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MrLeft
I agree with the Imam in question; it's becoming a bit ridiculous that many Muslims are taken out of planes and taken aside at airports due to people's ignorance and bigotry. Too bad Nomad wasn't there to put his foot down, then these fellows could have sued him for more than he's worth! I don't believe these folks deserve this embarassment, and the people need to wake up and get educated about their very own countrymen....

Passenger raised concern; police questioned scholars before releasing them

QUOTE
MINNEAPOLIS - Six Muslim imams were removed from a US Airways flight at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on Monday and questioned by police for several hours before being released, a leader of the group said.
The six were among passengers who boarded Flight 300, bound for Phoenix, around 6:30 p.m., airport spokesman Pat Hogan said.

A passenger initially raised concerns about the group through a note passed to a flight attendant, according to Andrea Rader, a spokeswoman for US Airways.

A federal security official said the passenger reported hearing the men make references to "Allah" and expressing pro-Saddam and anti-American sentiments, NBC News reported. The official also said some of the imams did not sit in their assigned seats and moved to empty seats.

Police were called when the men refused to move when asked to leave the plane by the pilot and airport security officers, Rader said.

Call for investigation

The six Muslim scholars were returning from a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation, said Shahin, president of the group. Five of them were from the Phoenix-Tempe area, while one was from Bakersfield, Calif., he said.

Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam.

“They took us off the plane, humiliated us in a very disrespectful way,” said Omar Shahin, of Phoenix.

“I never felt bad in my life like that,” he said. “I never. Six imams. Six leaders in this country. Six scholars in handcuffs. It’s terrible.”

Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, expressed anger at the detentions and the organization called Tuesday for an investigation into the behavior of airline staff and airport security.

“CAIR will be filing a complaint with relevant authorities in the morning over the treatment of the imams to determine whether the incident was caused by anti-Muslim hysteria by the passengers and/or the airline crew,” Hooper said. “Because, unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslims at airports, and it’s one that we’ve been addressing for some time.”

Prominent Islamic conference

Hooper said the meeting drew about 150 imams from all over the country, and that those attending included U.S. Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, D-Minneapolis, who just became the first Muslim elected to Congress. Shahin said they went as far as notifying police and the FBI about their meeting in advance.

Shahin expressed frustration that — despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks — so many Americans know so little about Islam.

“If up to now they don’t know about prayers, this is a real problem,” he said.

Shahin said the group spent the night at the home of a local imam and was waiting for a phone call Tuesday from US Airways. Hooper said US Airways refused to put the men on another flight.

The airline did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment on that aspect Tuesday.

The other passengers on the flight, which was carrying 141 passengers and five crew members, were re-screened for boarding, Rader said. The plane took off about three hours after the men were removed.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096/
Stealth
QUOTE (MrLeft @ Nov 22 2006, 02:56 PM) *
I agree with the Imam in question; it's becoming a bit ridiculous that many Muslims are taken out of planes and taken aside at airports due to people's ignorance and bigotry. Too bad Nomad wasn't there to put his foot down, then these fellows could have sued him for more than he's worth! I don't believe these folks deserve this embarassment, and the people need to wake up and get educated about their very own countrymen....

Passenger raised concern; police questioned scholars before releasing them
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096/


Mr Left, you've run away to another sandbox and begun your own thread; you must be proud. While I am not surprised you are in agreement with the Immam, you should be more reserved about slipping into those kneepads you are so fond of wearing. Perhaps some other view points are in order, you know, for some balance.

Dear US Airways,
I want to express my deepest thanks for protecting passengers outbound from Phoenix, AZ by removing the six disruptive Muslim passengers.

I fly US Airways frequently and it is reassuring to know that you mean business when it comes to our safety. I will continue to fly on your carrier.

Having been married to a Muslim (deceased husband) I might add that evening prayers can be said quietly and while sitting in a chair. Those Muslims knew that yet refused to behave properly and respectfully towards the other passengers. It is obvious that they planned to taunt the authorities.


There are also lingering questions about just what the six imams on the flight to Phoenix were intending. It seems clear that they had no terror plans, but there is a possibility that they were being intentionally provocative: one woman wrote to US Airways: “Having been married to a Muslim (deceased husband) I might add that evening prayers can be said quietly and while sitting in a chair. Those Muslims knew that yet refused to behave properly and respectfully towards the other passengers. It is obvious that they planned to taunt the authorities.” Supporting this possibility is the fact that Imam Omar Shahin was involved with the Islamic charity Kind Hearts, which has had its assets frozen by the U. S. Treasury Department because of its connections to the terrorist group Hamas. And according to a September 2001 story in the Arizona Republic, Shahin “said members of the Tucson mosque may have helped bin Laden in the early 1990s.” He maintained, however, that this was consistent with the practice of the CIA itself: “They (the CIA) called him a ‘freedom fighter.’ Then they tell us he is involved in terrorist acts, and they stopped supporting him, and we stopped.”… Read more
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=25628

Wow, seems there might be more to the story. But that's OK you can keep the kneepads on, we know how much like wearing them. popcorn.gif wink.gif
LooseCannon
Without being on the plane, you definately can't say for sure, but since most of the terrorism in the world today is being committed by Arabs, then yes, racial profiling definately is going to occur. Yes if several Muslims that entered the plane separately stood up and started praying loudly, maybe not as big of a deal. But if they group together and start praying, yes that becomes a whole lot more suspicious. And if they did go sit together, and they actually were making anti-American and pro-Saddam comments, then yes this would be even more troubling.



Pretty much, if we should know that Muslims pray in a certain way in a certain time, then they most certaintly know that they way they act is going to be scrutinized. And they should know that 6 Arabs who board separately with separate seats that come together to talk and pray are going to look extrememly suspicious, regardless of how much people know about Islam. Seeing as they live in America, and have most likely travelled by plane before, not knowing this is complete ignorance on their part.



Pretty much, if you're walking in a bad neighborhood after dark, and you see 3 big, black guys trailing behind you, you're gonna be worried about your safety, regardless of whether or not you're in any danger. Maybe it's ignorance on the passengers part, but it is no less ignorant on the part of the imams. All I know is if I'm sitting there, and I see 3 arabs from different sections of the plane group together and start praying, you can bet your *** that I'm worried as hell.



But once again, without being on the plane, who really knows if this was an overreaction or if the imams truly were acting suspiciously.
Nomad
Well Steath, you beat me to it. It's obvious these "Muslim scholars" laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif are fighting the jihad in their own way. And where is the ACLU on this. Were it six priests disrupting the cabin with The Lords Prayer that were removed the ACLU would jump to US Airways defense.
QUOTE
I agree with the Imam in question; it's becoming a bit ridiculous that many Muslims are taken out of planes and taken aside at airports due to people's ignorance and bigotry.

Muslims comprise far less than 1% of the US population. Considering Muslims have been responsible for all terror attacks in and against the US worldwide ( McViegh excepted ) would it not be prudent for these "peaceful Muslims rolleyes.gif " to not provoke a society that has been repeatedly attacked by their "evil counterpart". But no they won't. They continue to push and taunt, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion.
QUOTE
Nomad wasn't there to put his foot down, then these fellows could have sued him for more than he's worth!
popcorn.gif No one has a RIGHT to fly. And those that do must abide by FAA regs. The Captain has the RIGHT to throw anyone off his plane if he thinks they are a danger to him and his passengers.

But perhaps this sums it up best..........................

QUOTE
WHAT CAN I DO TO MAKE YOUR FLIGHT MORE UNCOMFORTABLE?Wed Nov 22, 8:04 PM ET


Six imams removed from a US Airways flight from Minneapolis to Phoenix are calling on Muslims to boycott the airline. If only we could get Muslims to boycott all airlines, we could dispense with airport security altogether.

