This forum is just getting completely flooded with illegal immigrantion stuff. This this, basically, is your one stop thread. If its got to do with the illegal immigration debate, post it here.

Same idea as the Islam: Evil? thread.

I knew several "good" illegal aliens. First, the late Señorita Flores, without whom my son-in-law and grandson could not have been born. Really nice lady, probably came over from the hills above Monterrey about ....1935? She lived to be about 100. Taught her children to respect American law, learn English, work hard, etc. Her daughter, Betty, spoke perfect English because in her school days in Texas, you got whipped for speaking Spanish at school, even in the playground.

Oscar. Hard worker, even when he didn't know that colored towels shouldn't have bleach. Last heard of in Houston, Texas. I used that towel at the pool today, bleach stains and all. It says in big letters, "MEXICO."

Jose Aurelio (or Jose Orlando, I forget). My tour guide in Chiapas. Last heard of in Mississippi. Honest as the day is long, just wanting to escape poverty and better himself.

Eric's wife. She was in the final stages of labor when I met her outside my trailer (yeah, I'm trailer trash, and proud of it). I took Eric's shift for him that night.

And my neighbors in the Montrose, mostly from the same state of Mexico (Guerrero?). Not warriors, hard workers, trying to learn English. Never stole a penny off of me.

Oh, and that taxpayer we audited in Houston. Came trembling into my office (I was the boss of the auditors) and told how he was sending money back to family on some barren hovel on a ranch outside Real de Catorce. He was so nervous he didn't see the map on my wall, five feet wide: MAPA REPUBLICA DE MEJICO. I showed him where his home was and he said, "Si." We gave him the tax credits he was entitled to.

I doubt the Mayan student in my Spanish student was legal; she was from Belize. But the Iranian student in the same class was legal; I had to tell him during the hostage crisis that if a bunch of Oklahoma City redneck ignorant violent bigots tried to lynch him, run into the nearest church and cry, "Sanctuary!"

The cook at the restaurant where I was a dishwasher (at nights, when I was tax auditor on day shift). Never saw a two-story building until he crossed over at Del Rio or Eagle Pass. Studying for an architecture degree. You may be living in a house he designed.

Anecdotes, for what they're worth.

Here's a news story from yesterday, courtesy of Yahoo, if the link still works:

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/news/ci_4334148

Hey, that newspaper is in Richard Nixon's home town.

The lead paragraphs of the study:

"Southern California's Latino immigrants gradually lose Spanish fluency and after a few generations pick up English as their sole language, according to a study released Wednesday.

Questioning arguments that immigrants from Latin American countries threaten to create a separate, monolingual society in America, the study by UC Irvine and Princeton University finds that by the third generation only 7 percent of Mexican-American grandchildren speak fluent Spanish.

"This absolutely knocks out the idea that people are resisting learning English," said Ruben G. Rumbaut, a professor of sociology at UC Irvine."

From my post above, Señorita Flores didn't learn more than 29 words of English in her last 60-some years here, but the teenagers on my list, above, were learning English before they crossed over. Sra. Flores' grandson (my son-in-law) doesn't speak Spanish.

This is stupid. This is a one stop shop to take on Ben T? Kind of like drawing a line in the sand stuff. And Fit along with.
What is really silly is Fit was essentially a law enforcer at the IRS. Alot of people do not agree with the tax code. I know one fellow personally who has made it his mission never to pay income tax. There is debate whether or not personal income tax is constitutional, yet it is necessary for the common good. Unfortunately necessary. I am sure that Fit would say rules are rules as he extracted people's money at differing degrees based on their circumstances.
In the same way, controlled immigration would seem to be a logical policy for the common good. Also in the same way, someone should enforce the rules. I for one don't see the need for a one stop Ben T shop.

ft niagra, surely this forum is big enough to have a debate about the IRC. Shall we debate it in US Politics? Ecnomics? All that Ben has started doing, as a good moderator, is asking for folks (like Gore_Lost) not to start up 49 new threads on the same subject, which floods the front page of the "new posts" area.

I decided to jump the gun and post twice in three days. You're welcome to post immigrant issues on the immigrant thread. Hey, isn't Niagra Falls right on the border, and didn't the German-born John Kay sing on both sides of the falls, as Sparrow and then Steppenwolf? And John Kay's not even his real name!! But neither was "Mars Bonfire." Know any good buffalo jokes?

I have been away from the BearPit for probably over six months. I do not remember either of you when I left and you are both regulars now. If Gore Lost is flooding the place with overposts, Ben should PM him and ask him to contain himself and moderate him. That is what moderators do, not post One Stop Threads.

Niagara Falls spans both sides of the border, it is not on the border. I never heard of John Kay, but many performers worked both sides of the border including tight rope walkers. Most of the Buffalo jokes I have heard seem to do with I live in a nicer place than you (Thailand) sort of slant, except that Buffalo will never experience a tsunami. And as far as illegal immigration, I was talking with a Polish immigrant today who complained about the preferential treatment the Spanish language is receiving verses her experience when coming here. She speaks Polish, German, and English.

Your bias toward immigration seems to be open borders, even though you say no. In your retirement you left the country, why? Taxes, weather, certainly not family, political dismay with your homeland? Or is it too personal to ask? Somehow an expatriot on a government pension active on a political forum is a disconnect to me.

Thanks, Niagra, for your kind reply, which I didn't deserve.

I'm not for open borders, as you'd see if you read all my posts (that would be cruel and unusual punishment, though ). I'm opposed to racism, including the kind of national origin-native language-immigrant bashing that's all too common in the USA nowadays. Instead, I get to live in Thailand, where the anti-foreigner xenophobia seems more rampant (this is a bad month, or year).

Working 22 years at the IRS was extremely difficult and busy, and the field I was in (Examination Division problem resolution) was rapidly filling up my days with 60% fruitcakes, who could not be reasoned with, so I took early retirement. Family? I was a bit weary of singlehandedly raising up to four teenagers at a time, all 9th grade dropouts, potheads, and drinkers. So I moved first to Chiapas, Mexico; then to Brownsville; back to Texas; finally to Thailand.

I don't fit into handy stereotypes, like "straight father of two children" or "Hardcore Marxist" or "weak, passive ------."

I realize the immigration arguments which are still raging in the USA have been a rough time for sanity.

After leaving the Niagra Falls area, John Kay wrote an American history lyric, "Monster." Great stuff.

Welcome back. Are your philosophies and pet subjects easy to pigeon-hole?

Columbia University

An Anti-American MADRASA, principled in an intellectual peculiarly of A TRUTH and of selective rights to Free Speech.

