A lot of people defend Iraq simply saying that Americans aren't being killed at the same rate. That 3,000 isn't that many. How many dead does it take before it becomes too many?

If we end up staying in Iraq and it reaches 58,000 what will they say then?

What will we say when Iran develops nukes and kills millions, what will we say then?

What will you say when I remind you that we lost 3,000 splendid young men on many DAYS during WWII.
One of the primary reasons was a lack of training.

Another primary reason is that we were not allowed to prepare and arm properly for the day. The nitwit isolationists joined with the pacifists to deny the reality of storm-clouds on the horizon.
Today is the anniversary of D-Day Europe. Anyone know how many we lost on that one day?
Bean

The Allied invasion plans had called for the capture of Carentan, St. Lô, Caen and Bayeux on the first day, with all the beaches linked except Utah, and Sword (the last linked with paratroopers) and a front line six to ten miles (10 to 16 km) from the beaches. In practice none of these had been achieved. However, overall the casualties had not been as heavy as some had feared (around 10,000 compared to the 20,000 Churchill feared), and the bridgeheads had withstood the expected counterattacks.

I know we lost around 1500 on Omaha Beach alone. And then 300 on Utah beach. And Id say around 1,000 paratroopers KIA on June 6.

So Im gonna guess (without looking) that we had about 3,000 KIA.

You guys are getting it. Thank God we still have young men willing to take the risk of life itself for their buds and for our country....for no other gains but honor....and for the right.

Father, embrace them and find a place in your Kingdom for them...amen
Bean

It would be far better, and more righteous, to pray "Father, bring them home safely so that they stop killing and being killed, so that we can remind them that their Lord and Savior still is their ultimate commander in chief, ordering them to LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. ...SO THAT YOU BE GOD'S CHILDREN. Amen."

After D –day June 6 it look another just 11 months for complete victory in Europe Over the Nazis

So are you say in 11 months time we will have defeated the insurgence ?

Or will we be still locked in to a slow bleed war….with no end

I fear the latter

Father, embrace them and put their arms and legs back on, find a place in your Kingdom for them, under the stairs with elvis will do, God thanks for all the war, child cancer and my wifes cooking, your the best ...amen

Who is it that you pray to to ressurect 40+ million people lost in a war caused in part by ignoring an insurgent reaction to WW1? Ignoring problems usually doesn't make them go away, sometimes they fester and erupt into a huge calamity, and even at that late moment some people still prefer to ignore calamity in favor of selfish preservation because they do not have a moral compass that leads them beyond the nose on their own faces.

Congrats you have no answer other than childish swags at religion. I notice that you have no answer to lost limbs or child cancer, just makes you feel better to poke at folks in order to cause more "enlightenment" and soothe your superiority. Thanks, can't wait for your next dose of wisdom, human healing and self importance. You're a GOD man.

If we're going to invoke or quote war prayers. we could add the one by Mark Twain: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html

"....O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst,... broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love..."

Participation and support of warfare is antithetical to both the words and spirit of Jesus Christ.

Fit, I'm waiting for the day when you add "IMHO" to these statements of yours...because that's all they are...your opinions.
And just to add my own opinion: Jesus did say "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" Did he condemn warfare when he said that? No He did not. What He said and meant...IMHO...is that if you choose to be a Soldier or warrior, then that's most likely how you are going to die.

Of course they're only opinions! I'm not God! We seldom spout incontrovertible facts here; we express personal, fallible, human opinions. Almost all of us do that. As a Christian, I do speak my opinion, and to nobody's surprise, most of us think that our opinions agree with God's. So here is the qualifier for everything you, I, SoloNav, Ben T, et al, say: these are the opinions of people posting on internet web forums. These opinions may disagree with others, with the owners and moderators, with sitting presidents and monarchs, et al. Especially with Al.

Context, KenRI. As Jesus said that to Peter ('those who live by the sword....), they were approached by a cohort (up to 500 trained Roman active duty soldiers), trying to arrest them. It was a direct rebuke against Peter using a sword, in the immediate context that included ordering Peter to put that sword back into its storage place. Then, in the Gospel of John, Jesus simply said one thing in Aramaic that was God's name: I AM. That statement, in which God pronounced His own name, caused the entire cohort to fall back to the ground, unconscious. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but divinely empowered, to the pulling down of strongholds. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood. If Jesus' kingdom were of this world, then his servants would have been fighting. The full armor of God is entirely spiritual.

So once again, I admit that I'm not God, but I do believe (in my not so humble opinion) that you folks who support Christian participation in modern warfare are arguing against God's word and God's will.

