara
QUOTE (Georgie-Porgie @ Sep 15 2006, 02:25 AM) *
It is very possible that they don't want to take the chance that they will have to kill him. huh.gif

If they do have access to him, they perhaps could do a James Bond and kill him in secret. At least that would stop the AlJazerra factor. That AlJazerra network operates like a Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally for all sorts of crap. There is a fine line between news and propaganda. To them, propaganda is news.
Fit2BThaied
Our president has now admitted that the CIA did, indeed, operate prisons. And that they do or did, indeed, torture their prisoners.

Did the administration previously FLATLY DENY that such things happened? I notice this press release doesn't say, "Oh, and we lied to you, repeatedly and intentionally."

Like I said, Jimmy Carter was pretty much a failure as President, but I recall his promise, "I will never lie to you." And I never noticed he got caught in any substantial lie, except maybe that giant attack rabbit in the water.
ft.niagara
QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Sep 15 2006, 05:26 AM) *
Our president has now admitted that the CIA did, indeed, operate prisons. And that they do or did, indeed, torture their prisoners.

The President is charged with protecting its citizens. You were charged with collecting the taxes. Your job was totally structured with rules, yet I am sure that you used much 'discression' especially with hispanics. His job requires even greater discression. I and the majority of voters felt he was the best man of the two presented to do the job. End of story.

In a democracy, you live with the result until the next election, and then try again. Unless of course you decide to go elsewhere, in which case your criticism is moot.
dixon76710
QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Sep 14 2006, 10:26 PM) *
Our president has now admitted that the CIA did, indeed, operate prisons. And that they do or did, indeed, torture their prisoners.


Revealing how your predetermined beliefs prevent you from even comprehending the plain meaning of the words. DELUSIONAL seems to be an appropriate description. MARK
Fit2BThaied
The word is spelled "discretion," and the illegal Mexican met the rules for claiming exemptions. Now, then, my questions are:

Did Bush and his staff admit that the CIA did torture people, or had their secondary agents do so?

Did Bush, etc., ever deny there were such prisons?

If they denied it, have they admitted they lied?

If the answers are no, yes, and yes, I'm happy.

Care to answer the relevant on-topic questions, or are the true answers yes, no, no?
dixon76710
QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Sep 16 2006, 09:33 AM) *
Did Bush and his staff admit that the CIA did torture people, or had their secondary agents do so?


No.

QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Sep 16 2006, 09:33 AM) *
Did Bush, etc., ever deny there were such prisons?


Yes.

QUOTE (Fit2BThaied @ Sep 16 2006, 09:33 AM) *
If they denied it, have they admitted they lied?


No. MARK
Laredo
Man, look at the justifications for being American terrorists.

We do not nor do we have to engage in torture tactics. Explain this statement from Bush to me. He claims to have the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks in our control. Where is his trial and if he has the mastermind, what the heck were doing invading Afghanistan and the Taliban? Also, since Saudi Arabia is the one who funds the terrorists, why haven't we invaded them? Why don't we go in and get rid of those who fund them?

Oh, yeah, I forgot our president's oil connection with these people and then there's....

Nomad
QUOTE
Did Bush and his staff admit that the CIA did torture people, or had their secondary agents do so?

Please define "torture".
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Bushisacoward
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 18 2006, 04:06 AM) *
Please define "torture".
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My wife's cooking
Fit2BThaied
Having to eat Thai food.
sea_of_red
QUOTE (Razin @ Sep 11 2006, 03:21 AM) *


Good luck with that! The US Congress has been trying to abolish the CIA's secret prisons since they were first exposed by the Roosevelt Commission in 1958 ( sorta, the commission ran from about '56 to '58, I'm not sure if the report came out then or a couple of years later). The Church commission found similiar things in the 70's.
TheOnly way to stop this sort of thing is by killing the CIA. It's just to easy for a spy agency with a secret budget to rent a room in some out-of-the-way motel and keep someone there. Dump the body when you are finished and that's that.
Think this doesn't happen? The Church Commission found the CIA was running over 7,000 ILLEGAL programs, and they admitted that they had just scratched the surface.
These sort of things are part and parcel of ANY Spy Agency. As long as there are spy agencies, things will happen. The most that can be done is forcing the CIA to change the name from 'prison' to 'guest house'.
Wake up morons, there is a real world out there and they DON'T play by any rules. If we play by the rules, we will lose at which point the concept of rules is finished. Forever. What is needed is a temporary relaxation of the rules with a set period. Say for 5 years, the CIA can arrest and detain ANY foreigner it gets it's hands on. When the 5 years is up, they are all set loose. No questions asked.
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