Witnesses said the imams stood to do their evening prayers in the terminal before boarding, chanting "Allah, Allah, Allah" -- coincidentally, the last words heard by hundreds of airline passengers on 9/11 before they died.

Witnesses also said that the imams were talking about Saddam Hussein, and denouncing America and the war in Iraq. About the only scary preflight ritual the imams didn't perform was the signing of last wills and testaments.

After boarding, the imams did not sit together and some asked for seat belt extensions, although none were morbidly obese. Three of the men had one-way tickets and no checked baggage.

Also they were Muslims.

The idea that a Muslim boycott against US Airways would hurt the airline proves that Arabs are utterly tone-deaf. This is roughly the equivalent of Cindy Sheehan taking a vow of silence. How can we hope to deal with people with no sense of irony? The next thing you know, New York City cab drivers will be threatening to bathe.

Come to think of it, the whole affair may have been a madcap advertising scheme cooked up by US Airways.

It worked with me. US Airways is my official airline now. Northwest, which eventually flew the Allah-spouting Muslims to their destinations, is off my list. You want to really hurt a U.S. air carrier's business? Have Muslims announce that it's their favorite airline.

The clerics had been attending an imam conference in Minneapolis (imam conference slogan: "What Happens in Minneapolis -- Actually, Nothing Happened in Minneapolis"). But instead of investigating the conference, the government is now investigating my favorite airline.

What threat could Muslims flying from Minnesota to Arizona be?

Three of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 received their flight training in Arizona. Long before the attacks, an FBI agent in Phoenix found it curious that so many Arabs were enrolled in flight school. But the FBI rebuffed his request for an investigation on the grounds that his suspicions were based on the same invidious racial profiling that has brought US Airways under investigation and into my good graces.

Lynne Stewart's client, the Blind Sheik, Omar Abdel-Rahman, is serving life in prison in a maximum security lock-up in Minnesota. One of the six imams removed from the US Airways plane was blind, so Lynne Stewart was the one missing clue that would have sent all the passengers screaming from the plane.

Wholly apart from the issue of terrorism, don't we have a seller's market for new immigrants? How does a blind Muslim get to the top of the visa list? Is there a shortage of blind, fanatical clerics in this country that I haven't noticed? Couldn't we get some Burmese with leprosy instead? A 4-year-old could do a better job choosing visa applicants than the U.S. Department of Immigration.

One of the stunt-imams in US Airways' advertising scheme, Omar Shahin, complained about being removed from the plane, saying: "Six scholars in handcuffs. It's terrible."

Yes, especially when there was a whole conference of them! Six out of 150 is called "poor law enforcement." How did the other 144 "scholars" get off so easy?

Shahin's own "scholarship" consisted of continuing to deny Muslims were behind 9/11 nearly two months after the attacks. On Nov. 4, 2001, The Arizona Republic cited Shahin's "skepticism that Muslims or bin Laden carried out attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon." Shahin complained that the government was "focusing on the Arabs, the Muslims. And all the evidence shows that the Muslims are not involved in this terrorist act."

In case your memory of that time is hazy, within three days of the attack, the Justice Department had released the names of all 19 hijackers -- names like Majed Moqed, Ahmed Alghamdi, Mohand Alshehri, Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi and Ahmed Alnami. The government had excluded all but 19 passengers as possible hijackers based on extensive interviews with friends and family of nearly every passenger on all four flights. Some of the hijackers' seat numbers had been called in by flight attendants on the planes.

By early October, bin Laden had produced a videotape claiming credit for the attacks. And by Nov. 4, 2001, The New York Times had run well over 100 articles on the connections between bin Laden and the hijackers -- even more detailed and sinister than the Times' flowcharts on neoconservatives!

Also, if I remember correctly, al-Qaida had taken out full-page ads in Variety and the Hollywood Reporter thanking their agents for the attacks.

But now, on the eve of the busiest travel day in America, these "scholars" have ginned up America's PC victim machinery to intimidate airlines and passengers from noticing six imams chanting "Allah" before boarding a commercial jet.


Link

popcorn.gif popcorn.gif popcorn.gif
Stealth
QUOTE (Nomad @ Nov 22 2006, 09:08 PM) *
Well Steath, you beat me to it. It's obvious these "Muslim scholars" laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif are fighting the jihad in their own way. And where is the ACLU on this. Were it six priests disrupting the cabin with The Lords Prayer that were removed the ACLU would jump to US Airways defense.

Muslims comprise far less than 1% of the US population. Considering Muslims have been responsible for all terror attacks in and against the US worldwide ( McViegh excepted ) would it not be prudent for these "peaceful Muslims rolleyes.gif " to not provoke a society that has been repeatedly attacked by their "evil counterpart". But no they won't. They continue to push and taunt, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion.
popcorn.gif No one has a RIGHT to fly. And those that do must abide by FAA regs. The Captain has the RIGHT to throw anyone off his plane if he thinks they are a danger to him and his passengers.

But perhaps this sums it up best..........................
Link
popcorn.gif popcorn.gif popcorn.gif


As you know Nomad Jihad comes in many guises.

Hmmm. According to the TV, the men said they were in town for “a religious conference.” Interesting. I was talking today with a guy I know; he’d been at a suburban hotel for an annual company sales meeting. The regional manager was having a difficult time speaking, since the party in the next conference room was praying about as loudly as is humanly possible, and had followed the prayers with a speaker who expressed in rather . . . forceful terms the depth of Muslim oppression in America. Unless there are several Muslim religious conferences going on in Minneapolis at the moment, I’d guess that might be the one. If so, I wonder if the reported truculence of the men might have been influenced, or at least reinforced, by the speaker. Whoever he was.

I phoned the info in to the paper, as a good citizen. Wonder if there’s anything to it.


http://www.lileks.com/bleats/archive/06/1106/112106.html
Stealth
QUOTE (Stealth @ Nov 23 2006, 07:34 AM) *
As you know Nomad Jihad comes in many guises.

Hmmm. According to the TV, the men said they were in town for “a religious conference.” Interesting. I was talking today with a guy I know; he’d been at a suburban hotel for an annual company sales meeting. The regional manager was having a difficult time speaking, since the party in the next conference room was praying about as loudly as is humanly possible, and had followed the prayers with a speaker who expressed in rather . . . forceful terms the depth of Muslim oppression in America. Unless there are several Muslim religious conferences going on in Minneapolis at the moment, I’d guess that might be the one. If so, I wonder if the reported truculence of the men might have been influenced, or at least reinforced, by the speaker. Whoever he was.

I phoned the info in to the paper, as a good citizen. Wonder if there’s anything to it.


http://www.lileks.com/bleats/archive/06/1106/112106.html


This guy Tucker is alright. wink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWx7d77_IPo...related&search=
MrLeft
QUOTE
Well Steath, you beat me to it. It's obvious these "Muslim scholars" are fighting the jihad in their own way. And where is the ACLU on this. Were it six priests disrupting the cabin with The Lords Prayer that were removed the ACLU would jump to US Airways defense.


What does this mean? Is this supposed to be humorous?

QUOTE
Muslims comprise far less than 1% of the US population. Considering Muslims have been responsible for all terror attacks in and against the US worldwide ( McViegh excepted ) would it not be prudent for these "peaceful Muslims " to not provoke a society that has been repeatedly attacked by their "evil counterpart". But no they won't. They continue to push and taunt, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion.


That's a stretch... More hyperbole than anything, to put it mildly... In fact, I find this offensive. Were you there? Do you know these people? What justifies saying these things?

Also - if we go back from the foundation of the Anglo-American colonies, through the founding of the United States, up to today, we will find terrorist attacks executed by more folks than Muslims... way to demonize people for no reason, jingo.