Shall we adjourn to the Religion forum here, and resurrect or restart the arguments against any possibility that Christians can take part in warfare, that warfare can be 'just' (righteous) for Christians, etc.? If you can point out the exact place where any of my opposition proved that Christian warfare in this dispensation of time can be divinely rightous, please do so. Thank you, and God bless you.

Sure, Fit, lets. But first lets discuss how homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. Then let's discuss how taking the log out of your own eye (and I would say your justification of homosexuality is quite a big log) before you judge others.
I think you are severely blinded because you practice, defend, and accept a homosexual lifestyle, and then go so far as to not call it sin..that is CLEARLY against all things Christian. SO WHO ARE YOU TO SAY ANYTHING TO ANYBODY ABOUT SINNING OR WHAT JESUS TAUGHT SEEING THAT YOU ARE LIVING A SINFUL, HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE??

By the way, I'm not judging or condemning you, I'm just stating an opinion. Way too many people are blinded by their own sin, as you are, and should really try to deal with that first before coming out (no pun intended) and judging or condemning others.

Please, brother, don't change the subject.

KenRI, if you wish to debate the practice of consenting adult Christians engaging in sex during this dispensation of human history, make a separate post in another thread. But you probably can't do so according to the normal rules of civil debate, or the normal rules of forum debate.

What you have resorted to here and now, is a personal attack that's unrelated to the argument at hand. That indicates that you lost the real argument about warfare. Because you reject homosexual practices, you refuse to debate the issue of whether Christians can be faithful disciples and participate in war or bless war. I was a Christian pacifist (Baptist) and heterosexual for many years before becoming a practicing homosexual. The arguments against war are Scriptural, divine, righteous. Your arguments for war have not shown themselves to be so.

May God bless us all richly, and bring us into His truth, and in obedience to it.

I think this prayer may naively be like the proverbial ill fated wish to the genie. It would morph into something like 'bring our boys home so our children can see them lay dying and bleeding in our own back yards'.

Because if you think retreat will stop these folks, look at the growth of the calliphate empire in history.

The prayer is not naive, necessarily, just obedient to the command "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Fathjer in heaven..." Since this is related to the military, where soldiers are required to obey every command, it applies to Christian soldiers.

I do not doubt that radical Islam wants to kill us. So do many governments, and our own govt. is willing to send soldiers off to be killed, for the wrong reasons. Sometimes it's just a matter of obedience.

Please explain how killing those that are intent on killing you is wrong, in the eyes of Jesus of course.

I already have; it's the topic in the religion forum about the Just War Theory.

YOU can please explain how killing those that are intent on killing you is righteous, in the eyes of Jesus, of course.

The lions den and the fiery furnace were for people greater than you and I (probably shouldn't speak for you but you can disagree if you like). I think even Jesus lost it once, and for much less than is happening now.

Daniel went into the lion's den or the fiery furnace expecting to die. Jesus went to Calvary knowing he would die. And Jesus didn't lose his temper enough to touch one person in anger. We are all naturally afraid to die, but we should be more afraid to be disobedient to God's commands.

What my opponents are UNABLE and unwilling to show is that they have a divine mandate to hate and kill mortal enemies. They do not.

That may or may not be true. I am not sure what tactics were used to expel the money changers from the temple.

I wouldn't call it a mandate, but an option. It is to each person to be judged individually.

In the end there will be only one judge, and from what I have read we shouldn't second guess that authority. The judge will decide and it will be neither one of us making that call.

He drove them out of the temple with ropes/whips, overturning tables and scattering their monies. Sounds angry to me. Fit takes umbrage at this description. ( I've had this discussion before with him.) But, that's what the NT says. The NT also says to "be angry, but sin not," so I do think Christ was angry.



Thank you.

I thought this was a forum about politics and world events - you know, facts, figures, and yes even opinion.

Now I can see it is a forum for the discussion of fairytales.

Ahhh. You are showing your true colors, Hobo.

You think your little signature at the bottom of your name is fooling anyone?

You are an ultra-left liberal.......against Christianity, against this country, and against everything about America, while posing as a disgruntled patriot.

What a hoot! Get on your horse and ride back to wherever you came from.

The only fairytale I see is your persona you've tried to pull off here on this forum.


And, BTW, in answer to your remark about what the purpose of this forum is, someone in their wisdom created the entire format of this forum including http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?showforum=14. Perhaps, you can't read?

Yes Hobo, your true colors are beginning to show within 45 posts. This is a forum about opinions, and sometimes even facts, or if you wish, fairy tales and legends and myths and hobgoblins. We even have a religion and philosophy subforum, but that's not the only place we can express the connection between world events and what we believe. Even agnostics and atheists can express what they don't believe.