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Nomad

Aug 11 2008, 10:37 PM

"Georgian officials tonight claimed the country had been 'overrun' by Russian troops after a full-scale ground invasion.
Amid reports that Moscow forces had taken the town of Gori - and were marching on the capital Tsblisi - Georgian soldiers appeared to be in full retreat.
Troops were apparently in complete chaos as a full-scale rout pushed them back through the countryside.
Meanwhile, the civilian crisis intensified with thousands of refugees fleeing the seemingly unstoppable advance of the Russian army." Link

Who is next? Will they move on the Balkins and then the balance of Eastern Europe to reclaim their empire? Guaranteed if there is not a firm economic punishment from the civilized members of this world. But that won't happen. The UN will take it up and debate and debate and debate as usual without having any influence on the outcome. A tit on a bull has more value than those corrupt bastards at the UN.
And whom would you prefer as the US president with a malignant Russia on the march.......
McPain or BO??

Partizan

Aug 12 2008, 06:56 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...ion-begins.html
This article contains nothing else but lots of horrible lies. Your media feeds you with nothing else but lies.
The war broke out on 08.08.08 with the full scale Georgian attack of Tshinvalli. They used multiple rocket launchers, heavy artillery and aircraft, which led to more than 2000 casualties among civillian population and Russian peace keepers in the city. Russian counter attack was launched several hours later and is absolutely legal because 80% of the S. Osettian population are Russian citizens and the state incapable to protect its citizens looses the sense to exist, Russia had no choice. The Georgian government has committed a war crime and this will not go unpunished. But Saakashvilli is only an American puppet, the people responsible for this are in Washington, USA trained Georgian military, USA sold them most of their weapons, USA tries to advocate the genocide of the Osettian people. All of you Americans who support your government are either stupid and zombified by your media or cinical.
P.S. http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDBfTX2aik
German news, kinda independent point of view.

ustrader

Aug 12 2008, 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Partizan @ Aug 12 2008, 08:56 PM)

in the city.

Russian counter attack was launched several hours later and is absolutely legal because 80% of the S. Osettian population are Russian citizens and the state incapable to protect its citizens looses the sense to exist, Russia had no choice.

2 Fully prepared and well supplied Divisions with heavy air support was inside Georgia within 6 hrs, who is kidding whom here, this was pre-planned and fully prepared for, by GASPutin obviously. He knew it was coming and some now are convinced incited it by using his separatist.

Look at this map:

So does Russia have a legal and moral right to send its armies into every former Soviet Slave states who have, by Soviet design and purpose, Russians living within their sovereign territory in a similar pretenseof protecting them, if this KGB GASPUTIN does not like something there?

The Soviet authoritarian KGB PUTIN-nites sent, in a planned effort, some 25 million Russians in to its former slave states for exactly this purpose and excuse if need be. On the chance, if need be, the opportunity arose in these former slaves states, for this explicit pretense, to INVADE and PROTECT Russians who ARE NOT Russians at all.

We have Russian in America, all over Europe, and even in Asia. For example, that Euro sewage dump, at Pattaya Thailand, is smelly of them.

So does GASPutin think just because there are Russian somewhere in the world, he can come and protect them, why NO, of course not.

He, instead, like all true play ground bully’s always do, they pick out the weakest to bloody, so that they and their bully Putin-nites can thump their OIL FOR FEARMONGERING INFLUENCE chests.

I for one, thank Gasputin for raising his serpents head. Perhaps now a few more in America and Europe will be a little less anti-American now that they have a always real threat, just ignored, but in self inflicted impotency, looking down their whinny throats.

The Georgian government has committed a war crime and this will not go unpunished. But Saakashvilli is only an American puppet, the people responsible for this are in Washington, USA trained Georgian military, USA sold them most of their weapons, USA tries to advocate the genocide of the Osettian people. All of you Americans who support your government are either stupid and zombified by your media or cinical.

The lack of knowledge of a false spiritualist is only matched by the falsity in the prophet's unawareness of their own ignorance.

P.S. http://www.youtube.com/v/3VTzQr236u8&h...&fs=1"

GASPUTIN has arisen as the KGB serpent of deceit he has always been.

Those who are kind to the cruel, will be cruel to the kind.

B.S. http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDBfTX2aik

German news, kinda independent point of view.

The tuetonic fear mongers are so afraid of GAS PUTIN cutting them off in the winter, they will wanger him even in public, from the weakness of fears inabilities. Sad really, Eurotopia has turned in Euroineptia...

TODAY! we are ALL GEORGIANS!

Partizan

Aug 13 2008, 08:35 AM

1) At about 600 Russian peacekeepers we absolutely legally based in S. Osettia before the conflict. Thats a fact.
2) The events that took place on 08.08.08 were predictable, that's why Russia had 2 fully prepared and well supplied divisions on the border.
3) Are you pretending to be a fool or you really don't understand the difference between ethnicity and citizenship?
4) While you are sitting with your fat American ##### on a cosy chair more than 80000 sleep in tents for refugees and more than 2000 had already been killed. It's obviously that Georgian troops had an order to kill as many civilians as possible, i don't want to waste my time proving this to you, this will be proved in the International Criminal Court.
5) If you really think that Russia didn't have right to use military force after 2000 of her citizens were murdered, you are beyond hope.

ustrader

Aug 13 2008, 01:23 PM

QUOTE (Partizan @ Aug 13 2008, 10:35 PM)

1) At about 600 Russian peacekeepers we absolutely legally based in S. Osettia before the conflict. Thats a fact.

