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Thaiquila
Who would you choose when you go to a doctor with a life threatening disease?
Kerry making a bold differientation between himself and the president preacher on the stem cell reseach issue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Jun21.html
John L
I suspect that stem cell research is quickly bypassing the need to use fetal tissue, and that is probably the reason why GW is not pushing it. OTOH, Kerry, is pushing it because he makes good press, and allows, not just the nitwits and Kooks, but also the average Joe on the street to think that he is much smarter than GW.

If you will note, drugs such as RU-486, and newer ones, are entering the market, and making the abortion issue less significant. So, why should not the stem cell research be similar. I suspect that you are falling behind the scientific curve on this one.
Gop 4 life!
I know you people are desperate, but can't you do better than persecuting a good man and his faith.

Your savage attempts to destroy Christianity, this is why liberalism will eventually WITHER AND DIE.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (John L @ Jun 22 2004, 04:19 PM)
I suspect that stem cell research is quickly bypassing the need to use fetal tissue, and that is probably the reason why GW is not pushing it. OTOH, Kerry, is pushing it because he makes good press, and allows, not just the nitwits and Kooks, but also the average Joe on the street to think that he is much smarter than GW.

If you will note, drugs such as RU-486, and newer ones, are entering the market, and making the abortion issue less significant. So, why should not the stem cell research be similar. I suspect that you are falling behind the scientific curve on this one.

You are so wrong about this.

Check this link:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...ws§ion=news

So you DOUBT the opinion of this group of NOBEL PRIZE WINNING scientists? They are saying Bush is ANTI SCIENCE.
Why is he anti science?
Because he is the most IDEOLOGICAL, FUNDAMENTALIST president in US history.
If we reject this kind of insanity from Muslims, even by force of arms, we must save our country and reject this at home by booting out the offenders and replacing them with someone rational, in this case, John F. Kerry.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Gop 4 life! @ Jun 22 2004, 04:24 PM)
I know you people are desperate, but can't you do better than persecuting a good man and his faith.

Your savage attempts to destroy Christianity, this is why liberalism will eventually WITHER AND DIE.

How can we persecute the president? He is the most powerful person in the world. Your assertion is totally irrational.
John L
QUOTE
Because he is the most IDEOLOGICAL, FUNDAMENTALIST president in US history.-thaiquila


Once again, this statement, like SO many of your other ones, simply displays your complete ignorance of US Constitutional AND Presidential history. Presidential history DOES go back further than your lifetime, don't you think?

I have constantly tried to get you to think before you pound the keys so as not to belittle yourself. But, alas, to no avail. So have at it, remembering that your wide sweeping, inaccurate statements will not go unchallenged. cool.gif

I simply cannot understand why you 'so called' atheists are so hate filled toward Christianity, OR Jewish religious belief. You're amazing!
Thaiquila
QUOTE (John L @ Jun 22 2004, 06:51 PM)
QUOTE

Because he is the most IDEOLOGICAL, FUNDAMENTALIST president in US history.-thaiquila


Once again, this statement, like SO many of your other ones, simply displays your complete ignorance of US Constitutional AND Presidential history. Presidential history DOES go back further than your lifetime, don't you think?

I have constantly tried to get you to think before you pound the keys so as not to belittle yourself. But, alas, to no avail. So have at it, remembering that your wide sweeping, inaccurate statements will not go unchallenged. cool.gif

I simply cannot understand why you 'so called' atheists are so hate filled toward Christianity, OR Jewish religious belief. You're amazing!

OK, Mr. Historian, name another president who was more beholden to radical right wing Christian fundamentalism?


Also, I have said repeatedly that I am agnostic, not an atheist, so surely you are not referring to me on that subject.

Personally, I have no problem with complete freedom of worship in any religion, and I also support the right to not participate in any worship. What is deeply offensive is the radical right wing agenda to merge their particular, poisonous flavor of radical right wing Christian fundamentalism and SHOVE IT DOWN THE THROAT of the entire nation, which is supposed to be a SECULAR nation where separation of church and state is the rule.

You are amazing for your thinly veiled ploy of posing as some kind of independent minded intellectual, when in actually, almost all of your views are exactly the same as Bush.
John L
Well, you might want to try here in the Bear Pit section, Bear Pit. Try that out, if you can hold down your blood pressure. We wouldn't want you to get a stroke............of genius.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (John L @ Jun 22 2004, 09:39 PM)
Well, you might want to try here in the Bear Pit section, Bear Pit.  Try that out, if you can hold down your blood pressure.  We wouldn't want you to get a stroke............of genius.