Yet, on this September 2006 day teeming of intolerance more akin to Fascist Nazism than Liberalism. Articulated at a mere disagreeable view of truth and a right of free expression as if unworthy.

Indeed, an infamous day for Academic pursuits of free thought and expression where a voice is better shouted down than heard in fair and honest debate.

Is this Columbia University's view of a free society or is it Hugo Chavez's view instead?

emails:

jb2058@columbia.edu,aho@cs.columbia.edu,jalvar@law.columbia.edu,jj20@columbia.ed
u,bp2160@columbia.edu,mt2051@columbia.edu,nd2007@columbia.edu,wsw2103@columbia.ed
u,baldwin@tc.columbia.edu ,boultbee@tc.columbia.edu,oc25@columbia.edu,cherow-o'leary@tc.columbia.edu,alc2142@columbia.edu,destin@tc.columbia.edu,fuhrman@tc
.columbia.edu, ogarcia@tc.columbia.edu, jsr167@columbia.edu

Source and Youtube video.

http://bwog.net/index.php?page=post&articl...65#comment_form

Ben you still suck for trying to isolate illegal immigration. I know you don't live in the US but it is actually a huge issue here. I think it is ridiculous how someone who claims to be a political realist would not be able to see an issue of sovereingty in this? Selective pedantics is my guess...

I wonder how long it will be until Mexico realizes it can dump it's hiv+ population on us like Castro dumped his prisoners onto Florida? I think this individual is par for the course for the average illegal alien. Not that he is carrying hiv, but that his whole goal is to hurt and kill others. The main problem aside from his gruesome and disgusting crime is that he has been deported before. In my humble opinion he should be given the death penalty. If an Al_Queada member crossed our border, raped a five year old and infected that child with hiv we would be up in arms, but I guess if they fall under the Bush's willing workers designation then it's not terrorism.


ARTICLE LINK:
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/inde...1300.xml&coll=3


ARTICLE EXERPT:

And yesterday, perhaps tiny Consuela Maria Luisa Alvarez Gutierrez came across the Rio Bravo del Norte on her mother's back. Maybe when she finishes school in Omaha, Nebraska, she'll get a scholarship to Harvard, become a lawyer in North Carolina, and then a Republican governor. You go, girl! Just don't harrass any 16 year old pageboys or pagegirls.

If moving to Mexico would feed and clothe my grandkids...and I could not give them a decent life here...I would sneak into Mexico.
(and I am a good sneaker. I snuck into the soviet union...and out... too. )
Bean

Ken I think you fail to see that the invaders are fueled by greed and nationalism. They have jobs in Mexico but come here to make more. They are the source of socialism and reconquista movements.



Intro to Atzlan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIW-BZ8oLrk

http://www.aztlan.net/quest_for_aztlan.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQxy-q2rDpI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrAFRGJ67nA

Cost of Illegal Immigrants
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/sr12.cfm

They already have jobs? Ha! Where's all the emoticons for laughing out loud, rolling on the floor laughing my arse off? I don't doubt that among the millions who have emigrated illegally from Latin America, a few of them already had 'real jobs,' but I'd guess less than 1% - and they probably could have gotten to the USA legally! Maria, the 14 year old operating the laundromat in Ciudad Cuahtemoc, Chihuahua, was supported by her 5 brothers in Omaha, who had no jobs when they left Chihuahua. My tour guide, Jose Orlando, had no job in Chiapas, so he went to Mississippi. Lester, my Honduran houseboy, had no real job so he went to Houston. Millions more such examples exist.

Hey, why don't you BOYCOTT every place and every product that hires illegal immigrant labor? Stop eating. Stop having your lawn cut, and don't use motels or restaurants.

Why not just merge the US and Mexico. Open the borders and let the wetbacks pour across. I look forward to the day when in every American city you can buy a slab of meat encrusted with maggots from a street vendor. or getting dental work done for $10.00 US. And going to a donkey show or getting a BJ only costs $5.00 US. Yes lets let these vermin infest us futher so we can all live like those in Juarez or Tijuana.

I never saw maggots on meat in Mexico - you must be hallucinating or misinformed or uninformed. The dental work I got done cost $30 for an extraction, versus $90 in Brownsville. Thailand is cheaper by a long shot. A blow job costs more than $5, especially in Thailand; I don't know what the going price is in your home town.

Jesus died on the cross for Mexicans. He didn't think they were vermin, nor that you and I are. But we were all described by that line in Amazing Grace,...'a wretch like me.' Love your enemies, even your illegal wetback Hispanic enemies for whom Jesus died.

Curious, Fit.

I guess I'm rankled by your continued condemanation of the U.S., the majority of Christians here (who do not believe the way you choose to believe), our government, etc. Do you preach at the folks in Thailand as you do on these forums? You are there, have neighbors and friends there, live there. Surely, there must issues there worthy of your advice and critique that are germane to where you live, buy things, (and pay taxes)? And you may for all that I know. They apparently have your admiration and support, or you wouldn't live there. Correct? What other reason would you live there??

This one question has occurred repeatedly while reading your posts: Why would an expatriat spend so much time in criticizing and interacting negatively with folks (via these forums) in a country where they they no longer live, nor experience the things to which they give advice from thousands of miles away? And, have so little of a positive nature to say about the country that gave you an opportunity for a free education, freedom to dissent and believe however you choose, gave you several opportunties (apparently) to make a good living, had good enough health care to keep you alive to your present 5th decade of life, is paying you a pension...........shall I go on?

Or, maybe I'm wrong. Do you come here occasionally to live( or work here) enough to experience what you support or what your criticize?

Or, do you rely on correspondence from people who do live here and get your information from them, second-hand?


What is your beef with the U.S.?

If you feel so bitter, why not refuse the pension it is paying you if you are so filled with dislike about the system? That would seem an honorable thing to do and make a loud statement of opposition.

Good questions, decently asked. I'll try to answer in bold print.Here on these forums, each of us only sees a distorted caricature of the others. I'm not so filled with dislike about other things. To quote Kipling: if you can bear to see the things you've given your life to, twisted and broken by knaves, to make a trap for fools; if you can stoop and build them up with worn out tools...etc....then you are a man (an adult). I added up my public service recently: military, civil service, federal, state, local, etc. - roughly 30 years. The country isn't the same today as it was just ten years ago. Six years ago. Another thing: I don't hide my citizenship here, but I have to say, "'I disagree with much of what George W. Bush does, and sometimes, I am ashamed of my country."

