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MrLeft
Iraq is reintegrating with the Arab community, and the Iraqi government is feeling healthy enough to engage its problems on its own, without the presence of a large part of the US military in its terrirtory.

Will this be the impetus for our withdrawl? Are the Iraqis predicting an Obama victory, and setting the stage for his decision to get us out of there? Even if Bush refuses by the hypothetical Dec. 31 deadline - Obama will be in just a month later. The way I see it, those Iraqis, sly as foxes, are going to help us help ourselves.

The end of this disastrous nightmare may be close, folks!

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...=22&sp=true

QUOTE
Iraq says may agree on timetable for U.S. withdrawal

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki raised the prospect on Monday of setting a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops as part of negotiations over a new security agreement with Washington.

It was the first time the U.S.-backed Shi'ite-led government has floated the idea of a timetable for the removal of American forces from Iraq. The Bush administration has always opposed such a move, saying it would give militant groups an advantage.

In a statement, Maliki's office said the prime minister made the comments about the security pact -- which will replace a U.N. mandate for the presence of U.S. troops that expires on December 31 -- to Arab ambassadors in the United Arab Emirates.

"In all cases, the basis for any agreement will be respect for the full sovereignty of Iraq," the statement quoted Maliki as saying.

"The current trend is to reach an agreement on a memorandum of understanding either for the departure of the forces or a memorandum of understanding to put a timetable on their withdrawal."

It said Maliki, who is on an official visit to the United Arab Emirates, was responding to questions from the ambassadors about the security talks with the United States.

U.S. officials in Baghdad had no immediate comment. Last month Maliki appeared to catch Washington off guard when he said talks on the security deal were at a "dead end". Both sides later said progress was being made.

Maliki, dismissed as weak and ineffective for most of his tenure since taking over as prime minister in May 2006, has been increasingly assertive in recent months.

He has launched crackdowns on Shi'ite militias and also al Qaeda militants, with U.S. forces playing a mainly supporting role.

He has also called on Arab states to re-engage with Iraq.

Sunni Arab countries have long been reluctant to extend full legitimacy to the Iraqi government because of the U.S. presence, as well as Baghdad's close ties to non-Arab, Shi'ite Iran.

But Arab ties have begun to improve.

ARAB SUPPORT

The United Arab Emirates has cancelled almost $7 billion of debt owed by Baghdad, officials said on Sunday. And Jordan's King Abdullah is expected to visit Baghdad soon, the first Arab leader to do so since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

The statement from Maliki's office did not specifically refer to the 150,000 American troops in Iraq, but they comprise the vast bulk of foreign forces in the country.

By referring to a memorandum of understanding, Maliki's comments indicate this might be used as a stop-gap measure to govern the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq as opposed to the formal Status of Forces Agreement currently being negotiated.

It was unclear if a memorandum of understanding would need parliamentary approval. Iraqi officials had said they would submit any formal SOFA deal to parliament, where it might be the subject of acrimonious debate.

Maliki has long come under pressure from the movement of powerful Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr to set a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. forces. Sadr's movement quit Maliki's government last year when the prime minister refused to do so.

Luwaa Sumaisem, head of the Sadr bloc's political committee, welcomed Maliki's comments on possibly setting a timetable.

"This is a step in the right direction and we are ready to support him in this objective. We hope Maliki will show seriousness about it," Sumaisem said, without saying if the movement might then consider rejoining the government.

Last week, Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari said if no deal on the security pact is reached by the time the U.N. mandate expires, an extension could be sought or an interim deal made.

Zebari said positions on both sides had softened since talks to provide a legal basis for U.S. troops to stay in Iraq began a few months ago, but sticking points remained, including control of military operations and airspace.

Washington and Baghdad are also negotiating a separate long-term agreement on political, economic and security ties.

After five years in Iraq, the Bush administration had set an end-July target for wrapping up the negotiations. Some Iraqi officials had questioned whether the deadline could be met.

(Additional reporting by Ahmed Rasheed and Tim Cocks; Editing by Samia Nakhoul)
MrRight
Certainly a step in the right direction, and it absolves the US (whoever is President next) of the responsibility of imposing a timetable on the Iraqi government. Given current conditions, this is the best case scenario. And it helps the Iraqi government appear to be much more competent and decisive, and sometimes perception is reality. The less it appears the US government is dictating to the Iraqi government, the more the Iraqi government is likely to appear legitimate, both within Iraq and in the region. That should reduce the incentives for insurgency. At some point it will become necessary for the Iraqi government to actually prove they are competent, but they could never even attempt that as long as everyone perceives they're simply taking orders from the US.
ustrader
The answer!! rolleyes.gif


That is all!!
LooseCannon
Simple question ustrader,
Why do you think these terrorists hate America?

Answer this question honestly and without quotes. popcorn.gif
ustrader
They do not hate America, o perhaps the ignorantly uninformed, fancy the emotion of hate as a motivator, but the leaders of their ambitions, do not hate America at all. It is they, who know hate is but an obstacle to achieving success.

In a world awash with narcissi and indifferent, seeking to sit on the sidelines, devoted to self, most of all, we, America, are merely an obstacle to the opposition’s ambitions.