So, again I challenge you to present the name of a US president who is more of an ideological right wing Christian fundamentalist than the current white house resident. You seem to be running from this question.

Don't worry about my blood pressure. It is well under control thanks to medication that I purchase in Canada.
John L
Thai, forgive me, but you wouldn't recognize a tigre if it came up and bit you in the posterior. You're on your own on this one, if you can't follow the trail. You need many different types of help.

Shalom
Boon Mee
Thaiquila, YOU STILL WANT TO VOTE KERRY???

“I don’t think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We’re not going to cut and run and not do the job.” Sept. 14, 2003, edition of CBS's Face the Nation
Even John Kerry can't assume what he himself means!! Incredible....but true!! He said this 4 days after he said the following....

"We cannot authorize or appropriate $87 billion without pulling back some of the unfair Bush tax cut for the wealthiest Americans and investing in the United States of America. If we can open firehouses in Baghdad, we can keep them open in the United States of America."

" I will do what we need to do to protect troops. But I am not going to vote for an open-ended $87 billion without the questions answered that I proposed earlier and without an adequate effort with respect to the international community. John Kerry in the Democratic presidential campaign debate sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus Institute and Fox News Channel Fox News Channel; Tuesday, September 9, 2003"

Here he goes. Blaming Tax cuts for the reason why he can't vote for the money needed to help support the troops in Iraq!! Don't be fooled. The time is September and he's not polling too well. Senator Kerry knows that if he votes for the 87 Billion, the left wing wacko's flooding the polls like MORON.ORG (Moveon.org) will not support him. So in order to selfishly keep his white house hopes alive, he votes against the 87 Billion. Real great guy isn't he??

And, the best one...!

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion, before I voted against it." Mar 16, 2004 laugh.gif
Thaiquila
QUOTE (John L @ Jun 22 2004, 10:05 PM)
Thai, forgive me, but you wouldn't recognize a tigre if it came up and bit you in the posterior. You're on your own on this one, if you can't follow the trail. You need many different types of help.

Shalom

I see the Madison quote. It is unconvincing regarding your assertion. Bush and Company have made statements that are considerably more radically fundamentalistic than that quote. So you have NOT proven your point.

Why say Shalom to me if you hate my guts? It is so fake, like your leader, Bush.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Boon Mee @ Jun 22 2004, 10:33 PM)
Thaiquila, YOU STILL WANT TO VOTE KERRY???

“I don’t think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We’re not going to cut and run and not do the job.” Sept. 14, 2003, edition of CBS's Face the Nation
Even John Kerry can't assume what he himself means!! Incredible....but true!! He said this 4 days after he said the following....

"We cannot authorize or appropriate $87 billion without pulling back some of the unfair Bush tax cut for the wealthiest Americans and investing in the United States of America. If we can open firehouses in Baghdad, we can keep them open in the United States of America."

" I will do what we need to do to protect troops. But I am not going to vote for an open-ended $87 billion without the questions answered that I proposed earlier and without an adequate effort with respect to the international community. John Kerry in the Democratic presidential campaign debate sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus Institute and Fox News Channel Fox News Channel; Tuesday, September 9, 2003"

Here he goes. Blaming Tax cuts for the reason why he can't vote for the money needed to help support the troops in Iraq!! Don't be fooled. The time is September and he's not polling too well. Senator Kerry knows that if he votes for the 87 Billion, the left wing wacko's flooding the polls like MORON.ORG (Moveon.org) will not support him. So in order to selfishly keep his white house hopes alive, he votes against the 87 Billion. Real great guy isn't he??

And, the best one...!