And just to let you know, there's Christians in my town who stand on street corners with tacky signs shouting at the top of their lungs how everyone is going to go to hell... This happens all over... pushy Christians with their Bible tracts and their ranting in public... this isn't so uncommon... couldn't someone possibly interpret that type of thing as "pushing and taunting, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion," as you say above?

QUOTE
No one has a RIGHT to fly. And those that do must abide by FAA regs. The Captain has the RIGHT to throw anyone off his plane if he thinks they are a danger to him and his passengers.


There's actually no evidence that they did anything wrong at all, based upon the various reports available; it's unclear whether complaining passengers were just ignorant, frightened people reacting blindly out of prejudices they can't control, or if the Imams were being genuinely disruptive and deserved to be removed. I admitted either of these scenarios could be true based on the reports. I posted eariler in this thread that it's not clear one way or the other exactly what happened; as of today, each party was talking through their lawyers, and no one is elaborating on the incident; the Imams are not suing. What evidence can you see here that demonstrates that they actually did something other than pray and say the name of God in Arabic a few times which might warrant the action of the Captain of this plane? So is it suspicious, then, for me to say 'God' at any given time?


And that thing you posted earlier about the wife of a Muslim whose husband prayed sitting down - you should know, since you like to interpret the Quran so literally, that the Quran demands Muslims pray facing a qibla (a marker showing the direction to Mecca), bowing with their heads on the ground, or at the bare minimum, bowed on their knees if the ground is dirty or in public. So this woman is full of crap.
LooseCannon
Why are people all for questioning folk passing notes anonymously?

Stand up and be counted then if that's how you feel! Ok,they got questioned, they weren't up to no good...let it go! If they're offended I suppose that's natural too.

People here are talking like they should be glad they got accosted. "how dare they get upset about my paranoia inconveniencing/degrading/embarrassing them!? Don't they know I'm special?"

Some of you golden boys should have to live the way under the conditions in which you so freely consign others.

If we're going to insist that our military be ensconced in their region of the world, knowing how many times a day people pray really isn't too much to ask.
Stealth
QUOTE (MrLeft @ Nov 23 2006, 11:23 AM) *
What does this mean? Is this supposed to be humorous?
That's a stretch... More hyperbole than anything, to put it mildly... In fact, I find this offensive. Were you there? Do you know these people? What justifies saying these things?

Uhhhh, were you?
QUOTE
Also - if we go back from the foundation of the Anglo-American colonies, through the founding of the United States, up to today, we will find terrorist attacks executed by more folks than Muslims... way to demonize people for no reason, jingo.
There goes that logic fallacy syndrome again.
QUOTE
And just to let you know, there's Christians in my town who stand on street corners with tacky signs shouting at the top of their lungs how everyone is going to go to hell... This happens all over... pushy Christians with their Bible tracts and their ranting in public... this isn't so uncommon... couldn't someone possibly interpret that type of thing as "pushing and taunting, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion," as you say above?
There's that syndrome again. LOL! How do the buddhist behave? I'm sorry forgot has nothing to do with the subject.
QUOTE
There's actually no evidence that they did anything wrong at all, based upon the various reports available; it's unclear whether complaining passengers were just ignorant, frightened people reacting blindly out of prejudices they can't control, or if the Imams were being genuinely disruptive and deserved to be removed. I admitted either of these scenarios could be true based on the reports. I posted eariler in this thread that it's not clear one way or the other exactly what happened; as of today, each party was talking through their lawyers, and no one is elaborating on the incident; the Imams are not suing. What evidence can you see here that demonstrates that they actually did something other than pray and say the name of God in Arabic a few times which might warrant the action of the Captain of this plane? So is it suspicious, then, for me to say 'God' at any given time?

Why are you so upset about 6 Muslims, who were removed from a plane because they are allegedly were disruptive on said plane? Could be the pilot had reason to remove them from the plane. I don't know, but what I don know is you don't either. Age old tradition, Captains make the call who can board their ships. And why are you writing such gibberish?

QUOTE
And that thing you posted earlier about the wife of a Muslim whose husband prayed sitting down - you should know, since you like to interpret the Quran so literally, that the Quran demands Muslims pray facing a qibla (a marker showing the direction to Mecca), bowing with their heads on the ground, or at the bare minimum, bowed on their knees if the ground is dirty or in public. So this woman is full of crap.


LOL, You have a problem with me using the literal meaning of the Qu'ran. Why for? Perhaps your indignation should be directed toward those Muslims who believe in the Qu'ran's literal word. I only report that portions the word are indeed evil, and there are Muslims who try their best to follow those portions. Why don't you tell those Muslims, who take the Qu'ran literally they got it all wrong...Mohammad would not approve. Hmmmm, then again, Mohammad did some awfully naughty things. I mean for a spiritual guy and all.

You weren't there but the lady is full of crap. Hey, do you admire Noah and Said too? Reason why I ask is because Noam can tell what is what in a story because he is so aware and is brilliant. LOL! wink.gif
MrLeft
QUOTE
Uhhhh, were you?


I never said anything presuming that I was. I backed off of my untenable claim long before you showed up in this thread... now it's time for you to do the same.

QUOTE
There goes that logic fallacy syndrome again.


What are you talking about? How is there a logic fallacy in that? I'm merely correcting you.

Read up on Harpers Ferry; The Whiskey Rebellion; Shay's Rebellion; Pearl Harbor; The Fort Wilson Riot (which the British used the word terrorist attack to describe way back in 1779)... Just a few off the top of my head. (Add the bombing of abortion clinics, as the following post by CanesRugbyBillsFootball points out)...

Do you even know what a "logic fallacy" actually is, in terms of P's and Q's? Can you demonstrate to me in logical notation precisely how I expressed such a fallacy? Of course you can't.... because I didn't.

QUOTE
There's that syndrome again. LOL! How do the buddhist behave? I'm sorry forgot has nothing to do with the subject.


LOL indeed, you freakin' 'tard...


I'm not sure what Buddhists have to do with this... You made a claim about Muslims "pushing and taunting, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion...," as if they are the only people to commit this crime that you accuse them of. I'm just saying if you're going to judge the Muslims based on a single incident, then why can't I judge Christians similarly? Are they both not pushy and unashamedly arrogant sometimes? If you're wondering what gives me the right to say that about Christians, well, I'm wondering the same thing about your bigoted azz and your problem with Muslims (particularly, here, with regard to Muslim-Americans)...


As above; look up the meaning of logical fallacy... demonstrate in logical notation precisely how anything above is a logical fallacy.

QUOTE
Why are you so upset about 6 Muslims, who were removed from a plane because they are allegedly were disruptive on said plane? Could be the pilot had reason to remove them from the plane. I don't know, but what I don know is you don't either. Age old tradition, Captains make the call who can board their ships. And why are you writing such gibberish?


As I posted earlier in this thread (indeed, in my last thread) it is possible the Captain acted rightly. It is also possible that the Imams were the target of discrimination for no other reason than that they are Islamic. It is unclear precisely what happened... But things just don't add up.

Since you have a habit of not really reading people's posts and then chastizing them, I'll let this go. But for your information, I backed off my original post that this is bona-fide bigotry.

QUOTE
LOL, You have a problem with me using the literal meaning of the Qu'ran. Why for? Perhaps your indignation should be directed toward those Muslims who believe in the Qu'ran's literal word.



So you admit that you do so, then? Purposely?

QUOTE
I only report that portions the word are indeed evil, and there are Muslims who try their best to follow those portions.


This is quite the departure from your previous posts... Are you going soft?

QUOTE
Why don't you tell those Muslims, who take the Qu'ran literally they got it all wrong...


I do and I have. In the classroom, at work, in public, and in private.

QUOTE
Mohammad would not approve. Hmmmm, then again, Mohammad did some awfully naughty things. I mean for a spiritual guy and all.


Whatever that's supposed to mean.

QUOTE
You weren't there but the lady is full of crap.