October 5, 2006, Javier Solana, the High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the European Union, ruled out the possibility of replacing the Russian peacekeepers with the EU force.[27] EU South Caucasus envoy Peter Semneby said later that "Russia's actions in the Georgia spy row have damaged its credibility as a neutral peacekeeper in the EU's Black Sea neighbourhood."[28]

2) The events that took place on 08.08.08 were predictable, that's why Russia had 2 fully prepared and well supplied divisions on the border.

o yea, now that Gasputiin ticket! Predicted, yeah, that is for sure, because it was ALL planned to happen, just as it did, all it need was the Georgians to react to Ivan gasPutins proxies provacations and off the Ivan Ho's came a running a tank rolling to chest thumping Ivan ho the bear heroic of bullying the weakest to show how powerful they are .. Yeah, Russian ws really threatened by Georgia. That is why they needed 150 tanks and the initial 5,000 man supply convoy, who just happened to be sitting just inside North Ossetia ready to roll, just 60-Km, on a road that only leads to Tskhnivali from the Ruki Tunnel. How convienent...

3) Are you pretending to be a fool or you really don't understand the difference between ethnicity and citizenship?

A fool are those that belive others are the only ones. that fit that bill, comrade Ivan.

Like I said. there are RUSKI Ivan citizens, ethinical and technically, all over the world, and especially in the former soviet slave states of eastern Europe, so does that give GASPutin and his Ivan Invaders a right taacak another country to go protect them, inside another country, no, it does not.

4) While you are sitting with your fat American ##### on a cosy chair more than 80000 sleep in tents for refugees and more than 2000 had already been killed. It's obviously that Georgian troops had an order to kill as many civilians as possible, i don't want to waste my time proving this to you, this will be proved in the International Criminal Court.

You need a free press that does not kill its journalist and take over the media Ivan-HO.

GEORGIA CAN BE PUTIN'S AFGHANISTAN ( with Cheyna)

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articl...e.html?id=33872

5) If you really think that Russia didn't have right to use military force after 2000 of her citizens were murdered, you are beyond hope.

But Obama says there is hope, you are not voting for him and his hope, Ivan Ho?

Your losing this propganda war Ivan.. now you have even awaken the sleeping Sheep of Eurotopia.

I bet urkaine and others will be in NATO very soon now Ivan. I wonder if Poland is rerady to deal now as well?

That is all!!

SoloNav

Aug 13 2008, 02:19 PM

QUOTE (Partizan @ Aug 13 2008, 08:35 AM)

You poor Russians! You are believing your own press clippings while your leader is lying to you and to the world.

Fox News was onsite in Gori with cameras rolling while Putin was saying that there was a truce and no Russian troops were in Gori.

The Fox News team (while on air to give the story of how "peacefully" this conflict had ended because of the "truce" to which Putin had agreed) received a text message from another film crew to "get out!" which they promptly did. While leaving Gori, they (and the whole world) saw armed vehicles arriving in Gori with 10 soldiers on each, and the film crew filmed them. While Russia was saying that the citizens of Gori were burning their own houses, this was not observed by the film crew, nor the people viewing it on worldwide TV.

Your leader is a liar.

He set Georgia up to respond, and then attacked them. Just as he attacked and stomped on Chechnya. McCain was right! He labeled Putin as a KGB-type guy, just waiting his opportunity to return to world domination.

You idiots are helping him. Hail Putin (Hitler in disguise)! And, you are his dupes like the Germans were to Hitler.

Fools.

Partizan

Aug 14 2008, 04:56 AM

Arguing with you is a waste of time. Can we prove each one anything. Politics is a very cynical thing, mass media is also. You are trying to defend a murdering ######? That's a problem of your own morality. The only advice i can give you is to go to Georgia when the war is over and see their "democracy" with your own eyes, then go to Tshinval (the city is completely razed to the ground) and see what Fox didn't show you.
Thank you for your frankness, your leaders have never officially called Russia a world threat.
All illusions are dispelled long ago, there can't be any friendship between countries, if Europe partially supports us only because they are dependent on our gas, our task is to increase this dependence. The propaganda war is lost of course, but not as completely as all previous times, a lot of Europeans have opinion drastically different from your's.

The future belongs to us. Thank you all for attention. CIAO!

SoloNav

Aug 14 2008, 07:29 AM

QUOTE (Partizan @ Aug 14 2008, 04:56 AM)

Your post is B.S. Our leaders have always called Russia a world threat. I can see you don't listen, read U.S. news.

I hardly think the future belongs to you (Russia?). You are split into factions, with a fair-to-middling armed force and a lying leader longing for world domination. So what's new with Russia? Nothing.
I can remember another Russian saying just what you said while beating his shoe on his podium at the U.N.

You Russian do not lack in chuzpah. That's about all you have left. You'd better make friends with us before we are all eaten up by the Muslims.

SoloNav

Aug 14 2008, 02:09 PM

Another Russian lie: Putin says there is a cease fire,but Fox has shown newsclips today that not only is there NOT a cease fire, Russian armored cars have rolled right into the courtyard of government officials in Gobi and ran off the officials, police, etc. And, have began firing upon journalists. Saw them running with gunfire behind them myself.

Hmmmm. Wonder why the Russians are firing upon journalists???????????

Don't want any competition upon the coverage of the war???? To show up Putin's lies to the world? Yuh think?

I feel sorry for his people. They only have what he wants them to see and believe. They're already prisoners.

ustrader

Aug 14 2008, 03:30 PM

QUOTE (Partizan @ Aug 14 2008, 07:56 PM)

O yeah, that is a fact Ivan Ho, hmm? I wonder why Ivan, after months of saying No, but meaning we want more. the Poles overnight MADE the missile defense deal overnight. Any idea Ivan, perhap GASPUTIN is not so smart after all..