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion, before I voted against it." Mar 16, 2004 laugh.gif

Not polling well, huh?
Dream on.
Bush is on a fast track for the Texas rancho deluxe.
I wish him a long and happy retirement ... like Reagan.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/...rld/8980466.htm

"In a November ballot test, Kerry leads Bush 48 percent to 44 percent among registered voters, with 6 percent supporting Nader. Last month, Kerry and Bush were tied. With Nader out of the race, Kerry's advantage swells to 8 points, evidence of the continuing threat that Nader's candidacy poses to the Democrat."
Thaiquila
Mr. John L.:
You are going to have to do a lot better with your choice of the name of a president that is more of a radical right wing Christian fundamentalist than Bush!
Madison was one of the founders of the concept of SEPARATION OF CHURCH and STATE. He would have been horrified by some of the Bush policies, such as faith based initiatives, which are tricky ways of the government funding religion:

See these quotes from Madison:


"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." JAMES MADISON

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." JAMES MADISON

Do you wish to take another stab at this?
John L
QUOTE
Why say Shalom to me if you hate my guts? It is so fake, like your leader, Bush.-thaiquila


This is so like you Collectivists. You are such slaves to your emotions, and not you logic. I will say this again. I do not hate you at all. I simply do not like your actions, and unbeknownst to you , this is different. But you simply cannot let go of your own hatred of your opponents, and you give yourself away to one and all.

Remember, it is you who you see in that mirror, and noone else. So, it is past time for some intellectual honest. So, please, if you do nothing else, repeat after me, John L does not hate me: John L does no........................................
John L
QUOTE
Madison was one of the founders of the concept of SEPARATION OF CHURCH and STATE.-thaiquila


As usual, you display your ignorance of American History and the Constiturion. There never was a "Separation of Church and State" Clause anywhere in our Constitution, or anywhere, EXCEPT in a letter from Jefferson to the Baptist Convention.

Read this The Myth of the Separation Of Church And State.

QUOTE
Anytime religion is mentioned within the confines of government today people cry, "Separation of Church and State".  Many people think this statement appears in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution and therefore must be strictly enforced.  However, the words: "separation", "church", and "state" do not even appear in the first amendment.  The first amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."  The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut.  The congregation heard a widespread rumor that the Congregationalists, another denomination, were to become the national religion.  This was very alarming to people who knew about religious persecution in England by the state established church.  Jefferson made it clear in his letter to the Danbury Congregation that the separation was to be that government would not establish a national religion or dictate to men how to worship God.  Jefferson's letter from which the phrase "separation of church and state" was taken affirmed first amendment rights.  Jefferson wrote:
I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.  (1)
The reason Jefferson choose the expression "separation of church and state" was because he was addressing a Baptist congregation; a denomination of which he was not a member.  Jefferson wanted to remove all fears that the state would make dictates to the church.  He was establishing common ground with the Baptists by borrowing the words of Roger Williams, one of the Baptist's own prominent preachers.  Williams had said:

When they have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the candlestick, and made his garden a wilderness, as at this day.  And that there fore if He will eer please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world...(2)

The "wall" was understood as one-directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state.  The world was not to corrupt the church, yet the church was free to teach the people Biblical values.


Naturally, I would not expect you to read this or the article, so I will leave it for others to decide. Anyway, you are so hellbent to prove atheist Jewish credintials, which is code for worship of State, that you are blind to the truth.

I am beyond being surprised anymore.
Gop 4 life!
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jun 22 2004, 06:06 PM)
QUOTE (Gop 4 life! @ Jun 22 2004, 04:24 PM)
I know you people are desperate, but can't you do better than persecuting a good man and his faith.

Your savage attempts to destroy Christianity, this is why liberalism will eventually WITHER AND DIE.

How can we persecute the president? He is the most powerful person in the world. Your assertion is totally irrational.

What?

Wow, anyone can be persecuted, how much power they hold makes NO difference.

George W. Bush is a good man who follows the Bible, for this he is called a religious zealot and a wacky fundementalist by socialists who want this country to look like France.

"If they persecute me, they will persecute you" Jesus Christ said that.
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Gop 4 life! @ Jun 23 2004, 03:10 PM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jun 22 2004, 06:06 PM)
QUOTE (Gop 4 life! @ Jun 22 2004, 04:24 PM)
I know you people are desperate, but can't you do better than persecuting a good man and his faith.

Your savage attempts to destroy Christianity, this is why liberalism will eventually WITHER AND DIE.

How can we persecute the president? He is the most powerful person in the world. Your assertion is totally irrational.

What?

Wow, anyone can be persecuted, how much power they hold makes NO difference.

George W. Bush is a good man who follows the Bible, for this he is called a religious zealot and a wacky fundementalist by socialists who want this country to look like France.

"If they persecute me, they will persecute you" Jesus Christ said that.