I'm criticizing her words, which you yourself posted. If I needed to be there when she said it in order to criticize her, then you needed to be there when she said it before you praise her in order to criticize six Imams who you've likewise never met.

Now this, my friend, is a good example of your logical fallacies.

QUOTE
Hey, do you admire Noah and Said too? Reason why I ask is because Noam can tell what is what in a story because he is so aware and is brilliant. LOL!


Indeed, this is true. He is a fine linguist.
Stealth
QUOTE (MrLeft @ Nov 23 2006, 08:05 PM) *
I never said anything presuming that I was. I backed off of my untenable claim long before you showed up in this thread... now it's time for you to do the same.
What are you talking about? How is there a logic fallacy in that? I'm merely correcting you.


Sorry, I must have missed the part when you "backed off" your "untenable claim long before" I "showed up in this thread" Especially, since I was the first person to make a post and direct your attention to that fact. A refresher:

QUOTE
I agree with the Imam in question; it's becoming a bit ridiculous that many Muslims are taken out of planes and taken aside at airports due to people's ignorance and bigotry.


QUOTE
Read up on Harpers Ferry; The Whiskey Rebellion; Shay's Rebellion; Pearl Harbor; The Fort Wilson Riot (which the British used the word terrorist attack to describe way back in 1779)... Just a few off the top of my head. (Add the bombing of abortion clinics, as the following post by CanesRugbyBillsFootball points out)...

Do you even know what a "logic fallacy" actually is, in terms of P's and Q's? Can you demonstrate to me in logical notation precisely how I expressed such a fallacy? Of course you can't.... because I didn't.
LOL indeed, you freakin' 'tard...
Observe

Good for you, you caught my comment about Buddhism. While you express uncertainty I have none, Buddhism doesn't have anything to do with the evil of Islam; nor does Christianity or "Harper's Ferry and so on. There is no mitigation; there is no moral equivocation. Your attempt to do so is an application of a failure in logic.

QUOTE
I'm not sure what Buddhists have to do with this... You made a claim about Muslims "pushing and taunting, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion...," as if they are the only people to commit this crime that you accuse them of. I'm just saying if you're going to judge the Muslims based on a single incident, then why can't I judge Christians similarly?


You really should make the effort to get your facts straight. I made no claims, only presented another side of the story. I have not referred to Islam as a gutter religion at any time. I made no judgements, you did. I called you on it by, again, presenting other view points. I am inclined to believe you don't like other view points.

QUOTE
Are they both not pushy and unashamedly arrogant sometimes? If you're wondering what gives me the right to say that about Christians, well, I'm wondering the same thing about your bigoted azz and your problem with Muslims (particularly, here, with regard to Muslim-Americans)...
As above; look up the meaning of logical fallacy... demonstrate in logical notation precisely how anything above is a logical fallacy.
As I posted earlier in this thread (indeed, in my last thread) it is possible the Captain acted rightly. It is also possible that the Imams were the target of discrimination for no other reason than that they are Islamic. It is unclear precisely what happened... But things just don't add up.


LOL! "Pushy and unashamedly arrogant"! Yep, people can get that way...don't know if Christians and Muslims have a corner on the market. Why don't you leave the bias generalizations out of this. Your problems with Christianity sure do get your panties in a wad. "It is unclear precisely what happened", that much is obvious. It was obvious when you created the thread.

QUOTE
Since you have a habit of not really reading people's posts and then chastizing them, I'll let this go. But for your information, I backed off my original post that this is bona-fide bigotry.
Oooh, you backed off when you got called on it, but your knee-jerk reaction was to side with the poor immans, just brilliant.

So you admit that you do so, then? Purposely?

Well of course I do! Is that not what real Muslims do? They take the book they believe was written outside of time, for all times as true, which they are commanded to do. Who am I to argue? Who are you to say I am wrong for believing they believe?
QUOTE
This is quite the departure from your previous posts... Are you going soft?
I do and I have. In the classroom, at work, in public, and in private.
Whatever that's supposed to mean.

Wow! That must make you feel good explaining to Muslims how their beliefs in Islam are all wrong. "Excuse me, but I am from the West and we in the West know you have Islam all wrong, brilliant.

QUOTE
I'm criticizing her words, which you yourself posted. If I needed to be there when she said it in order to criticize her, then you needed to be there when she said it before you praise her in order to criticize six Imams who you've likewise never met.
What you said was she was full of crap, perhaps a liar? Again, you are dishonest. I didn't praise her only presented another view point, which again, I believe you don't like.

QUOTE
Now this, my friend, is a good example of your logical fallacies.
LOL! Whatever

QUOTE
Indeed, this is true. He is a fine linguist.
So I understand. Tell me are there anyother fine linguist you admire, LOL. popcorn.gif wink.gif
Stealth
QUOTE (MrLeft @ Nov 22 2006, 02:56 PM) *
I agree with the Imam in question; it's becoming a bit ridiculous that many Muslims are taken out of planes and taken aside at airports due to people's ignorance and bigotry. Too bad Nomad wasn't there to put his foot down, then these fellows could have sued him for more than he's worth! I don't believe these folks deserve this embarassment, and the people need to wake up and get educated about their very own countrymen....

Passenger raised concern; police questioned scholars before releasing them
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096/


LOL! Do you also agree with their actions, which brought attention to themselves? This thread demonstrates the width and breadth ideological bias. popcorn.gif wink.gif

All six claim to be Americans, so clearly they were aware of heightened security. Surely they knew that groups of Muslim men flying together while praying to Allah fit the modus operandi of the 9/11 hijackers and would make a pilot nervous. Throw in anti-U.S. remarks and odd demands about seat belts, and they might as well have yelled, "Bomb!" Read more...

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/016007.php
Nomad
QUOTE
That's a stretch... More hyperbole than anything, to put it mildly... In fact, I find this offensive. Were you there? Do you know these people? What justifies saying these things?
Muslim history justifies it. And the fact you find my statement "offensive" pleases the Jihadists no end.
QUOTE
Also - if we go back from the foundation of the Anglo-American colonies, through the founding of the United States, up to today, we will find terrorist attacks executed by more folks than Muslims... way to demonize people for no reason, jingo.
What relevance does that have to the carnage perpetrated by muslims today? Unless you are the sort that blames all the worlds' ills on the white crackers...........
QUOTE
And just to let you know, there's Christians in my town who stand on street corners with tacky signs shouting at the top of their lungs how everyone is going to go to hell... This happens all over... pushy Christians with their Bible tracts and their ranting in public... this isn't so uncommon... couldn't someone possibly interpret that type of thing as "pushing and taunting, with unashamed arrogance, their supposed right to practice their gutter religion," as you say above?
Oh please. WTF do you think you're fooling here? And even it that were true there is no logical comparison to six Muslims on a plane. When was the last time a Christian killed 3000 people by flying planes into buildings.

033.gif 033.gif 033.gif
MrRight
Sorry, I must have missed the part when you "backed off" your "untenable claim long before" I "showed up in this thread" Especially, since I was the first person to make a post and direct your attention to that fact. A refresher:

QUOTE
"I agree with the Imam in question; it's becoming a bit ridiculous that many Muslims are taken out of planes and taken aside at airports due to people's ignorance and bigotry."


Okay, genius... now look between that sentence and the end of the thread...
Nomad
Why are you and MrLeft so eager to defend the Muslims and so eager to condemn the Christians and Jews? Perhaps we have a couple of Jihadists here......................Unwitting dupes perhaps, but Jihadists just the same.......................

033.gif 033.gif 033.gif
Yen
Frankly, I find it disappointing that now in the US it is acceptable, nay meritable, to persecute an unpopular social group who dares to draw attention to themselves. This should be unacceptable, but, the realities of modern society have ushered in a second class status for members of our citizenry. They are guilty of praying in public, and being unashamed of it. Our puritan founders would be proud. Good god, do you know how many quakers endured imprisonment and torture to defeat this very sort of mentality?