I wonder if next we hear of ukraine entry into NATO and perhaps an increase in activity againt in that other bear crushed republic that wants the same free choice Russia claims the Sout Ossestians have a right to, Cheyna. Perhaps now it will get very hot again...

THE RUSSIAN-GEORGIAN WAR WAS PREPLANNED IN MOSCOW
http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373314

WILL UKRAINE's entry into NATO be not long in coming, perhaps GasPutin gased himselve in over estiumating petro power for get my way power.

US, Poland agree to missile defense deal
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_...missile_defense

Kaczynski in Tbilisi: ‘We are here to take up the fight”
http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/foreign-affairs/?id=89098

August 14, 2008

George Bush squares up to Vladimir Putin over Georgia

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4524831.ece

AFP News Briefs List

Airlift of Georgian troops from Iraq near complete: Pentagon
http://www.france24.com/en/20080811-airlif...mplete-pentagon

US won't budge on Georgia: Bush
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iTb3Ak...7Ay8kGMRZqdaCvg

Russia 'sabotaging military bases'
http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jJ...PzVjS1P1LSDwa4Q

Fury over 'Russian invasion'

http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaustralia/...vasion39_554745

Georgia conflict could set back Russia's US relations 'for years'US defence secretary warns Moscow: stop 'punishing' Georgia for western integration or risk damage to Washington relations
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/14/georgia.russia7

Russia 'destroying' towns before withdrawal
http://news.smh.com.au/world/georgia-says-...80814-3voi.html

At press time Tuesday, Russia had just announced a halt to its military incursion into Georgia. But the denouement was still far from clear — both in terms of immediate damage and lives lost, and the larger, long-term impact on geopolitical affairs. As the drama in the Caucasus continues to play out, however, several points are worth noting.

From this part of the world, one of the most interesting is the references to Czech history that the war between Georgia and Russia evoked. Czech Foreign Affairs Minister Karel Schwarzenberg saw a replay of the 1968 invasion of Prague by Soviet tanks, on vivid display in a number of exhibitions in this anniversary year. And even before the current fighting erupted, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was comparing his country to Czechoslovakia in 1938, when the Western powers essentially ceded the country to Hitler.

http://www.praguepost.com/articles/2008/08...realpolitik.php

Georgia: Europe wins a gold medal for defeatism
Sarkozy's ‘peace in our time' deal is a reminder of what could happen if the EU wins more clout
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle4534358.ece

Putin's Georgia gambit revives politics Soviet-style

The invasion of Georgia marks only the latest in a series of escalating Russian provocations. In the past, when I would slip up and call them "Soviets", I'd always correct myself. These days, I no longer see the point. Our cunning Cold War enemies, repackaged now as Russian nationalists, are back. The ideology has changed, but the methodology is all too familar.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...viet-style.aspx

The division breaks along familiar lines. Several "new" member states in the European Union, as well as Britain, are arguing for a tough stance against Moscow (though realistically and wisely, no one wants a military one). "Old" influential members such as Germany and France express restraint.

The reasons for the divide are not easily brushed aside. The EU's eastern critics – Baltic newbies (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) and Poland – sit within easy reach of the bear claw, and have the Soviet empire fresh in their minds.

On Tuesday, their presidents and Ukraine's joined Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili at a rally in Tblisi. They have slammed French President Nicolas Sarkozy's cease-fire deal with Russia and Georgia for allowing further Russian aggression, and question the EU's "strategic partnership" with Russia, which is up for renewal.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0815/p08s01-comv.html

Poland focuses Europe on Georgia

14.08.2008

Poland has made Europe more focused on the situation in Georgia and the whole Caucasian region, says Jacek Saryusz-Wolski, a liberal Polish MEP and expert on international affairs.

http://www.polskieradio.pl/zagranica/news/...on_Georgia.html

We mistake the mood in Russia at our peril

Wednesday, 13 August 2008

Civilisation is right to be appalled by the brutish excess of the Russian attack on Georgia. It was clearly well-planned in advance; a cunning trap laid not just for a rash Saakashvili, but for George W Bush in his expiring presidency. America's share of the blame goes back, however, to the Clinton administration – and his ill-named Secretary of State, Mrs Albright.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/comme...ril-892819.html

Czech press survey
"Life in the Shadow of an Empire

We [Czechs] should support the Georgians more resolutely than by a mere deputy PM's newspaper article," he suggests.
http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/news/index_view.php?id=327833

Russians failing to withdraw: Georgians

Explosions rocked the strategic town of Gori, posing a fresh threat to the fragile ceasefire between Russia and Georgia.
http://news.theage.com.au/world/russians-f...80814-3v5l.html

That is all

SoloNav

Aug 15 2008, 08:48 AM

QUOTE (SoloNav @ Aug 14 2008, 03:09 PM)

OK. I was wrong.

Fox clarified that it was Georgian snipers that were firing at journalists. Apparently, the criminal element in the country has taken advantage of robbing, burning, and killing anyone with anything of value.

LooseCannon

Aug 15 2008, 12:43 PM

[/quote]

SoloNav

Aug 15 2008, 01:22 PM

QUOTE (LooseCannon @ Aug 15 2008, 12:43 PM)

Yea, look at the upcoming Democrat election.

Sorry, did you miss the whole WOT? Better stay off those games, LC. It interferes with one's ability to think clearly.

Razin

Aug 15 2008, 04:15 PM

wow ! SoloNav amazes me even more !

apparently he lacks brains SO MUCH that he simply COPIES his SAME post and places it in different threads !

as usually - only a bunch of cheerleaders remains here.
no wonder nobody else remains here....