The open border zealots and chamber of commerce assure us that mexican illegal immigration is of no major concern. A new report affirms the obvious, the mexican border is the most out-of-control border on the planet!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lapl..._leads_in.html
« A national library is shuttered | Main | WHO targets chagas disease »
Mexico leads in migrations

A World Bank report released Sunday shows that Mexico sends more migrants abroad than any other country on earth exceeding even the flows from nations that are much bigger, much poorer or convulsed by war and famine.
Two million Mexicans left their homeland between 2000 and 2005, according to the study, most of them to seek employment in the United States. China, whose population is more than 12 times larger than that of Mexico, saw 1.95 million of its citizens leave the country. More than 1.8 million Pakistanis left their homeland. Neighboring India produced 1.4 million migrants.
Economic migrants dwarfed the flows of refugees. For example, just over a half-million residents of Sudan fled that war-torn nation between 2000 and 2005, according to data from the World Bank's report, World Development Indicators 2007.

Drug Cartel Hiring Teens as Hitmen in Texas
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4716022.html

TRUCKERS BOYCOTT BORDER STATES

"Circle-the-Wagons Blockade Against Anarchy"

S T O P the

Bush-Kennedy Plan to Give Trucker-Jobs to Mexican Drivers

All 48 CONUS state legislature capital-buildings

circled & shut down

National Capital U-Circled; Bumper-to-Bumper, Three-Wide

Monday – Tuesday - Wednesday

APRIL 23, 24, 25— 2007

By Frosty Wooldridge
www.NewsWithViews.com
March 26, 2007
The CB-radios are rumbling already— we have a 'war' on our hands.
Do you agree with the Bush-Kennedy Plan to "outsource" your job to a Mexican national driver ? Do you remember how the Congress stood up when the farmers circled the Capital with John Deere tractors, and tied-up the city big-time ?
President Bush and his ally, Sen. Teddy Kennedy have already set in motion a process to displace American truckers out of their jobs within 45 days— with their insidious Mexican trucker pilot program. Bush signed a Bill that allows thousands of substandard 18-wheeler long haul rigs from Mexico onto America's Interstate and local highway system. Mexican drivers, who can't read, speak or understand English— receive full access to America's highways.
What are we thinking ?

Bush, Kennedy and friends place all American motorists at risk— Mexican drivers with average 6th grade educations gained in a Third World country, gross incompetence and habitually drunk Mexican drivers— as well as their un-inspected, unsafe trucks and trailers. Not only will American truckers lose their jobs, but American motorists become collateral damage in accidents guaranteed to occur—closing highways and tying up traffic in the process.
The Bush-Kennedy action mandates a new beginning— where American truckers' jobs vanish with a new version of the familiar song, "Mexican drivers do the jobs that American truckers won't do— for slave-wages."
This "takeover" will happen in gradual stages. Talk About Depressing.

First, the independent haulers will see their loads undercut by Mexican drivers. Later, Mexican drivers will chip away at produce- and contract- haulers.
Given just a little time— Wal-Mart and CostCo (Swift) and Home Depot will hire Mexican drivers at half the wages of American truckers— with no fringe-benefits.
Mexican truckers, ever looking for black market loads of people, drugs and products, will create new smuggling routes across the USA. How will the 3,000 DHS-ICE officers and our loyal state police in the lower-48 handle that additional workload ?
Given enough time, the Bush-Kennedy duo will see to it that American trucking follows the auto industry, construction, drywall, painting, landscape and fast food industry— into the toilet.
Trucker Boycott and Blockade; 21-23 April 2007

Therefore, truckers from four border states— Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California— and beyond, may smell the bacon and choose to participate in a trucker boycott; April 23, 24, 25, 2007. Those truckers that want to stop this latest insult to America's working class by this president and Congress may elect to shut their rigs down for the entire three days.
Lack of Appreciation MUST Be Properly Rewarded

It is high-time to show Bush and his sorry friends in Congress that truckers are the lifeblood of our nation— and can paralyze this country in a New York minute— if our sorry-assed leaders continue on this national suicide mission of killing jobs for American truckers. Additionally, truckers may surround all 48 state capitals with their rigs nestled nose-to-tail— park 'em, and walk away !
Mr. Bush and Mr. Kennedy, if you and your allies in Congress decide to spit on American truckers, we'll see who can spit into the next pasture!
Who is Frosty— How and why does he know?

As a starving school-teacher, I trucked for 21 summers and three solid years for United Van Lines, Consolidated and Single Source. My certificate is still valid today. I know the saving grace that truckers represent— and the ultimate power of good truckers who work together for the common good.
We deliver everything that Americans need on a daily basis: food, gasoline, lumber, cars, water— EVERYTHING !
Mr. Bush, Senator Kennedy, and the sponsors of the flakey Bill (Reps. Gutierrez & Flake) in the House— you won't be able to wipe your butt without us delivering the Charmin!
As Wanda Piety at www.SaveAmericaFund.com said, "When Bush & Kennedy invite the Mexican truckers into the USA, the U.S. citizen-taxpayer truckers will lose their futures, and it will seal the tragic fate of this country as we lose our sovereignty, Constitution and ultimately our governing body, liberties and freedoms. Anarchy and lawlessness is suicide."
"Truck Out" talking-points and Action-Steps:

1. Bush-Kennedy have already taken action to implement the plan, in less than 45 days, to allow anarchy— tens of thousands (17,000 or more to start) of Mexican trucks and truckers into our country with no checks and balances in place. There are not nearly enough qualified U.S. DOT inspectors, even if we wanted to inspect the Mexican trucks and drivers.
Rigs will be allowed to cross the border with no weight regulations, no load restrictions (as their loads will not be under the same security scrutiny that our truckers' loads have to comply to, which opens the door to more drugs, terrorist, weapons and human smuggling), some with no liability or collision insurance in place, some truckers with no driver-licenses and some with criminal driving records, no background checks, bald-tires and trucks that are not regulated to adhere to our strict safety regulations.
2. Once again the illegal aliens will be given special treatment by our government, above that of our legal American citizens and legal immigrants, which allows them to break laws in our country that our truckers cannot get away with— or our licenses would be pulled, our trucks impounded, and potentially criminally charged.
3. These foreign-national truckers have low-overhead (few expenses) and thus can haul for far less per load than our own truckers— and will take our jobs. This is not a threat, or something that may happen— it has been in the planning stages for several years now. American truckers WILL lose our jobs. In that process, American families (children in particular) will suffer. The greedy employers who hire the illegal aliens will increase their profits. What a deal !
4. This is a complete breakdown of the current trucking laws and regulations that govern our teamster truckers, independent trucking organizations, and mom-and-pop trucking families. This will work to destroy the truckers' livelihoods and futures— as for many, this is all they have ever done.
5. We cannot allow this to happen, not even to test it. This is the USA. NAFTA is a failed international policy that has backfired on the U.S., as warned, and is driving our country into total ruin. We do NOT need to pay-off the Kennedy-Bush debts.
6. We invite our truckers to participate in a national "Truck Out" Boycott, on the 23-25 of April, to coincide with the www.FairUS.org rally planned in Washington DC, the "Put Their Feet to the Fire" Press Conference Rally— intended to help the Congress and the Executive Branch understand and appreciate that the U.S. citizen-taxpayers have had enough of the multicultural 'sanctuary' crap.
7. WHAT WILL THE "TRUCK-OUT" ACCOMPLISH ? The point is to shut down all trucking and surround every legislative capital building in every state (and in D C) with a bumper-to-bumper "train" of trucks. We need local truckers to take-over the planning for their state capital.
The "Day Without Immigrants" fiasco last year was a cake-walk compared to this campaign. Imagine a "Day without U.S. citizen-truckers." Now there's a bid deal.
In addition, there will be a convoy of trucks, cars and motorcycles in every major city— to protest the corrupt plans our government has to destroy our trucking industry, and our nation.
This will, in turn, shut down all industry dependent on the truckers, as most of these industries employee illegal aliens. The guilty greedy employers will feel the heat as the "silent majority" gets vocal, and starts to report the criminals—as well as hammer the elected and appointed officials, to enforce the existing laws and rules.
This will show our government that "we-the-people" do have power— are willing exercise that POWER, and will no longer tolerate the refusal of the elected and appointed "big guys" to do the will of the legal American citizens and LEGAL immigrants in this country.
Yankees Si, Banditos NO !