As I understand it, the logic circle runs something like this. They are different, and they know they are different, and they know that people are afraid of them for being different, and they know that if they draw attention to their differences people will be afraid, and they did it anyways, so peoples suspicion and the resulting violations of civil rights are completely justified. This is the same sort of treatment a christian could have expected in the old USSR, and I doubt anyone is going to seriously defend that government.


Lets be honest here, a group of muslim men praying and then discussing their belief that it was not muslims who blew up the WTC should not be shocking in the least. After all, several of the supposed hijackers are still alive and kicking today (they were all victims of identity theft), so it should be noted that on that ALONE, we cannot be certain that it was muslims flying those planes. It is also worth being noted that Osama Bin Laden is on record for having DENIED participating in the 9-11 attacks a couple of days after they occured, only that video links him to it. And that video has some very big inconsistencies in it, namely the Osama in the video is right handed, and the real Osama is left handed.

Whether the suspicions of people were caused by ignorence or realism is up to debate, but the reality is that some US citizens had their civil liberties curtailed, and it was done to the sound of applaus. Sad, so very, very, veryvery sad.
Nomad
QUOTE (Yen @ Nov 25 2006, 07:40 PM) *
Lets be honest here, a group of muslim men praying and then discussing their belief that it was not muslims who blew up the WTC should not be shocking in the least. After all, several of the supposed hijackers are still alive and kicking today (they were all victims of identity theft), so it should be noted that on that ALONE, we cannot be certain that it was muslims flying those planes. It is also worth being noted that Osama Bin Laden is on record for having DENIED participating in the 9-11 attacks a couple of days after they occured, only that video links him to it. And that video has some very big inconsistencies in it, namely the Osama in the video is right handed, and the real Osama is left handed.



You have proof of this.............................

popcorn.gif popcorn.gif popcorn.gif
Stealth
QUOTE (Nomad @ Nov 25 2006, 08:29 PM) *
You have proof of this.............................

popcorn.gif popcorn.gif popcorn.gif

QUOTE
Lets be honest here, a group of muslim men praying and then discussing their belief that it was not muslims who blew up the WTC should not be shocking in the least. After all, several of the supposed hijackers are still alive and kicking today (they were all victims of identity theft), so it should be noted that on that ALONE, we cannot be certain that it was muslims flying those planes. It is also worth being noted that Osama Bin Laden is on record for having DENIED participating in the 9-11 attacks a couple of days after they occured, only that video links him to it. And that video has some very big inconsistencies in it, namely the Osama in the video is right handed, and the real Osama is left handed.__Yen


Those of you who instantly decided that these immans were treated unfairly should ask yourself the question why they were automatically without responsiblility for what happened. In hindsight it would appear the plane's Captain made the sensible call. wink.gif

Not all fanatics are equally dangerous; If I sit next to a Hari Krishna who mindlessly repeats "Hari Krishna", I know that the worst he can do is offer me some incense -- not blow me away to kingdom come. Read more
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/...articleID=17171
Stealth
QUOTE (Stealth @ Nov 27 2006, 11:33 AM) *
Those of you who instantly decided that these immans were treated unfairly should ask yourself the question why they were automatically without responsiblility for what happened. In hindsight it would appear the plane's Captain made the sensible call. wink.gif

Not all fanatics are equally dangerous; If I sit next to a Hari Krishna who mindlessly repeats "Hari Krishna", I know that the worst he can do is offer me some incense -- not blow me away to kingdom come. Read more
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/...articleID=17171


The scales are tipping!

"Or were they, as seems more likely, trying to make a political statement? Were they trying to show just how bigoted and backwards Americans are? Just because four planes crashed as their hijackers screamed “Allah Akbar!” five years ago, suddenly everyone who says “Allah Akbar” while flying becomes suspect in the eyes of the typical American rube. It’s not fair. After all, a Roman Catholic could make the Sign of the Cross before eating his airline-issued Animal Crackers and no one would look twice."

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/a91c6257-...a5-089c1299fb3d
Stealth
QUOTE (Stealth @ Nov 27 2006, 08:32 PM) *
The scales are tipping!

"Or were they, as seems more likely, trying to make a political statement? Were they trying to show just how bigoted and backwards Americans are? Just because four planes crashed as their hijackers screamed “Allah Akbar!” five years ago, suddenly everyone who says “Allah Akbar” while flying becomes suspect in the eyes of the typical American rube. It’s not fair. After all, a Roman Catholic could make the Sign of the Cross before eating his airline-issued Animal Crackers and no one would look twice."

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/a91c6257-...a5-089c1299fb3d


And tipping, What do you think now Mr. Left? This incident would appear to be more and more a negative reflection on the immans. Who appear to be pandering to the emotions of Moonbats, like yourself. The immans appear to have a plan to lead people like you around by the nose in order to further their designs. popcorn.gif wink.gif

Of course the Imams are latching on to the old race card here and trying to claim they were the victims of racial profiling. They are making a lot of noise and have even called upon Congress to create laws against passenger profiling. But make no mistake, it wasn’t the color of these men’s skin that got them kicked off the plane, nor was it any religious practices or American ignorance and insensitivity. The reason these men were not allowed flight was because of a combination of strange behavior. http://stoptheaclu.com/archives/2006/11/28...or-than-prayers
Nomad
By now it is obvious these muzzy pigs at the very least were attempting to provoke the very situation they are in now......... Being portrayed as poor victims by the anti-American leftist media and the lemmings/ostriches that follow them......................................

QUOTE
How the imams terrorized an airliner
By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 28, 2006


Muslim religious leaders removed from a Minneapolis flight last week exhibited behavior associated with a security probe by terrorists and were not merely engaged in prayers, according to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials.
Witnesses said three of the imams were praying loudly in the concourse and repeatedly shouted "Allah" when passengers were called for boarding US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix.
"I was suspicious by the way they were praying very loud," the gate agent told the Minneapolis Police Department.
Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.
"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."


The Article

Or was this something more sinister. I would look to see more of this in the future as this mussy pigs try to get their behavior accecpted as a norm trying to lower our guard as a prelude to another round of air attacks.

These bastards should have been charged with malicious mischief at the very least.....................

004.gif 004.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif
galloway
No sense in dialogue with Stealth or NoMad. They will advocate having all muslims wear "cresents" on their clothing, to identify "potential tar-ists" (redneck terms).

I wonder if they realize how close Zionism is with Naziism?


I'm sure they do. smile.gif

They think Jihad means killing unarmed, innocent people..... but that exactly what USrael is doing in the M.E!
Stealth
QUOTE (galloway @ Dec 19 2006, 06:29 AM) *
No sense in dialogue with Stealth or NoMad. They will advocate having all muslims wear "cresents" on their clothing, to identify "potential tar-ists" (redneck terms).

I wonder if they realize how close Zionism is with Naziism?
I'm sure they do. smile.gif

They think Jihad means killing unarmed, innocent people..... but that exactly what USrael is doing in the M.E!


LOL! Fine examples of "Turn-speak" rolleyes.gif popcorn.gif wink.gif cool.gif

Islam made Jews wear symbols of idenification long before the Nazi Germany did it. Islam was admired by some notable Nazis. Some notable Arabs, like the Grand Mufti admired the Nazi's. True Islam is an ideology, which is surpasses Nazism in its evil. You project Islam's evil on to others. wink.gif
dixon76710
Not to mention that while Zionism seeks to control Israel and Naziism sought to control much of Europe, Islam seeks to control the WORLD! MARK
galloway
QUOTE (Stealth @ Dec 20 2006, 10:19 PM) *
LOL! Fine examples of "Turn-speak" rolleyes.gif popcorn.gif wink.gif cool.gif

Islam made Jews wear symbols of idenification long before the Nazi Germany did it. Islam was admired by some notable Nazis. Some notable Arabs, like the Grand Mufti admired the Nazi's. True Islam is an ideology, which is surpasses Nazism in its evil. You project Islam's evil on to others. wink.gif


How long did it take you to make that up? This is a new zionist form of propaganda.....