Oh, poor baby Bush.
He is so persecuted as he flies around in Air Force One.
The worse that can happen to him, and God willing it will, is that he is retired to enjoy his vast wealth back at the ranch.
My bleeding liberal heart oozes with compassion for this poor, pitiful, persecuted soul.
Give me a break!
Boon Mee
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jun 22 2004, 04:51 PM)
Why say Shalom to me if you hate my guts?

Perhaps "Putz" is a better form of greeting?
Thaiquila
QUOTE (Boon Mee @ Jun 23 2004, 05:45 PM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jun 22 2004, 04:51 PM)

Why say Shalom to me if you hate my guts?

Perhaps "Putz" is a better form of greeting?

It would be more honest about the way he actually feels, shmuck.
John L
QUOTE
Perhaps "Putz" is a better form of greeting?-boon Me

QUOTE
It would be more honest about the way he actually feels, shmuck.-Thaiquila


Well, at least you both have your Yiddish down pat. Except putz, in German, really referrs to more than that and is innocent. Putz Is Yiddish.....Well Not Quite.

However, Thai, your usual acidic remarks are misplaced. Had I wished to use obscene slang on you, I would not have wished you "peace". And believe me, I wish you peace, because you sorely need it. Obviously, it is you who has harmful intend in mind, but I am not surprised. wink.gif
Thaiquila
Thanks for the kind sentiment.
I will have peace aplenty come November when we kick out the regime of holy roller war criminals.
John L
QUOTE
Thanks for the kind sentiment.-Thaiquila

You're more than welcome! smile.gif
QUOTE
I will have peace aplenty come November when we kick out the regime of holy roller war criminals.-thaiquila

Does this mean that if GW is reelected you will have no peace aplenty? If so, it would be such a shame that you allow this to twist your thinking. At least another Jew disagrees with you, The Wisdom Of President Bush.
QUOTE
Those who oppose the Bush Doctrine – articulated in the president’s address to a joint session of Congress after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 – also criticize the president’s opposition to the Kyoto Protocol and the International Court of Justice and his ending of the ABM (anti-ballistic missile) treaty. I agree with the positions taken by the president.

In another, Bolting For Bush, he restates his support. It is a shame that not all Jews can use logic as Mayor Koch.

Oh, BTY, since you are not happy with universal health care, would you be ammendable to accomplishing this using a market approach?
Gop 4 life!
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jun 23 2004, 05:32 PM)
QUOTE (Gop 4 life! @ Jun 23 2004, 03:10 PM)
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jun 22 2004, 06:06 PM)
QUOTE (Gop 4 life! @ Jun 22 2004, 04:24 PM)
I know you people are desperate, but can't you do better than persecuting a good man and his faith.

Your savage attempts to destroy Christianity, this is why liberalism will eventually WITHER AND DIE.

How can we persecute the president? He is the most powerful person in the world. Your assertion is totally irrational.

What?

Wow, anyone can be persecuted, how much power they hold makes NO difference.

George W. Bush is a good man who follows the Bible, for this he is called a religious zealot and a wacky fundementalist by socialists who want this country to look like France.

"If they persecute me, they will persecute you" Jesus Christ said that.

Oh, poor baby Bush.
He is so persecuted as he flies around in Air Force One.
The worse that can happen to him, and God willing it will, is that he is retired to enjoy his vast wealth back at the ranch.
My bleeding liberal heart oozes with compassion for this poor, pitiful, persecuted soul.
Give me a break!

*Sigh*

Yes, Jesus warned that all of his followers would at one point in their lives be persecuted for their religious beliefs.

The halarious part is that the person persecuting him most, is a traitor to his own Christian faith.
Thaiquila
GOP: "
*Sigh*

Yes, Jesus warned that all of his followers would at one point in their lives be persecuted for their religious beliefs.

The halarious part is that the person persecuting him most, is a traitor to his own Christian faith. "

If you SERIOUSLY believe that JESUS meant GEORGE W BUSH in these warnings, you are so incredibly deluded as to bely comprehension.
Gop 4 life!
QUOTE (Thaiquila @ Jun 24 2004, 03:37 PM)
GOP: "
*Sigh*

Yes, Jesus warned that all of his followers would at one point in their lives be persecuted for their religious beliefs.

The halarious part is that the person persecuting him most, is a traitor to his own Christian faith. "

If you SERIOUSLY believe that JESUS meant GEORGE W BUSH in these warnings, you are so incredibly deluded as to bely comprehension.

Ummmmmmm, ok.

I never said that.

I said that at one point in their lives, Christians will be persecuted for their religious beliefs.
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