The time has come to encourage the invaders to go home. We can accomplish that best by demanding that local law & justice authorities prosecute the criminals who employ, harbor, aid and abet the illegal aliens.
We are demanding there be NO amnesty for illegal aliens— criminals who broke our laws to cross our borders illegally, and committed felony crimes when they intentionally evaded our required border inspection stations (documents, food, physical health, immunizations, criminal background verification, etc).
Conventional wisdom is wrong; each illegal alien already has strike one.
We are demanding an end to the socialist/fascist corruption in our government by our errant elected officials who refuse to uphold our laws, our Constitution, their oaths of office, and stand up FOR the people who voted them into office. We are their bosses— it's time for them to stop ignoring us, blatantly breaking our laws, and twisting the truth to suit their own nefarious agendas.
8. Please plan now to join the "Truck Out." It won't take much to convince the Congress that we are serious— and we hold ALL the cards.

E-mail inamericasince1700@yahoo.com for more information. A phone number is set up and posted on the new web sites www.SaveAmericaFund.com and www.saveAmerica.com
There are three sections to the web site:

1. The "Truck Out" Boycott and Capitals Immobilization.
2. The Legal Fund for class action law suits against the government, the states, cities and our elected officials.
3. Campaign donations for Tom Tancredo for President, which will be directed to his donation web site, TEAM TANCREDO.
We have a talented and savvy press manager, Ed Lozzi. You can look up his web site at http://www.lozzipr.com/ . He is completely on board and is now setting up a press release media blitz for us through his wire service— reaching 14,000 news rooms, magazines, talk shows, radio shows, journalists, etc.
This is a time-critical process. Ed Lozzi asks for the press releases to be ready for transmission by April 1 st. In so doing, we have the full benefits of the release—timed perfectly for the coincidental "Truck-Out" and "FAIRUS Rally" in our Nation's Capital— 23-25 April.
We also have an inter-national short wave radio broadcaster— who already does worldwide broadcasts— ready to do a series of "spots" for us, as often as we need it done, to reach the truckers and anyone else out there who wants to join this fight.
We are counting on the truckers to bring the national talk-show hosts into the mix. We want and need their powerful help.
We are already putting together PSA's for radio and television. We just need help to open the "front-doors"— the way to get inside to get them aired in prime-time. We have Directors lined up; the scripts are being written right now, and A- and B-list talent willing to participate is already beating down our door to help.
Fellow Americans— truckers, teamsters, independent haulers, and mom-and-pop outfits— it's time to stop Bush and the U.S. Congress as they try to pull the fifth wheel out from under the CITIZEN TAXPAYER TRUCKERS in our nation.
Since Bush & Kennedy represent and favor Mexicans over Americans, and the House and Senate are likewise confused— it's time to show them how to sing "Give Me Forty Acres and I'll Turn This Rig Around."
Please help us; Send this message to every trucker, every trucker chat room, message board, CB operator, short wave and Ham Operator in America . Start now to be ready to use these three days (23-25 Apr 2007) to make a statement with your 18-wheeler— or the chances are you won't have an 18-wheeler to drive by the time President Bush, Teddy Kennedy, and their friends destroy American Trucker Jobs!

Illegal Alien Child Predator Rapes Six-Year-Old, On The Loose In Baltimore Area
By Digger


A man "suspected" of being an illegal alien raped a six-year-old girl and then fled. The man goes by multiple names including that given by police Saul Rodriquez, neighbors know him as Roquel Lucas and family says he is Rocael Herrera. All three names don't show legitimate identification issued in the U.S. He is 25 and didn't show up for work at his temporary agency when police were waiting.
If you see this scumbag report him to Crimestoppers at 1-888-559-TIPS

WLTX



"The hardest thing for me is that I was asleep. May daughter had just gone outside to get something to drink," explained the victim's mother. "He saw her. He coaxed her into going into another room, told her, 'Come here come here, I'm gonna show you something.' And when he finally got her in the room, did what he did with her, my daughter started bleeding and crying and he told her, 'You were like that when you came here and you better not tell anybody. Don't tell your mother, your uncles because if you tell anybody, I'm going to kill you.'"

Rodriquez is 5 foot 8 inches tall and weighs 150 pounds. He has black hair and brown eyes. He was last seen on Cedar Ridge Lane. Rodriquez is employed at temporary service in Newberry, but did not show up for work today.

Deputies believe he is here in the United States illegally.



Just think if the Senate Immigration Bill passes we can all shake Saul Rodriquez's hand after he gets his Z Visa and is here legally!

Let's give amnesty to all the illegal aliens here, even the ones who are criminals and go by 3 illegitimate names. After all who'll know the difference...

... other than the future victims.



Brickman Group Landscaping Hires Illegal Aliens Who Are Busted For Identity Theft And Fraud
By Digger


Brickman Group landscaping contractor, has had some of its illegal alien employees in Pennsylvania busted. Some employees fled on foot as law enforcement showed up and arrested them. Who would have thought that a landscaping contractor would be hiring illegal aliens?

Of course it doesn't end there. The employees were using other people's Social Security Numbers, thus committing identity fraud and others simply had fraudulent documents. All of those arrested have not posted bail and are being held at the Northampton County Prison.