Jews have lived with arabs in peace for centuries.... its only when zionism was spawn, that we find nazism, communism and all the other "isms" that are at war with the Creator and the truth.
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Dec 21 2006, 05:26 AM) *
Not to mention that while Zionism seeks to control Israel and Naziism sought to control much of Europe, Islam seeks to control the WORLD! MARK



World ZIONIST Jewry is intent upon stealing Arab land from the Nile to the Euphrates and building a Jewish Temple on the site of the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock.

This is no secret, they OPENLY have this as their active agenda. In this light, there is no wonder america can perform stupid operations like attacking Iraq (an active zionist policy in washington), most of which falls inside the Euphrates, there is no secret why israel wants Syria, Lebanon, Iran destroyed, marginalized at the bare minimum, why israel is supporting anti-muslim forces in east africa (Nile), no secret why Israel is supporting and training Kurdish terrorists in Northern iraq (against Turkey).
iswhatitis
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 9 2007, 06:08 PM) *
How long did it take you to make that up? This is a new zionist form of propaganda.....

Jews have lived with arabs in peace for centuries.... its only when zionism was spawn, that we find nazism, communism and all the other "isms" that are at war with the Creator and the truth.

Where was that part where American forces killed the enemies of the United States? You know the ones that blew up the barracks in Lebenon, the ones that blew up PAN-AM flight 103, the ones that blew up the World Trade Center in 1993, the ones the blew up the USS Cole, the ones that blew up the U.S. consulate in Tanzania, the ones that blew up the U.S. consulate in Kenya, the ones shooting at our military planes etc etc.

Where is this scorn for Arabs killing Arabs? Hundreds die every month in Iraq indescriminately as a result of road side and shopping center bombs in the abstract, and more descriminately at the entrances to particular Muslim sites. I guess it's much harder to condemn the insanity you are breeding than to create the myths you propagate. That's why you are the enemy. Sooner or later Americans will figure out that you must either change your mind or die, or America will die.
ustrader
It appears the guys that dis some the African embasy bombings and some other things mentioned are looking up those very worn out 72 Martyr virgins.

U.S. targets al Qaeda in Somalia air strike

By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
January 10, 2007

The U.S. has taken its covert war in East Africa public with an air strike this week on suspected al Qaeda leaders in Somalia.

The Pentagon confirmed yesterday that an AC-130 gunship attacked terror suspects in southern Somalia on Monday. The targets were thought to be al Qaeda operatives who carried out the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in East Africa. The trio and Islamist allies have been working to make the ungoverned Somalia a terrorist safe haven.

The strike came amid a mass exodus from Mogadishu, the capital, of Islamist militants who had been routed by a combined force of the Ethiopian and Somali governments.

In a sign that more strikes could come from the U.S. or Ethiopian allies, the Navy has positioned the carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower off the coast and begun flying reconnaissance missions over Somalia.

It was the first overt U.S. military strike in Somalia since 1994, shortly after Army Rangers and Delta Force commandos battled Islamist militants and clans in a 1993 street battle immortalized in the book and movie "Black Hawk Down." The battle cost 18 American lives and prompted President Clinton to withdraw all U.S. forces.

Senior defense sources say the AC-130 was not the first action in and around Somalia since the September 11, 2001, attacks and the subsequent placement of a U.S. military task force in Djibouti a few miles from the Somalia border. The sources said the task force has periodically launched special operations missions against militants, but they declined to give specifics of where and when.

In addition, the U.S. has sent a specialized military intelligence unit into Somalia from time to time to try to locate and identify al Qaeda operatives.
\
The Washington Times learned of one mission in which the unit located an al Qaeda cell in Somalia and passed the information on to Jordanian officials. "They took it from there," one defense source said. Jordanian King Abdullah II is one of America's strongest Arab allies in the war on terror.

The U.S. has been hunting three key al Qaeda leaders on the Horn of Africa who carried out the 1998 bombing of two U.S. embassies. They are Abu Talha al-Sudani, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed and Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan.

In testimony last summer, Jendayi E. Frazer, the State Department's assistant secretary for African affairs, told Congress the three suspects "pose an immediate threat to both Somalia and international interests in the Horn of Africa."

She said U.S. counterterrorism planning was "directly related to the presence of these foreign terrorists and individuals willing to offer them safe haven within Somalia." She promised "strong measures to deny terrorists safe haven in Somalia. We must deny them the ability to plan and operate."

The U.S. task force in Djibouti was one of the first overseas deployments in the war ordered by former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. One of its key tasks is to train the military of friendly governments, such as Ethiopia, in counterterrorism. Ethiopia, like other East African nations, maintains liaison officers at
U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Fla.

"We have close ties to the Ethiopians," said a former Central Command officer.

A Pentagon spokesman confirmed Monday's attack, saying it was based on intelligence on the ground. But the source had no confirmation of who was killed. An intelligence official said the AC-130 volleys killed five to 10 persons.

At the White House, spokesman Tony Snow declined to discuss the specific strike, but reiterated America's right to go after al Qaeda globally.

"It is pretty clear that this administration continues to go after al Qaeda," he said. "We are interested in going after those who have perpetrated acts of violence against Americans, including bombings of embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and we will continue to conduct whatever operations we can to go after that."

"We've made it clear that this is a global war on terror, and this is a reiteration of the fact that people who think that they're going to try to establish safe haven for al Qaeda anyplace need to realize that we're going to find them."
\
The Associated Press quoted Abdullahi Yusuf, head of Somalia's U.N.-supported Transitional Federal Government, as saying, the U.S. "has a right to bombard terrorist suspects who attacked its embassies in Kenya and Tanzania."

Former military officials said the two main operational al Qaeda figures who are regarded as key threats are Fazul Mohammed and a fourth operative, Aden Hashi Ayro.

"Ayro is fast outpacing Fazul as the major threat," said a former military official close to the region.
One of the former officials said the U.S. raid was a setback for covert regional efforts to broker a deal among moderate Somali Muslims and the U.N.-backed government.
"The action that took place as of late is none too subtle and counterproductive," the former official said. Initial indications are that "minor players were hit and none of the big fish were fried."

The administration has been low-key in discussing developments in Somalia, as the al Qaeda-linked Islamic Courts Union outfought government forces and captured the capital last year. But privately, it considers last month's rout of Islamists from Mogadishu as a victory in the war on terror.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/200701...1960r_page2.htm
galloway
QUOTE (iswhatitis @ Jan 9 2007, 10:43 PM) *
Where was that part where American forces killed the enemies of the United States? You know the ones that blew up the barracks in Lebenon, the ones that blew up PAN-AM flight 103, the ones that blew up the World Trade Center in 1993, the ones the blew up the USS Cole, the ones that blew up the U.S. consulate in Tanzania, the ones that blew up the U.S. consulate in Kenya, the ones shooting at our military planes etc etc.

Where is this scorn for Arabs killing Arabs? Hundreds die every month in Iraq indescriminately as a result of road side and shopping center bombs in the abstract, and more descriminately at the entrances to particular Muslim sites. I guess it's much harder to condemn the insanity you are breeding than to create the myths you propagate. That's why you are the enemy. Sooner or later Americans will figure out that you must either change your mind or die, or America will die.


There is no evidence linking anyone to the events you mention. None. Has there been any trials?, inquiries? Investigations? Who is involved? Who are the contacts? Money sources?.... if you looked at all of this, all roads lead to ISRAEL.

the "arabs killing arabs" phenomenon only occured AFTER USA attacked and occupied iraq..... why do you think that is? Use your brain instead of having chronic selective amnesia.