RUSSIA pre-planned it, huh? not US / NATO ?

the simple reply to all Russia-bashing cheerleaders is :
"LOOK WHO IS TALKING !"

educate yourself:

An inevitable clash
http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH15Ag01.html

QUOTE

The Russian invasion of the South Ossetian enclave in Georgia should call into question a basic component of United States foreign policy - the integration of Eastern Europe and former Soviet republics into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).... And it is as ill thought out as any foreign policy the US has pursued in decades.
Moscow's response signals several positions. Russia will intervene in foreign countries to protect ethnic Russians living there. {it certainly has more right to do so than US in bombing Yugoslavia, invading Iraq, Afgan under excuse of "protecting National Security interest" ! and Russia did nothing different, if it comes to it !}

DISPATCHES FROM AMERICA
Is perpetual war our future?
http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JH16Ak02.html

QUOTE

In sum, an officer corps bloodied in Iraq and Afghanistan has seen the future and it points to many more Iraqs and Afghanistans. Whereas the architects of full spectrum dominance had expected the unprecedented lethality, range, accuracy, and responsiveness of high-tech striking power to perpetuate military dominion, the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan know better. They remain committed to global dominance while believing that its pursuit will require not only advanced weaponry but also the ability to put boots on the ground and keep them there. This, in turn, implies a plentiful supply of soldiers and loads of patience on the home front....

So the first lesson to be taken away from the Bush administration's two military adventures is simply this: War remains today what it has always been - elusive, untamed, costly, difficult to control, fraught with surprise, and sure to give rise to unexpected consequences. Only the truly demented will imagine otherwise.

The second lesson of Iraq and Afghanistan derives from the first. As has been the case throughout history, the utility of armed force remains finite. Even in the information age, to the extent that force "works", it does so with respect to a limited range of contingencies.

third lesson. ... our actual experience with preventive war suggests that, even setting moral considerations aside, to launch a war today to eliminate a danger that might pose a threat at some future date is just plain stupid. It doesn't work.

fourth lesson, relating to the formulation of strategy... Since the end of the Cold War, the tendency among civilians - with Bush a prime example - has been to confuse strategy with ideology.

The four lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan boil down to this: Events have exposed as illusory American pretensions to having mastered war.

America doesn't need a bigger army. It needs a smaller - that is, more modest - foreign policy , one that assigns soldiers missions that are consistent with their capabilities. Modesty implies giving up on the illusions of grandeur to which the end of the Cold War and then 9/11 gave rise. It also means reining in the imperial presidents who expect the army to make good on those illusions. When it comes to supporting the troops, here lies the essence of a citizen's obligation.

this is speaking intelligent and sober person, and AMERICAN himself -
not one of the bunch of morons who are gleefully bashing Russia here !

The bear is back
http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH16Ag01.html

QUOTE

This current conflict was born out of a crisis that has been simmering since the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's (NATO's) action in the former Yugoslavia and has most certainly come to boil since February 2008, when the breakaway province of Kosovo achieved a degree of doubtful international acceptance as an independent state, but only, it is suggested by many observers, after considerable pressure was exerted on its allies by the United States.

There is little or no difference between Russia's actions to ensure the right of self-determination of the South Ossetians and the US/NATO support for the Kosovans. ..

The lead-up to the military confrontation was however entirely predictable and indeed was flagged quite openly to all who wished to take notice. ... It is significant that the United States was fully aware of the risk of conflict. ...

The end of the post-Cold War era
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH13Ag02.html

QUOTE

The killing of thousands of people in the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia will turn out to be a landmark moment in post-Soviet Russia's relations with the West. Friday's Georgian attack on South Ossetia was intended as a provocation. The attack killed 13 Russian soldiers and injured 150 and took over 2,000 civilian lives, mostly Russian citizens. The South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali has been all but razed. Over 30,000 refugees have crossed the Russian border...

Saakashvili let loose the dogs of war within a month of Rice's visit to Tbilisi. And he acted with immaculate timing - when Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was on summer vacation and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin had left Moscow to attend the opening ceremony of the Olympics. On balance, it is inconceivable Washington was in the dark about how Saakashvili's mind was working.
{so, WHO was planning WHAT, huh ?}

at the outbreak of violence, Russia had tried to have the United Nations Security Council issue a statement calling on Georgia and South Ossetia to immediately lay down weapons. However, Washington was disinterested. As the Russian ambassador to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, put it, there was an "absence of political will" within the Security Council. {WHY didn't they, huh? to me there is only 1 conclusion: they WANTED this outcome, of Russia's military strike, and then to start their hysterical Russia-bashing! why? because : }

In geopolitical terms a flashpoint in the Caucasus at this juncture suits Washington. A furious propaganda barrage against Russia has begun. It is already at a high pitch. US statements have virtually overlooked the Georgian onslaught on South Ossetia and the attack on Russian peacemakers. The focus is on the Russian response to the Georgian provocation. An attempt has begun to portray Russia as the aggressor. Washington is carefully cultivating an opinion in Western capitals that Moscow is "bullying" Tbilisi. This propaganda is bound to strengthen Washington's case for inducting Georgia into NATO.

Georgia's NATO membership ensures that the arc of encirclement of Russia by the US is strengthened.... From Washington's perspective, there is nothing like getting Russia bogged down in the Caucasus if it saps Russia's capacity to play an effective role on the world stage.
Moscow is fundamentally averse to any confrontation with the West. Its foreign policy gives top priority to Russia's integration with Europe. But Washington's best hope is that with some degree of "bear-baiting", at some point Moscow will lose patience and hit out, even if that might affect Russia's image in Europe.

In sum, it belies logic that Saakashvili acted impulsively...