Of course this is a "victimless crime", unless of course you count the poor legal people of this country who are now going through hell trying to get their credit and things straightened out with the IRS that they didn't actually earn a bunch of extra money in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. It's only victimless until it happens to you.

Red Orbit



A sting this week by Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli's office caught seven illegal immigrants working for a Lehigh University contractor using either fake permanent resident alien cards or fake or stolen Social Security numbers, authorities said.

The seven, all men living in Bethlehem, were employees of a Bethlehem branch office of national landscaping company the Brickman Group.

Robert Miklich, a detective with the district attorney's office, said one of the men was from Uruguay and the six others were from Mexico.

Miklich said four of the men were arrested with the help of the Lehigh University Police Department when they showed up for work Wednesday morning on Lehigh's Goodman Campus. Three fled on foot and were arrested later Wednesday.

According to court documents, the men were part of a group of 14 employees working for the Bethlehem branch of the Brickman Group who submitted false documents when Brickman hired them. Miklich could not say what initiated the investigation, but said the seven arrested men were the only ones of the 14 still in the area.

...

According to the arrest affidavits, the records check found some of the men used Social Security numbers that belonged to someone else, some used numbers that didn't exist, and some used fake permanent resident alien cards as identification.



Brickman's Regional Pennsylvania Manager can be reached below in case you wish to let them know how you feel about Brickman Group hiring illegal aliens.

Jack McPeak
Langhorne 215-757-9400
Direct Number 215-891-1241

Brickman Group Corporate Headquarters
18227D Flower Hill Way
Gaithersburg, MD 20879

Phone: (301) 987-9200
Fax: (240) 683-2030

Good investigative work, GoreL; however, the first one made national news a few weeks ago, didn't it?

The rapist is scum, for whom Jesus died.

Shall we demonize all White people for the man who assassinated Martin Luther King, Jr., or John Lennon, or who tried to assassinate presidents? Shall we send all the Blacks back to Africa because of the worst Black criminal in America? Of course not. If there are 12 million Hispanics in the USA illegally, shall we condemn them all because thousands of criminals exist among them? No, not if you're sane.

For what it's worth, I agree that the USA has a tremendous problem because it has not regulated its borders for over a century, and we need immigration reform. I agree that a population of illegal immigrants almost surely contains more than its share of criminals and perverts. I agree that criminals should be found, judged, and punished under the judicial system.

As I said already in this thread, perhaps you should take extraordinary steps to avoid compounding the problem. Boycott employers of illegal aliens. Stop using restaurants and hotels that hire illegal aliens. Don't have your lawn cut by 'independent contractors' who use illegal labor.

A humorous yet informative little video. Short Video

Well, the Census Bureau just published its huge household survey and found that the number of immigrants, legal and illegal, as hit a record 37.5 million people, or about 19% of the population.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070912/ap_on_...us_demographics

What's more, the bureau reports there are ten million immigrants from Asia! Yes, William Randolph Hearst may have been right about the 'Yellow Peril." The racists may have misdirected their hatred toward Hispanics when it's those Chinks and Gooks they should have been ranting about. To use their own words. Here in Thailand, we hear that immigrating Thais on overstayed tourist visas make up the majority of "Thai-Americans." I knew lots of 'wetback Asians' in Houston, Texas.

It's a whole lot more complex than ranting about the ten Hispanics who want to restore an "Aztlan" that existed only in myth.

Aztlan myth is a bit ironic. Most Mexicans more closely relate themselves to Spanish than to native, this to the point that natives are typically discriminated against by the Euro-Mex.

The Thai thing you mentioned could be why it is so difficult for Thais to get a visa for the US in spite of the The U.S.-Thai Treaty of Amity and Economic Relations. Here it is

The problem with pin point perspective is it is pin pointed in its prospective.

Immigration will be an extremely important issue in the coming elections I am sure. How one or their party stands on it may be an unpredictable swing point in that regard. Just look at the polls on the three core issues about immigration, Border Security, Amnesty and Interior Law enforcement of alredy existing laws.

On a side note;

I will be having 6 to 8 Thai members of my family, two of which are Muslims, coming here to the USA early next year, none have had a problem getting visas.

Since 9/11, I have had three nieces come and stay with us to get Masters and Phd's and none have had any problem doing so.

Are we an exception? Based on those we know in the Asian and Muslim community here, it appears not. For many we know including Japanese, Chinese, Korean and even some Iraqi Kurds have come in and had relavtives visit and or go to school since 9/11 with no real problems other than as is obvious, getting visas to anywhere is always a hassel!

!As to the Thai Overstay visa arguement, if one looks deeper into it. It was during the 1970's when the vast majority of Thais were coming to the US in large numbers as students and vistors. Most who stayed illegally I am sure, now have benefited from the several previous Amnesty programs and are either Naturalized citizens and or in status Green Card holders.

I am very active in the national Asian American community so I will do some research on just how valid some theories expressed here are.

That is all!!

Hey Trader-

What was the process they used for getting a visa? Did you petition them or did the apply on they own merits? Help me out here if you can. I am trying to get my significant other here for a short (1 month)vacation.

I will do my best to help.

As I recall, we sent a notarized letter for each individual family member stating who we were with names, addresses, phone and email. We further stated who they were with all the particulars and specifying how long and when they planned to come and stay. In this case it will be 1 month. We also stated, the purpose of the visit was a family reunion and Touring the US specifying where we currently plan to visit. Likewise, we stated we would be responsible for all their Financial costs such as room and board as well as internal travel expenses. Though they showed rather creditable Financial ability on their own individually I am sure.

We then stated "Each family member will be presenting this notarized letter Individually along with other evidence to establish her and their close and permanent ties to Thailand to assure you they will be unquestionably returning to Thailand prior to the expiration of their stay as Tourist for Pleasure and travel in the United States." (B-1 Visa)

I must tell you that I was an investigator for the Dept Of HomeLand Security for while three years ago with a high security clearance. Though, in fact and by law, the State Department never considers that other than if they might be suspicious and decided to look into our character and financial status. It never helped any of my nieces get F-1 student Visa even with letters sent by me. Though any person's record and condition the visitor is coming to see can be a factor.

Likewise, who they are and what they do in Thailand is crucial.

They applied online and as I recall and set up a group interview though there was some limitation in numbers as to how many could do that at a time as I recall.

They applied on their own merits and most importantly provided documented evidence of jobs, property ownership and Financial well being to show that are likely to return from the US.

That is key as I understand it in how the State Dept looks at the person's ties, economically and by occupation in Thailand which is a core basis for deciding if they are likely or not to come back.