Statistics show that the victim if violent crimes (terrorism) are muslims. Look at the death rate of people in Palestine, killed by the IDF on a daily basis and has been going on for at least 40 years. The situation in Iraq is IDENTICAL, except, the new villains are the americans.

As far as who the "enemy is" and who should "die"... your threats are mindless and useless. You are your own worst enemy because of your ignorance. You no fundemental understanding of the nature of the wars that are taking place in the M.E and who is really behind them. Look at who is making foreign policy and washington and take note of how many passports they carry (israelis). Use your brain before vomiting your emotional simpleton right wing rants.



.
dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 10 2007, 09:09 AM) *
There is no evidence linking anyone to the events you mention. None. Has there been any trials?, inquiries? Investigations? Who is involved? Who are the contacts? Money sources?.... if you looked at all of this, all roads lead to ISRAEL.


How can you ask those questions at the same time proclaiming such facts? Your questions demonstrate you are completely ignorant of the trials, inquiries Investigations and convictions that have taken place. MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 10 2007, 12:50 PM) *
How can you ask those questions at the same time proclaiming such facts? Your questions demonstrate you are completely ignorant of the trials, inquiries Investigations and convictions that have taken place. MARK


The trials or inquiries resulted in nothing. The accused are nobodies! Who do they work for? Where did they get money, who did they associate with? All of the questions are painted over with a vage "Al-Qaeda".

If we take Mo Atta for example, he had shady dealings with Germans and other non arabs/muslims. He even had dealings with Jack Abramoff. The MSM doesn't tell you about this, they don't want the real questions to be answered. They want, people like YOU to blindly believe in what the zionists what you to believe.

The "war on terror" is fake, manufactured to scare, intimidate and create wars for zionism.
dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 10 2007, 02:06 PM) *
The trials or inquiries resulted in nothing. The accused are nobodies! Who do they work for? Where did they get money, who did they associate with? All of the questions are painted over with a vage "Al-Qaeda".


Nothing? Ramzi Yousef, cleric Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, Abdul Rahman Yasin, Eyad Ismail and about 6 others were tried and convicted for the 1993 WTC. You remember, Ramzi, the Nephew of Khalid who would be the architect of 9/11, 8 years later. Ramzi and Abdul who fled to Iraq to enjoy their safe haven.
Everyone of them genuine MUSLIMS!!! Not Jews dressed to look like muslims. Not muslims tricked into blowing up ###### by those scheming jews. Real live muslims, answering the Islamic call for jihad against America. MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 10 2007, 02:43 PM) *
Nothing? Ramzi Yousef, cleric Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, Abdul Rahman Yasin, Eyad Ismail and about 6 others were tried and convicted for the 1993 WTC. You remember, Ramzi, the Nephew of Khalid who would be the architect of 9/11, 8 years later. Ramzi and Abdul who fled to Iraq to enjoy their safe haven.
Everyone of them genuine MUSLIMS!!! Not Jews dressed to look like muslims. Not muslims tricked into blowing up ###### by those scheming jews. Real live muslims, answering the Islamic call for jihad against America. MARK



Who are they? How do you know they are muslim? How do you know theya re responsible for any crime? Who do they work for? How did they get the weapons/bombs, from who? How did they enter USA? Who assisted them? We already know that the FBI supplied the 1993 WTC bombs..... You see, when you turn over a rock, all kinds of interesting things come about. People who live in caves cannot "be architects of 9/11"
ustrader
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 11 2007, 05:50 AM) *
Who are they? How do you know they are muslim? How do you know theya re responsible for any crime? Who do they work for? How did they get the weapons/bombs, from who? How did they enter USA? Who assisted them? We already know that the FBI supplied the 1993 WTC bombs..... You see, when you turn over a rock, all kinds of interesting things come about. People who live in caves cannot "be architects of 9/11"

P.S. They do not of free will choose to live in caves now do they. They oopsed and we swoop and not a cave dweller they shall be, until we come, then no more shall they be...
dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 10 2007, 04:50 PM) *
Who are they? How do you know they are muslim? How do you know theya re responsible for any crime? Who do they work for? How did they get the weapons/bombs, from who? How did they enter USA? Who assisted them? We already know that the FBI supplied the 1993 WTC bombs..... You see, when you turn over a rock, all kinds of interesting things come about. People who live in caves cannot "be architects of 9/11"


Why do you ask questions and then declare the answer that "we already know"?
I beleive that Ramzi purchased the ingredients for the Urea nitrate and fuel oil bomb and with the help of Iraqi bomb maker Abdul Rahman Yasin, they assembled the bomb themselves. Do you have anything other than your desparate need to believe otherwise, to support your theory that the FBI supplied the bomb.

MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 11 2007, 06:29 AM) *
Why do you ask questions and then declare the answer that "we already know"?
I beleive that Ramzi purchased the ingredients for the Urea nitrate and fuel oil bomb and with the help of Iraqi bomb maker Abdul Rahman Yasin, they assembled the bomb themselves. Do you have anything other than your desparate need to believe otherwise, to support your theory that the FBI supplied the bomb.

MARK



You don't seem to understand,.... these characters do not operate in a vaccum. Most have ties to CIA/MI6 and ultimately Mossad.

This problem with these stories is the motive. That fact that you and your ilk claim that they are doing terrorism because of islam's core beliefs proves that you are a liars. Therefore, the motive for doing terrorism needs to be understood in order to understand how is actually behind them!
dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 11 2007, 10:17 AM) *
You don't seem to understand,.... these characters do not operate in a vaccum. Most have ties to CIA/MI6 and ultimately Mossad.

This problem with these stories is the motive. That fact that you and your ilk claim that they are doing terrorism because of islam's core beliefs proves that you are a liars. Therefore, the motive for doing terrorism needs to be understood in order to understand how is actually behind them!


Their motive is not complicated. Might I suggest
http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/...d/chapter_4.asp
to educate yourself about your own religion and its motives that inspire a worldwide campaign of terror.
MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 11 2007, 09:29 AM) *
Their motive is not complicated. Might I suggest
http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/...d/chapter_4.asp
to educate yourself about your own religion and its motives that inspire a worldwide campaign of terror.
MARK



That's funny that a rabid islamophobe like you wants to teach me islam.... its like a nazi teaching someone about judeism.

You have no idea what you are talking about. That site does not tell anyone to perform or justify terrorism like you people do.
dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 11 2007, 01:00 PM) *
That's funny that a rabid islamophobe like you wants to teach me islam.... its like a nazi teaching someone about judeism.

You have no idea what you are talking about. That site does not tell anyone to perform or justify terrorism like you people do.


I have found that the majority of Muslims who I have met have less knowledge than I regarding the contents of the Koran and Haddiths.
And I was suggesting that Sayyid Qutb educate you. MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 11 2007, 04:03 PM) *
I have found that the majority of Muslims who I have met have less knowledge than I regarding the contents of the Koran and Haddiths.
And I was suggesting that Sayyid Qutb educate you. MARK



That's apperently not the case with me.

You only know a select verses, taken out of context.....

Are you saying that non-muslim, rabid muslim haters like you know more about islam then muslims in general?

You are a loser.
Stealth
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 11 2007, 03:24 PM) *
That's appearnlt not the case with me.

You only know a select verses, taken out of context.....

Are you saying that non-muslim, rabid muslim haters like you know more about islam then muslims in general?

You are a loser.


The old "taken out of context" dodge. Like has been said to you before add any context you want it won't change anything. Why don't you put 9: 29 in context?

I have had several discussions with a Muslim woman recently; she was born into the cult. Her depth of knowledge about Islam is quite lacking. But she does believe in an Islam, her Islam, that is "Not that terrible Arab Islam." She is a nice enough person, but....living near a river in Egypt. wink.gif
dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 11 2007, 05:24 PM) *
That's apperently not the case with me.