Russia marks its red lines
http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH13Ag05.html

QUOTE

What is playing out in the Caucasus is being reported in the United States media in an alarmingly misleading light, making Moscow appear the lone aggressor after it sent troops into the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia following a Georgian offensive on that territory...

Washington has steadily converted NATO into what can only be called the military vehicle of an American global imperial rule... Russia threatens Georgia, but Georgia threatens Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Russia looks like a crocodile to Georgia, but Georgia looks to Russia like the cat's paw of the West....

the attack on South Ossetia is the first battle in a new proxy warfare between Anglo-American-Israeli led interests and Russia.... The trigger for such a war is not Georgia's right to annex South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Rather, it is US insistence on pushing NATO and its missile defense right up to Russia's door.

Putin for US president - more than ever
http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH13Ag01.html

QUOTE

Thanks to Putin, the world has become a much safer place. By intervening in Georgia, Russia has demonstrated that the great powers of the world have nothing to fight about. Russia has wiped the floor with a putative US ally, and apart from a bad case of cream pie on the face, America has lost nothing. The United States and the European community will do nothing to help Georgia, and nothing of substance to penalize the Russian Federation.

Contrary to the hyperventilation of policy analysts on American news shows, the West has no vital interests in Georgia. It would be convenient from Washington's vantage point for oil to flow from the Caspian Sea via Georgia to the Black Sea, to be sure, but nothing that occurs in Georgia will have a measurable impact on American energy security. It is humiliating for the US to watch the Russians thrash a prospective ally, but not harmful, for Georgia never should have been an ally in the first place...

Washington looks all the sillier for its failure to anticipate a Russian action that Moscow signaled months in advance. After the US and its main European allies recognized the independence of Kosovo from Serbia in February 2008, Russia warned that this action set a precedent for other prospective secessions, notably South Ossetia.

why shouldn't the 100,000 Ossetians living in Georgia break away and form their own state as well? Most of them have acquired Russian passports and want nothing to do with the Georgians. The Ossetians have spoken their variant of Persian for more than a millennium and had their own kingdom during the Middle Ages.

If the West is going to put itself at risk for 3.8 million ethnic Georgians, roughly the population of Los Angeles, or 5.4 million Tibetans, or 2 million Albanian Muslims in Kosovo, why shouldn't Russia take risks for the South Ossetians, not to mention the 100,000 Abkhaz speakers in Georgia's secessionist Black Sea province?

If it had not been for America's insistence on installing a gang of trigger-happy pimps and drug-pushers in Kosovo, Russia might have responded less ferociously to the flea bites on its southern border. Make no mistake: the American-sponsored Kosovo regime is the dirtiest anywhere in postwar history. Writing in the Spiegel magazine website last April 24 , Walter Mayr described Kosovo as "a country ruled by corruption and organized crime".

If America wants to recover from its humiliation in the Caucasus, it might, for example, conduct an air raid against Iran's nuclear facilities, and justify it with the same sort of reasoning that Russia invoked in Georgia. Contrary to surface impressions, Moscow wouldn't mind a bit.

Razin

Aug 15 2008, 04:34 PM

response to UStrader in the same style:

TODAY WE ARE ALL LAKOTA !

or any of other Indian nations slaughtered en masse and still suppressed !
if bunch of Albanian mafia so eagerly was given support to become independent - then WHY NOT allow REAL american natives to get their own FREEDOM, huh ?

Republic of Lakotah
http://www.republicoflakotah.com/

http://www.republicoflakotah.com/map.html

I think it is about the time the world community exposed US hypocrisy of intervention in others' business,
while back home they shamelessly DISCRIMINATE against its own people !

so, I hope soon many countries will show their support and say the same:

TODAY WE ARE ALL LAKOTA !

that is all !

Razin

Aug 15 2008, 05:25 PM

QUOTE (Partizan @ Aug 14 2008, 12:56 PM)

Arguing with you is a waste of time. ....

The only advice i can give you is to go to Georgia when the war is over and see their "democracy" with your own eyes, then go to Tshinval (the city is completely razed to the ground) and see what Fox didn't show you.

man ! don't waste your time on zombies brainwashed by FoxNews !

it is below the dignity level for reasonable and sane people to base their arguments on FoxNews -
I can't even believe that someone is stupid enough even admit it so openly!

West KNEW that Saakashvili is just another dictator when they made him a President and all these years since !
but, as usually, the logic is simple: "he might be an a$$hole, but he is OUR a$$hole "

here, read what BRITISH (not russian and surely not FoxNews) newspaper was writing even 4 years ago, merely few months after Saakashvili came to power (here I quote only selected paragraphs):

Georgia on their mind
John Laughland in Batumi
The Guardian,
Thursday April 1 2004
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/apr/01/georgia.oil

QUOTE

In 1918, when Lord Balfour was foreign secretary, he said: "The only thing which interests me in the Caucasus is the railway line which delivers oil from Baku to Batumi. The natives can cut each other to pieces for all I care." Little has changed in world geopolitics since the end of the first world war...

In an interview with a Dutch magazine, Sandra Roelofs, the Dutch wife of the new Georgian president and hence the new first lady of Georgia, explained that her husband aspires to follow in the long tradition of strong Georgian leaders "like Stalin and Beria". Saakashvili started his march on Tbilisi last November with a rally in front of the statue of Stalin in his birthplace, Gori. ... {well, it is logical - Stalin after all was Georgian too so, Sakashvili is naturally inspired by his great countryman !

}

In Sunday's vote - for which final results are mysteriously still unavailable - the government appears to have won nearly every seat. Georgia is now effectively a one-party state, and Saakashvili has even adopted his party flag as the national flag.