I hope this helps.

Thanks it helps a bit.

We own a business together in Thailand for about 5 years now. I recently returned to work in the US (less than a year). The business in Thailand is profitable (slightly) and is entirely to heavily vested to throw away.

Lets begin by looking at these US Border Patrol Numbers:

Prior offenses by the numbers
Major crimes that showed up on the records of previously deported, illegal border crossers apprehended from Oct. 1, 2006, to Aug. 31, 2007:

127: Kidnapping

286: Homicide

430: Sexual assault

789: Robbery

5,078: Assault

10,843: Dangerous drugs

SOURCE: U.S. Border Patrol



Illegal Alien Drunk Driver Kills Marine:

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/14144520/detail.html?taf=bal


Illegal Aliens Behead Someone and throw corpse in River

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?s=7112476


Illegal Alien Murders Cancer Surviving Cop in Phoenix
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/n...ershot0919.html


Arizona Cop Killer had been Arrested 8 times!
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories...17/daily46.html

Over 45000 people have been murdered by Illegal Aliens since 9-11.

Revolving Door Of Illegal Alien Criminals
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/2...1n17return.html

I'll add a few more news reports for balance, admitting that I'm making these up, except for the last one, just as some of the others may be made up.

BANGOR, MAINE: Somewhere out beyond Bangor, 12 year old Consuela Maria Ybarra Gonzales scored a perfect 100% on her American history test. In flawless English, the native of North Carolina said, "I wanted to memorize all the history of my native country."

PINE RIDGE INDIAN RES., S. Dakota: Rescue worker Reynaldo Barrios today saved the life of an American Indian woman on the reservation. He testified, "I became a paramedic and volunteered here because my grandmother, an indigenous Totonaca woman from Veracruz state, died when no ambulance came to her aid."

VILLA PARK ILLINOIS: 17 year old Maria Sanchez is scheduled to be the valedictorian of Willowbrook High School's 2008 graduating class. Her mother migrated from the state of Oaxaca in 1979, and Maria was born in neighboring York Center.

And today in hundreds more communities all over the USA, legal and illegal Mexican-Americans scored well on their exams, obeyed speed limits...and my grandaughter, Clara Maria G.M., made all-district soccer last season!

No links, so this is obvious socialist propgagnda, the issue is not balanced.
You are a liar as always.

Two Men Arrested In Connection With Bonsall Rape, Stabbings
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/09/24...6_449_23_07.txt




Illegal Alien Mother Strangles Her Four Children
http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/9567272.html


Family Burns Alive In Car Struck By Illegal Scum Bag
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/0...igrant_fre.html










Vegetable Picker Stabs Boss


Stabbing suspect captured
at Maybee gas station

By: Ray Kisonas story updated September 25. 2007 11:59AM

A migrant worker who reportedly stabbed his boss in the chest during an argument in an Exeter Township squash field Monday morning was captured in a Maybee gas station hours after the assault.

The suspect was filthy and covered in weeds when he was arrested after a massive police search followed the stabbing, said Monroe County sheriff's detectives. The suspect, 27, a Mexican citizen, is being held in the county jail on attempted murder charges.

Detective Jeff Corie said the victim, Javier Lopez, 52, is recovering from a stab wound to the chest. He was flown to St. Joseph Mercy Hospital, Ann Arbor, where surgeons repaired a damaged heart ventricle, Detective Corie said.

Migrant workers were harvesting squash in a farm field at Scofield-Carleton and Martinsville Rds. in Exeter Township about 10:45 a.m. Mr. Lopez is the field boss and began to question the suspect's lack of work.

Detective Corie said an argument ensued and the man allegedly stabbed his boss. He ran away, and a fellow worker drove the victim to the farmhouse where help was called.

Two bloody knives have been recovered and one is believed to be the weapon used, Detective Corie said. He added that all workers had six-inch knives so they could harvest the squash.

After the incident, police flooded the area and Airport Community Schools went into a lockdown. Police tracking dogs, the Michigan State Police of the Monroe post and the sheriff's helicopter assisted in the search.

Once it was determined that the man was no longer in the vicinity, school officials lifted the lockdown.

Around 4:30 p.m., a man dirty and covered in weedsat the Marathon gas station on Blue Bush Rd. was taken into custody without incident.

Detective Corie said the suspect was interviewed with the help of a translater and he requested a lawyer. Once that happened, the interview was stopped and the man was lodged in the county jail.

He is expected to be prosecuted in Monroe County. He is expected to be prosecuted in Monroe County. If he was found guilty of a crime, he would be expected to serve his sentence in Michigan.

http://www.monroenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...EWS01/109250051

Placerville man held on $2 million bail in domestic violence case

By Niesha Lofing - Bee Staff Writer

Published 11:04 am PDT Tuesday, September 25, 2007

A 34-year-old man is being held on more than $2 million bail in connection to a domestic violence incident in Placerville earlier this month.

Silvino Fuentes of Placerville was arrested last week on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon, violation of parole, and a no-bail immigration hold. He is being held in El Dorado County Jail and is scheduled to be arraigned Monday.

Fuentes is alleged to have been involved in a domestic violence incident on Newton Road in Placerville Sept. 7. Fuentes fled the scene before El Dorado County Sheriff's deputies arrived, Sgt. Bryan Golmitz said in a news release.

Witnesses told deputies that Fuentes was armed with a gun. Deputies and Placerville police searched the area, but did not locate Fuentes, he said.

Deputies received information on Sept. 17 from a citizen who had information that Fuentes might have been in Solano County. He was arrested by Solano County Sheriff's deputies the same day, Golmitz said.

http://www.sacbee.com/102/story/397989.html

Man charged in 2006 shooting

MIKE TORRALBA
mtorralba@charlotteobserver.com

Police arrested a Mexican immigrant Tuesday in connection with the 2006 fatal shooting of a naturalized citizen, Monroe police said.

Candido Casterjon Capote, 47, is charged with one count of first degree murder in the death of Norberto Manuel Cortes of Monroe, according to a news release from the Monroe Police Department.

Cortes, 35, was shot several times as he was returning home from work after midnight on April 27, 2006. He later died at hospital. Police had identified a suspect but were unable to find him.

A break in the case came two weeks ago, when the federal immigration office in Charlotte called Monroe police because an applicant for naturalization had turned up in a national criminal database.

Capote, who had been living in Shannon, outside Fayetteville, is an immigrant from Mexico, Monroe Police Lt. Phil Pressley said in an interview. Cortes had been naturalized for several years when he died.

Capote had been out on bond while awaiting a court date in connection with the injury shooting of another person in 2004, Pressley said. Capote is being held in Union County jail without bond.