You only know a select verses, taken out of context.....

Are you saying that non-muslim, rabid muslim haters like you know more about islam then muslims in general?



Now what the hell makes you think that I would see the few "muslims who I have met" personally here in central Texas, that Ive had such discussions with, would in any way be representative of "muslims in general". Im sure most American Muslims tend to be of the less fervent brand. Ive encountered a few Middle eastern muslims on-line who had little knowledge of text and instead had been raised on some clerics rhetoric in the local mosque. Most muslims I meet on-line dont want to discuss Islamic texts with non believers and usually write off any negative discussions as taking verses out of context or arguing some error in ALL the english translations. MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 11 2007, 07:01 PM) *
Now what the hell makes you think that I would see the few "muslims who I have met" personally here in central Texas, that Ive had such discussions with, would in any way be representative of "muslims in general". Im sure most American Muslims tend to be of the less fervent brand. Ive encountered a few Middle eastern muslims on-line who had little knowledge of text and instead had been raised on some clerics rhetoric in the local mosque. Most muslims I meet on-line dont want to discuss Islamic texts with non believers and usually write off any negative discussions as taking verses out of context or arguing some error in ALL the english translations. MARK


You take verses out of context. Some verses in the Quran have situational and contextual factors. The "infidels" are specific people who broke the treaty and killed muslim prillgrams during the sacred months.


Verse 9:5 for example:

QUOTE
"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."




Verse 9:1
"(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement."

What does this mean? If you bother to understand this verse and this period of history, the muslims made a treaty with the idolators (infidels)

9:3
"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. "


9: 12
"Will you not fight against those who have broken their oaths and have conspired to banush the messenger? They were the first to attack you."


I met a few people like you who claim that muslims are "ignorant" and you people know "all the evils in islam...",
The bottom line is, that YOU ARE A LIAR and I have exposed it.
ustrader
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 12 2007, 11:55 PM) *
You take verses out of context. Some verses in the Quran have situational and contextual factors. The "infidels" are specific people who broke the treaty and killed muslim prillgrams during the sacred months.
Verse 9:5 for example:
Verse 9:1
"(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement."

What does this mean? If you bother to understand this verse and this period of history, the muslims made a treaty with the idolators (infidels)

9:3
"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. "
9: 12
"Will you not fight against those who have broken their oaths and have conspired to banush the messenger? They were the first to attack you."
I met a few people like you who claim that muslims are "ignorant" and you people know "all the evils in islam...",
The bottom line is, that YOU ARE A LIAR and I have exposed it. Hmm! he is a lair and YOU exposed him hey?

IS IT NOT TRUE on nearly every post you've posted here, someone or the other is in YOUR NEVER PROVEN opine a lair, bigot, racist, ignorant, stupid, idiot and or hate and warmonger and cause of allthe worlds ills EXCEPTING OF COURSE YOU and THOSE YOU PRETEND TO DEFEND?

What pray tell does THAT EXPOSE ABOUT YOU?

dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 12 2007, 10:55 AM) *
You take verses out of context. Some verses in the Quran have situational and contextual factors. The "infidels" are specific people who broke the treaty and killed muslim prillgrams during the sacred months.
Verse 9:5 for example:
Verse 9:1
"(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement."

What does this mean? If you bother to understand this verse and this period of history, the muslims made a treaty with the idolators (infidels)

9:3
"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. "


Aaaaand do you know what that means? "Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters;"?
That means he just rescinded those treaties. You are bolstering my arguement when you quote from the koran. MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 12 2007, 04:36 PM) *
Aaaaand do you know what that means? "Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters;"?
That means he just rescinded those treaties. You are bolstering my arguement when you quote from the koran. MARK



That's because they violated the treaty , not the other way around.

So, explain why you use deception when you quote v 9:5 by itself? Why not provide 9:1 to 9:7??

Because you have an agenda, to spread lies and disinformation.

Here is a verse from the bible:

QUOTE
Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."


Does this mean Jesus is a terrorist and therefore all christians are terrorists?

No, that's how obsurd your arguements are dixon. You should be ashamed in these vile, childish acts, you are a grown adult, who should know better, who should know right from wrong. Instead, you engage in these vile arguments and games about MY religion and the religion of 1 billion people on the face of the plant and you dare call it a "cult"?
dixon76710
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 12 2007, 06:08 PM) *
Here is a verse from the bible:
Does this mean Jesus is a terrorist and therefore all christians are terrorists?


If Pat Robertson, or any Christian clergy was citing Luke and inciting followers to go kill some people, I would be the first to condemn christianity. But of course that isnt happening. Its just the Muslim clerics in mosques from detroit to Saudi Arabia spouting their calls to jihad. Or Bin Laden-

QUOTE
Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)".....

On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it,


and although you dont believe he exists, millions of Muslims around the world who believe and support him because they believe he is the mighty mujahideen who struck a mighty blow against the evil Americans.

QUOTE
"Muslims worldwide will again be watching replays of the collapse of the Twin Towers, praying to Allah … to grant those magnificent 19 Paradise,"
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=34223


And while these muslims see themselves as the "front line for global Islamic conquest", you still have your head buried in the sand with this whole Islam is peace crap. MARK
galloway
QUOTE (dixon76710 @ Jan 12 2007, 07:22 PM) *
If Pat Robertson, or any Christian clergy was citing Luke and inciting followers to go kill some people, I would be the first to condemn christianity. But of course that isnt happening. Its just the Muslim clerics in mosques from detroit to Saudi Arabia spouting their calls to jihad. Or Bin Laden-
and although you dont believe he exists, millions of Muslims around the world who believe and support him because they believe he is the mighty mujahideen who struck a mighty blow against the evil Americans.
And while these muslims see themselves as the "front line for global Islamic conquest", you still have your head buried in the sand with this whole Islam is peace crap. MARK



You are full of sh*it dixon.... you should be ashamed to be part of this movement to create hatred against all muslims.

Pat Roberston has no issue of killing arabs for zion. so don't give me that crap.... lets make that clear.... he wants Jezus to come, therefore arabs will die.

Who is killing who?

You say that imams from "Detroit to Saudi was crying jihad?" Really? I go these mosques... they talk about peace and tolerance, the need for muslims to become more devout.....more pious. We pray for peace, but support those who are trying to defend themselves from tyranny and oppression, not with "terrorism" but by the ways that islam teaches us......No talk of terrorism, no talk of the "magnificent 19" who were drinking, having sex with american whores in FL... and probably not even on the hijacked aircraft.... we know 5 of them are still alive.....You see, no one buys this zionist psychodrama.....
ustrader
QUOTE (galloway @ Jan 13 2007, 10:26 AM) *
You are full of sh*it dixon.... you should be ashamed to be part of this movement to create hatred against all muslims.

Pat Roberston has no issue of killing arabs for zion. so don't give me that crap.... lets make that clear.... he wants Jezus to come, therefore arabs will die.

Who is killing who?

You say that imams from "Detroit to Saudi was crying jihad?" Really? I go these mosques... they talk about peace and tolerance, the need for muslims to become more devout.....more pious. We pray for peace, but support those who are trying to defend themselves from tyranny and oppression, not with "terrorism" but by the ways that islam teaches us......No talk of terrorism, no talk of the "magnificent 19" who were drinking, having sex with american whores in FL... and probably not even on the hijacked aircraft.... we know 5 of them are still alive.....You see, no one buys this zionist psychodrama.....

Really you think so?

They do I am sure....


QUOTE
The Communalist mindset, An echo, asking a shadow to dance, in a soundless room and a perpetual fog of ambiguity, always assuming substance, but clearly lacking any.-TRADER

galloway
Shut up traitor and stop hijacking threads with your meaningless vomit.
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