New world order enthusiasts have praised the nightly displays on Georgian television of people being arrested and bundled off to prison in handcuffs. The politics of envy and fear combine in an echo of 1930s Moscow, as Saakashvili's anti-corruption campaign, egged on by the west, allows the biggest gangsters in this gangster state to eliminate their rivals. {hahahaha ! "Democracy, huh ? what a big joke !"

}

History is repeating itself: ... Shevardnadze ... ran as a brutal dictator from 1992 to 2003. He was as assiduously lauded by the west then as his protege and successor is now.

And as for the operetta "revolution" staged against Shevardnadze's regime last November, it has allowed a changing of the guard within an unchanged power structure.

That November's "revolution of roses" was stage-managed by the Americans has been admitted even by the new president himself, who has said that his coup could not have succeeded without US help. Abashidze also confirmed it on Saturday in Batumi, when he said that his discussions with the American ambassador to Georgia, Richard Miles, had convinced him that nothing can happen in the country without a green light from Washington. Georgia, Russia's backyard, and the country used as a base by the Chechens, is now as thoroughly controlled by the US as Panama - and for much the same reasons. As in Central America, economic devastation has been the handmaiden of political control, reducing what was previously the richest Soviet republic to a miserable, pre-industrial subsistence.

As we know from Tony Blair's visit to Libya, the west is happy to make alliances with dictatorships if strategic interests dictate. Georgia certainly qualifies on that score. And events in the Caucasus are connected to events in Iraq. Because of the intensity of Iraqi resistance to US and British occupation, oil is not flowing from there as freely as had been hoped. Hence the imperative quickly to secure other sources of cheap fuel for America's gas-guzzlers. In Libya as in Georgia, western support for dictators, in the name of strategy, may be the oldest trick in the book. But it is also the most short-sighted.

· John Laughland is a trustee of the British Helsinki Human Rights Group
bhhrg.org

and now cheerleader hail Saakashvili as HERO and champion of "Democracy"

while his own wife witnessed that he rather prefer to be another Stalin.
and may be the slaughter of Ossetians in Tskhinvali was his long cherished dream?
while actually Stalin has never suppressed Ossetians, although deported Chechens and many others -
perhaps because his own father was Ossetian and that made him half Ossetian himself ?

and interestingly, Stalin's statue still there in Gori, his birthplace
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gori,_Georgia

as well as Stalin's Museum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin_Museum,_Gori

I bet all the cheerleaders here don't even know that !

SoloNav

Aug 15 2008, 05:46 PM

QUOTE (Razin @ Aug 15 2008, 05:15 PM)

wow ! SoloNav amazes me even more !

apparently he lacks brains SO MUCH that he simply COPIES his SAME post and places it in different threads !

Lacks he brains so much, Razin isn't even aware that I'm not a "he."

Thus displays the depth of knowledge of this raisin.

Can't you do better?

SoloNav

Aug 15 2008, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (SoloNav @ Aug 15 2008, 06:46 PM)

Lacks he brains so much, Razin isn't even aware that I'm not a "he."

Thus displays the depth of knowledge of this raisin.

Can't you do better?

Hello? Raisin, where did you go?

No answer?

Hint: Look at my avatar...........that's a female eye. Look at my profile.

BTW, yes I'm aware that Stalin was born in Georgia. Your point? You were born in the U.S. or at least North America? That's not our problem, now is it?

ustrader

Aug 16 2008, 12:19 AM

GASPUTIN has arisen as the KGB serpent of deceit he has always been.

I see comrade Razin-Putin has arisen from his frightened Euro trash heap, to lay another load of Euro-udopia crap-ola on himself.

QUOTE

“Russia will intervene in foreign countries to protect ethnic Russians living there.”

Does this mean anywhere any time? I think not Russia has clearly showed it can push a little country around, butcher people like the cheyanians who want to free of Russia whil usubf excuse that other ethinic Russians living in separate sovereign states deserve to be repratitated back into the GTR ( GasPutin Thug Republic.) But it has neither courage nor the will to push those that can push very hard and maybe even harder back..GasPutin is deceitful and is a KGB bully, but he is no fool.

Razin-Putin my Crap-ola quoting comrade, you left out, on purpose, the most insightful and important part of the most insightful rational in this piece from Mr. Downing, a rather unaccomplished author, who was a Vietnam War veteran, who hold a slightly negatively slanted view of war, and American wars in particular. As does the Asian Times, a media format, not exactly one see in Op-Ed’s has either a pro- western nor American rag to begin with.

http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH15Ag01.html

QUOTE

”Never the less as is usual for the uniformed leftist like Razin-Putin, who occasionally come a slumming from their usual slums, he left out probably the most telling and insightful commentary made by Mr. Drowning in his article.

It's unclear if the people of Western Europe, who are less enamored by war than Americans are, and who look at least somewhat more thoughtfully on world affairs, are asking themselves the same question.

It is more probable, however, that events in Georgia will lead to more rapid military modernization in new NATO members and a few more countries applying for membership (tuition-free, of course). This in turn will intensify Russian security concerns and authoritarian trends - dynamics that were likely foreseen by Russia. A new cold war has begun.”

As has already be proven Gas Putins Miscalculation instead of inciting FEAR from Petro dependent Russian Thug threats, has invited a Polish Push back and I suspect now, form the Soviet Thugs former slaves states more incentive and reasons to Join in military and economic unity with the west than ever has they know how just how mean and murderous these Putin KGB thugs are.

Like Most of the petro thugs who threaten everyone all the time, they underestimate JUST HOW EQUALLY if not more dependent they are on Petro Dollars than the even the dependent west.