It has always been someone who stood in another’s way, that, ferments these types of ambitions by a minority, who cannot achieve power on their merits alone, choosing violence as the merit of who they are, yet , in the end, are seldom successful in that effort.

Before the US, it was other powers, the UK or France and or Spain before that. Pre-European Invasion of America, it was groups of Native Americans. Like my ancestors, the Cherokee, who pushed and where pushed, in ebbs and flows, for power and dominance, by their ancient rivals, the Creek.

It is not even about America atoll, it is about American allegiances. It has always been about the balance of power between these ancient feuding brothers of Arabia either on their non-Arabic neighbors, and or upon the Jew, their genetic brethren, for power. We are just in the way. Yet, in being in the way, we prevent a slaughter of biblical proportions.

It is also about the mindset that would see value in murdering these two girls in the name of distortion and evil verse a defense for Human rights, for the weak and the oppressed.


That is all!!
MrRight
QUOTE (LooseCannon @ Jul 8 2008, 09:36 PM) *
Simple question ustrader,
Why do you think these terrorists hate America?

Answer this question honestly and without quotes. popcorn.gif



Here's my answer:

They kill because they're ignorant. They kill because they've been brainwashed. They kill because they hate. They kill because they believe the distorted facts of their religion. They kill because they have no hope for a decent job, wife, home to raise a kid. And an organization like Al Qaeda will feed these hopeless souls and promise them an afterlife of virgins, wonderous smells and tastes...

And it's WRONG!!!! And millions and millions of Muslims around the world know it's wrong and constantly condemn it. The reason no one hears it is because it isn't a great quote in a newspaper and it sure doesn't look as good as some raghead burning the Stars & Stripes on the evening news.

But it's also wrong of this administration to lock people up without a charge, torture and kill people who may have been innocent...RIGHT???

The world has become a lot smaller over the past 40 years. You can travel from one side of the earth to another in less than a day. Everything is instantaneous and with the world now so close to one another...It's time to stop the thinking of US AND THEM...I think a little compassion and an attempt at understanding each cultures, similarities, differences could go a long way.
ustrader
QUOTE (MrRight @ Jul 10 2008, 11:02 AM) *
Here's my answer:

They kill because they're ignorant. They kill because they've been brainwashed. They kill because they hate. They kill because they believe the distorted facts of their religion. They kill because they have no hope for a decent job, wife, home to raise a kid. And an organization like Al Qaeda will feed these hopeless souls and promise them an afterlife of virgins, wonderous smells and tastes...

So you think thes people are brainless souless sheep lead hopelessly by some master minds of mind control? Perhaps a few, but I am in doubt that number is even a countable minority. These people are no different than most I think, they don't want all this killing especially radical Muslim killing other Muslims more than anyone else. I have hope in these people because they are humans just like the rest of us who will one day say enough is enough.

And it's WRONG!!!! And millions and millions of Muslims around the world know it's wrong and constantly condemn it. The reason no one hears it is because it isn't a great quote in a newspaper and it sure doesn't look as good as some raghead burning the Stars & Stripes on the evening news.

Have you ever lived in a 3rd world country for an extended time, of say a year or more. I am getting an idea you have not. The world outside of the clostured rationizing west, is deadly, where power reigns supreme and most people have for centuries been bred to be submissive, the brave lines are often killed off you know. Thjey need some one to help thewm find the courage to be free from these centuries of oppression which all they have ever known.


But it's also wrong of this administration to lock people up without a charge, torture and kill people who may have been innocent...RIGHT???

Perhaps, that is a story, perhaps it is more of HOPES agenda. Nevertheless, it is to be played out in the legal system, not by the mobs uninformed opinions.

It is false and a myth to believe that because 1/ 100,000,000 the of the imprisoned, are proven innnocent, it predicts with absolution, a greater number of the imprisioned are innocent, than are quilty. The courts will decide and I suspect that in the end, very few will be found innocent, very few indeed. Once again the utopian will find hope is not absolute it is far from it but is always a nice goal to shoot at.


The world has become a lot smaller over the past 40 years. You can travel from one side of the earth to another in less than a day. Everything is instantaneous and with the world now so close to one another...It's time to stop the thinking of US AND THEM...I think a little compassion and an attempt at understanding each cultures, similarities, differences could go a long way.



I am for love, and peace and utopia, Cultural understanding, you take off and go to Warzeristan, or Northern Mexico, or East LA, New Orleans, or South Chicago et al, and start the talks to convince them, they but are us. So why can't we just all just get along, it just requires understanding.

Do you even grasp how in congruent in rational and logic your first paragraph of ignorance and hoplessnes is to these latter paragraphs of understanding and compassion? I think you have tiped the cool aid scale over in this one.

However, if you try, I will join the recovery crew that retreives your remains.

How simple it is to say there is NO, WE AND THEM, when in the complexities of your own life, directly and or indirectly, you deal with "we and them" issues, circumstances, and events every day, but are obviously to blinded by hope for utopia, to see it.

There is always, I repeat, Always going to be issues, circumstance and events that differentiate people into we and them camps and components. To think otherwise is like looking down a straw, saying you can see all while doing it. It is a view from the absurds of what intellectualized hope brings to reality.

That is all!!
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