Pressley declined to discuss possible motives in the shooting and what suspect the victims had to the defendant.

http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/292591.html


Feds bust illegal immigrant prostitution ring with Jacksonville connections

By Paul Pinkham, The Times-Union

Federal authorities have busted a statewide sex trafficking ring in which Central American women said they were smuggled into Florida and forced into prostitution in Jacksonville and other cities.

FBI and immigration agents made four arrests last week, including a man accused of heading the Jacksonville end of the ring, and two Colombian immigrants who agents said drove and housed women in Jacksonville. They and a man identified as the Tampa head of the organization are charged in Tallahassee with importing, transporting and harboring illegal aliens for prostitution and financial gain.

The women were brought to Florida under the guise of getting work as maids or bartenders but were forced into prostitution at apartment complexes in Jacksonville, Tampa, Tallahassee and Orlando, according to an arrest affidavit signed by Senior Special Agent William Maxey of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

An indictment unsealed last week in Tallahassee said the women were rotated from city to city and required to have multiple sex acts with multiple partners every day. Federal prosecutors said the men promoted the prostitution ring with business cards and cell phones and kept the $30 per sex act the women were told to charge. The women were picked up in Texas, the indictment says.

A fifth man, also from Colombia, was convicted by a Tallahassee jury in May of seven related counts. Jorge Wilmar Melchor is awaiting sentencing Oct. 15.

Melchor was arrested in 2006 after two Guatemalan women fled his Tallahassee home and told a neighbor they were being forced to work as prostitutes. The women testified they were taken to apartment complexes populated by alien workers, said Melchor's attorney, Armando Garcia.

"My understanding of how this works is they service strictly the Latin community," Garcia said Tuesday.

Witnesses interviewed for Melchor's case told agents about others involved in human trafficking in other cities, including Carlos Andres Monsalve, who Maxey testified ran the organization from Tampa. He said Monsalve began smuggling women into the United States in 2005 and told them they had to work as prostitutes to pay his smuggling fees.

Also arrested were:

- Fabio Perez, a Colombian immigrant who witnesses said drove prostitutes to and from Jacksonville and ran the organization in Monsalve's absence;

- Jorge Enrique Londono, also known as Alvara Prado, who agents said formerly ran the Jacksonville end of the ring; and

- Luz Karime Ramos Teran, also known as La Negra, who prosecutors said housed women in Jacksonville.

A sixth defendant, whose name has been kept secret and who is cooperating with agents, told Maxey he normally met Londono and Perez between Jacksonville and Tampa for the purpose of exchanging prostitutes.

Maxey said video surveillance in Jacksonville last month shows Monsalve and Perez driving women to apartment complexes occupied by Hispanic men. The video shows them entering the apartment with the women and staying for about 30 minutes.

"This type of behavior is consistent with statements from witnesses of how Fabio and Monsalve delivered prostitutes to customers," Maxey said.

Maxey said one prostitute told agents Perez ran the organization while Monsalve was out of the country. The woman said some women brought in $1,500 a week.

Garcia estimated about two dozen women were involved in the ring. He said he argued during Melchor's trial that the women were willing participants.

"He was a pimp. He was not a smuggler," Garcia said.

paul.pinkham@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4107

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stor...202824483.shtml

Rape Victim Survives 76 Stab Wounds

Two Day Laborers Arrested


http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/14199317/detail.html

Gore Lost, you're the liar, or you simply can't take time to read! I told you at the beginning that I was making them up, except for the last one. I don't need to provide links to stories I make up!

Maybe you can't take a joke, or don't understand....I have 12 year old students who know when I'm joking.

What if we threw out all the illegal immigrants?

Did a search but couldn't find this on here anywhere.
__________________________________________________

By Shirley Skeel

This is one in an occasional series on financial what-ifs.

At least 12 million illegal immigrants live in the U.S. Most pick crops, wash dishes, build houses, cut lawns and do other jobs for between $6 and $15 an hour. They make up about 5% of the total U.S. work force. But …

What if we threw them all out?

Lettuce and strawberries would rot in the fields. Dirty dishes would pile up in restaurants. Thousands of farmers and builders would go bust. Predator aircraft drones would prowl the Mexican border. And chunks of Los Angeles and Houston would look like ghost towns.

The biggest losers would be middle-class families with two working parents, living in high-immigrant states such as California, Texas, Florida or New York. Why? They would pay more for food, housing, entertainment and child care as a shortage of low-skilled workers drove up some wages, and therefore, some prices. Meantime, their own pay would remain the same. What's more, the ripple effect of thousands of businesses shrinking or closing for lack of staff might put one of the parents out of a job. Not to mention the garbage collection going to pot and no one to polish the missus' nails.

The winners, for a change, would be the low-skilled unemployed, living just about anywhere -- if they were willing to move. Of the 12 million illegal immigrants, about 8 million are employed, mostly in low-skill jobs. The U.S., meantime, has about 22 million less-educated jobless adults, many of them blacks and legalized Hispanics, according to a 2008 report from the Center for Immigration Studies, a research group based in Washington, D.C.

Economists say if these people agreed to bone meat or install insulation, they could earn 6% to 10% more than the deported workers, as wages rose to lure new workers. That could mean $18,000 to $30,000 in pay a year.

And the economy? Short term, the effect of lost manpower and spending by illegal immigrants would be "devastating" or cause "some temporary dislocation," depending on whom you ask.
Are Americans willing to do these jobs?
Ray Perryman, the president of The Perryman Group, an economic analysis firm in Waco, Texas, calculates our $14 trillion economy would suffer $652 billion in lost output -- a dramatic 4.6% slice off gross domestic product. He predicts tens of thousands of businesses would close. Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, predicts perhaps a 1% slip in GDP.


Why the big difference in opinion? Because people are hard to predict.

Just how quickly would Americans fill the vacated jobs? And at what pay rate? Perryman points to Texas, where he says there are more than 1 million illegal workers, but only 450,000 unemployed residents. "If you do the math, it just doesn't work," he says. He doubts that many needy Virginians would move to Texas for often-grueling, low-paying jobs.

Rector disagrees. He says it would take time for "Cousin Fred" in Texas to phone up his jobless mates in Virginia, but, "There are a lot of people who work for less than $20,000 a year." And they would move for a job.

Still, until the unemployed did jump in their Hyundais to head south, several industries in high-immigrant states would have a terrible time. Some are listed below. The figures in parentheses show the percentage of illegal workers in each industry's work force, as calculated by the Pew Hispanic Center in Washington. The figures are nationwide; in some localities, they would be far higher.