GasPutin great miscalculation here, just, like $140 a barrel Oil, gives the very technolically advance west just another incentive to unify in both defense against their and theitr friends the Iranians bullying and petro threats, to advance even quicker new energy source that make the west independent of such threatening and bullying societies has now exists in Russia and Iran.

Like, Saddam, the 12th Iman Iranian thugs, and now, thug Russia miscalculates their own needy reliance on petro dollar. Threatening to destroy other powerful nations economies, has proven historically to unit them against the threat not deter them. While, thug logic seems to dreive that by threatening to deprive others of essentials to their existence is more fearful to tjhose they threaten, they ignore as others in the past have, that such a thing also cripples themselves who entire economies are vastly dependent on petro dollars. In this not so 21st century mentality arises a great flaw in logic, one is that threats real and or perceived run, ever more, the risk to acted on, Also, that using threaten and intimidate instead of free commerce and peace to make this world a better place, will not be acceptable to many.

GasPutin has not made Russia more powerful, nor remotely safer, he has miscalculated and done exactly the opposite, as Mr. Drowning points out, by implication in his last quoted above paragraph.

He Pushed Poland past an impass has inflamed all of eastern Europe and will see more press to include more former states seeking alliance against GasPutin;s KGB thuggery than ever and now even quicker. Even the wimpy Germans are see more a Russians Threat, than a peace coexisting economic partnership now by GasPutin’s miscalculation.

Razin-Putin’s record of being correct:

Mar 2 2008, 12:26 PM OOPS!!
http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?act=findp...&pid=103475

A long road from Kosovo to Kurdistan

(http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JB29Ak02.html)

http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?act=findp...&pid=103474

Mar 2 2008, 10:20 AM

http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?act=findp...&pid=103473

http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?s=&sh...st&p=103458

WHY not Recognize Lakota Republic?, for the sake of FREEDOM !

http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?s=&sh...st&p=103459

Kosovo "independence", consequences it will have for the rest of the world?

http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?s=&sh...st&p=103531

'War on Terror' is Bogus

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

George Galloway - Hizbollah Is Not A Terrorist Organization

Sep 11 2006
Thousands of Israelis demand independent Lebanon probe

More than 20,000 Israelis demonstrated in Tel Aviv, demanding that the government back a full-scale independent inquiry into the Lebanon war and urging Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to resign.

Sep 11 2006
5 years after 9/11, many angry at U.S

Ché Guevara with Oil

Fundamentalists Rise Again in Afghanistan
By Babak Khalatbari in Kabul
September 8, 2006
Posted on: Sep 7 2006, 02:31 AM

McCain faults administration on Iraq

http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?s=&sh...ost&p=95862

Почему будете каждо тупоумное но вы Razin?

Что все

Razin

Aug 26 2008, 11:28 AM

QUOTE (SoloNav @ Aug 16 2008, 01:30 AM)

Hello? Raisin, where did you go? No answer?

you miss miss me already so much or what?
I didn't go anywhere - I am at home, busy doing my work. where else I'd be.

it's just too boring to attend this Forum, which increasingly becomes a place of brainwashed cheerleader-idiots.
(as you can see - you have joined here 7 months after me, yet I still have only shy 400+ posts while you - over 2100)

there are much more interesting things to do than trying to prove to someone that I am not a camel. because I am NOT a camel - why I have to prove it? yet here somehow most of time this is what I am forced to do !
because people like UStrader for example - they only stick labels. and people like you - openly insult others.

I mean - how could you insult the WHOLE NATION, brand all the people in the country like that?
this is indecent and unfair, even talking in terms of basic human ethics.
not to speak about - fair discussion, where you can't use dirty tricks like "attack on person" or generalizations.
as well - which is a dirty trick in Demagogy !

QUOTE

Demonization
Demonization — identifying others as a mortal threat. Often this involves scapegoating — blaming others for one's own problems. This is often advanced by using vague terms to identify the opposition group and then stereotyping that group. This allows the demagogue to exaggerate this group's influence and ascribe any trait to them by identifying that trait in any individual in the group. This method can be aided by constructing a false dilemma that portrays opposition groups as having a value system that is the polar opposite of one's own, as opposed to simply having different priorities. This method was incorporated by the Nazi regime to gain the general support of the public when it began to initiate its anti-Semitic policies.

(from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogy)

and that's exactly what you do. although I am not surprised at all - after you said that you base your judgments on what you hear from FoxNews. I mean - I am still like OMG and LMAO !

I bet you must LOVE and adore Bill O'Reilly and his F*cktor huh ?

COME ON, admit it !

that brilliant unmatched MASTER OF BIAS and false patriotism, and crony of Murdoch and corporate MSM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Bill_O%27Reilly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_O%27Reil...m.2C_and_parody

QUOTE

95 percent of the time he is either spinning, or lying, or doing one sided biased interviews, and attacks on liberals.

The main problems with O'Reilly are the lies he tells, the right-wing spin he uses, and the unfairness of his show. He is a journalist, he is part of the free press, the press of the people, by the people, and for the people. A journalist is supposed to be truthful and objective and be fair to both sides of the issues. O'Reilly is none of those, he lies about having a no spin zone, he lies about not being a conservative, he lies about being an independent, and he lies about being fair and balanced.

O'Reilly likes to point out how he is a news analyst, and how he does news analysis, I fully understand that. It still does not give him the right to lie to the american people, by claiming he is a fair and balanced independent journalist with a no-spin zone, who denies being a conservative, while spinning his 99% right-wing views.