* Home help (21%): Los Angeles would still have its sunshine, but there'd be far fewer helping hands to clean floors, cook dinner and shush the kids. Not to mention in New York, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix and Miami. Some working parents might have to quit their jobs to care for the kids or break the family piggy bank to attract a housekeeper from a neighbor.

* Farming (13%): "Agriculture would come to a screeching halt," says Nicole Rothfleisch, executive director of the Imperial County Farm Bureau in Southern California. She says El Centro, the county seat, has the highest unemployment in the state (18%). But farmers can never find enough local help. Pay is $9 an hour, and the summer temperatures can hit 110 degrees. The locals, she says, "want cushy jobs with air conditioning." Economists say many farmers would go broke as billions of dollars' worth of crops lay unpicked. Farms would merge and switch to crops that can be picked mechanically, like round lettuce or oranges used solely for juice.

* Food manufacturing (14%): The big meatpacking and poultry-processing plants would slash production, increase wages (now $12 an hour in Texas) and send managers in helicopters to scour the countryside for workers. In 2006, when six plants of meatpacker Swift & Co. were raided for illegal workers, the company began offering $1,500 bonuses to Burmese refugees in Texas for each friend or relative they could recruit.

* Construction (12%): If it looks bad now, imagine an economy where homebuilding is really crushed, says Rick Montelongo, owner of a building and remodeling company in San Antonio. "It would be a huge blow," he says. Workers' wages, which make up 30% of the cost of building a home, would have to rise "substantially," he says. That would make it more expensive to build new homes, resulting in even fewer sales for an industry already experiencing a sharp downturn.

* Hotels and restaurants (11%): There'd be a triple whammy here. Latino staff and customers would both be lost, while the price of fresh food would be driven up by shortages. Distraught restaurant owners would pin up job ads at colleges, when they weren't up to their elbows in dish soap. The billions of dollars spent annually by illegal immigrants would disappear, bad news for small restaurateurs and fast-food joints. But over time, the industry would adapt. Self-service cafés would pop up. And more restaurants would serve chicken parmesan prepared in a factory and warmed up in a microwave. Yum.

As for the middle-class family in California or Texas, there would be some upside. Getting Johnny into the emergency room when he broke his arm would be easier with fewer uninsured Hispanics crowding the lobby.

Some schools might even offer smaller classes. Steven Camarota, the research director at the Center for Immigration Studies, calculates that 3.3 million children, or 6% of school kids, have at least one undocumented parent. It costs about $10,000 per year to educate a child. So if all these kids left the U.S., too, it'd save $33 billion, Camarota says. "It could take a lot of pressure off the school system," he adds. Of course, some near-empty schools would have to close.

What about taxes? Would the average American family get any relief? That's hotly debated. Camarota reckoned in 2004 that the federal government would save $10 billion net a year if all illegal immigrants were expelled. That's the difference between what the illegal workers pay in income and payroll tax and what they and their kids collect in federal benefits. However, some economists insist that just the opposite is true.

At the state level, there's more agreement. Places such as Arizona, Texas, California and Nevada, which fork out billions for education and health care, would probably be ahead -- though not by a lot overall. So, American family tax relief? Maybe a little.

And then there's the neighborhood. Critics of lax immigration policies say that drug running, traffic accidents and crime would go down with the illegal immigrants gone. But The Immigration Policy Center, a Washington research group, argues that studies show that immigrants in general are less likely to commit crimes or to end up behind bars than native-born Americans. The debate goes on.
How likely is it that this will happen?
Politically, it's highly unlikely. Logistically, it would be a nightmare.

Although polls show that most Americans want stronger border enforcement, deporting the illegal immigrants already here is not popular. A CBS News poll found 33% of Americans favored deportation, while 62% preferred offering legal status. In a Gallup poll, 13% favored deportation and 78% favored offering citizenship. Neither John McCain nor Barack Obama leans toward deportation.

Emphasis now is on deterrence, which is proving costly. Estimates for the construction of a 15-foot-high double fence between the U.S. and Mexico range from $1 million to as much as $70 million per mile. The border is 2,000 miles long.

Published July 2, 2008

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Colle...Immigrants.aspx

The High Cost of Cheap Labor
Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget

Executive Summary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

Among the findings:

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.


Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).


With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.


On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.


Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.


If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.


The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.


The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.


The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.

A Complex Fiscal Picture

Welfare use. Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don't pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work "on the books." On average, illegal households pay more than $4,200 a year in all forms of federal taxes. Unfortunately, they impose costs of $6,950 per household.



Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. However, they create a net deficit of $17.4 billion in the rest of the budget, for a total net loss of $10.4 billion. Nonetheless, their impact on Social Security and Medicare is unambiguously positive. Of course, if the Social Security totalization agreement with Mexico signed in June goes into effect, allowing illegals to collect Social Security, these calculations would change.

The Impact of Amnesty. Finally, our estimates show that amnesty would significantly increase tax revenue. Because both their income and tax compliance would rise, we estimate that under the most likely scenario the average illegal alien household would pay 77 percent ($3,200) more a year in federal taxes once legalized. While not enough to offset the 118 percent ($8,200) per household increase in costs that would come with legalization, amnesty would significantly increase both the average income and tax payments of illegal aliens.

What's Different About Today's Immigration. Many native-born Americans observe that their ancestors came to America and did not place great demands on government services. Perhaps this is true, but the size and scope of government were dramatically smaller during the last great wave of immigration. Not just means-tested programs, but expenditures on everything from public schools to roads were only a fraction of what they are today. Thus, the arrival of unskilled immigrants in the past did not have the negative fiscal implications that it does today. Moreover, the American economy has changed profoundly since the last great wave of immigration, with education now the key determinant of economic success. The costs that unskilled immigrants impose simply reflect the nature of the modern American economy and welfare state. It is doubtful that the fiscal costs can be avoided if our immigration policies remain unchanged.

Policy Implications
The negative impact on the federal budget need not be the only or even the primary consideration when deciding what to do about illegal immigration. But assuming that the fiscal status quo is unacceptable, there are three main changes in policy that might reduce or eliminate the fiscal costs of illegal immigration. One set of options is to allow illegal aliens to remain in the country, but attempt to reduce the costs they impose. A second set of options would be to grant them legal status as a way of increasing the taxes they pay. A third option would be to enforce the law and reduce the size of the illegal population and with it the costs of illegal immigration.

Reducing the Cost Side of the Equation. Reducing the costs illegals impose would probably be the most difficult of the three options because illegal households already impose only about 46 percent as much in costs on the federal government as other households. Thus, the amount of money that can be saved by curtailing their use of public services even further is probably quite limited. Moreover, the fact that benefits are often received on behalf of their U.S.-citizen children means tha