The Society of Professional Journalists Have a web site with the "code of ethics" for all journalists. Visit their web site below, and read the "code of ethics" for journalists, then ask yourself how many ethics violations O'Reilly has on a daily basis.
[email="http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp"]The Society of Professional Journalists (Code of Ethics)[/email]

... O'Reilly tells lies to the american people, under the cover of claiming to be a fair and balanced independent journalist in a no spin zone. he spins almost everything to the right, almost all his attacks are against democrats, and almost all his interviews are unfair to the democrat or the non-conservative.

( http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/oreillyfoxfaq.htm )

no wonder that O'Reilly refused to debate with Nas !
and no wonder that FoxNews refused to host such debate.

QUOTE

His sh1t is all about getting ratings or whatever. I wouldn't honor anything Bill O'Reilly has to say.
It just shows you what bloodsuckers do: They abuse something like the Virginia Tech [tragedy] for show ratings. You can't talk to a person like that.

(from: Nas )

well, by that they have only exposed themselves more,
and confirmed all those reasons why more and more people in US are becoming DISILLUSIONED.

here is how they feel about O'Reilly adn FoxNews :

Sly Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Uqk3fxFEs

F--- Fox News
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/20080825_f_fox_news/
(read comments there too - you might be enlightened about FoxNews ! )

well, THAT's exactly what you do: you follow blindly the hysterical mass propaganda of Western CORPORATE media
(here are clues for you, use them as keywords to search Google:
Murdochcracy, MSM, CFR

) which has made zombies of you and your likes !

and yet you blame someone else?
as I recall there is english proverb:
"when you point finger at someone - 3 other fingers point back to yourself !".
SoloNave, have you ever noticed it?

try, it might be a revelation !

and also, do your homework before you try to make any such big conclusions.
otherwise it is much wiser just to shut up and be quite !

and listen to what some adult people might have to say.

QUOTE

Hint: Look at my avatar...........that's a female eye. Look at my profile.
Lacks he brains so much, Razin isn't even aware that I'm not a "he."
Thus displays the depth of knowledge of this raisin. Can't you do better?

do better WHAT ? guessing your gender by your avatar? nope. sorry - why should I even try?
and then, what guessing your gender has to do with KNOWLEDGE, huh ?

but it's OK, don't feel discriminated, or perhaps hurt in your possibly feminist feelings - here I address your confessed identity:

so -- OOPS ! my bad !

alright then, you are not "he" - you are "hee" (it sounds the same anyway)
Hint: that's Thai slang word ! you don't speak Thai? not even Russian? well - there you go ! YOUR depth of knowledge

(BTW - I do speak Thai. and also English as you can see. and few other languages - although I am Russian, and by your definition automatically fall into category of IDIOTS. and what else was there - ah, yeah, FOOLS who follow liar leader, which implies that I am also brainwashed ZOMBIE as well. etc. etc. )

but you must forgive me for that - I participate in too many other forums and most of time those who has avatars with sexy females are actually men. and even more often avatar doesn't have anything to do with gender at all.

and another thing - when I read post by someone who is bluntly and openly directly INSULTING me, reading their profile is the last thing which comes to my mind - you know what I mean? the most natural reaction, I bet of majority of humans, is - to respond to that insult. especially if it is extremely unfair and undeserved.

QUOTE

You were born in the U.S. or at least North America? That's not our problem, now is it?

nope, dear lady. is that a sin ?
or is it sort of eligibility for being allowed to open my mouth and say something in here ?

oh, wait. perhaps you mean like - pure race or something? or cast or ... mental capacity ?
it reminds me when I was in India trying to get inside some temple - they have demanded that I produce a document (passport of ID) which proves that I am a Hindu BY BIRTH.

so, your question puzzles me no less than their demand: I mean like, say, even if I would come and live there in US (I am considering, you know !

) - I am still won't be good enough? ONLY if I get RE-BORN there, on sacred American soil - then I'll deserve a right to talk to you, oh self-righteous and BRILLIANTLY GENIUS female who can't be ever possibly wrong because ....

SHE WATCHES FoxNews

uahahahahahahahahahahahaha

(yeah, I've already confessed my sin of not being able to guess your gender by your avatar and here again I stress my DEEPEST REGRET ! : hey, BTW - is that really YOUR eye? I mean - unbelievable, wow ! )

ustrader

Aug 26 2008, 04:05 PM

QUOTE (Razin @ Aug 27 2008, 01:28 AM)

SHE WATCHES FoxNews

The problem with left brained genius,especcially school children like this one, it never let's the facts get into its way of proving it is ingnorantly uninformed in self assumed genius.

Now for the facts, your genius-less-ness.

That is all

Razin

Aug 26 2008, 04:51 PM

QUOTE (ustrader @ Aug 16 2008, 07:19 AM)

I see comrade Razin-Putin has arisen from his frightened Euro trash heap,
to lay another load of Euro-udopia crap-ola on himself.
.....
Почему будете каждо тупоумное но вы Razin?
Что все

well, UStrader - Funk you very much too !

oh, and BTW - use some other computer program to translate from Engl. to Russian, unless you wanna make a fool of yourself again and again !

because whatever you tried to say by that sentence in Russian quoted above - it is gibberish !

I mean, man - what are you trying to prove and to whom, huh ?
that you can also be so clever and post a few words in foreign language?
alright - I give you a point for that ! but hey - look how many words in froeign for me language I have posted !

or perhaps you are trying sort of test me - whether I'm actually a Russian or not?
then try in some other way. even if suppose that you have a means to check me.
which you don't, because you DO NOT speak/ read/ write Russian.
while I do speak/ read/ write English. so, I am at much greater advantage, mate !

and then - as I recall, this Forum only allows to use English anyway.
(although I don't remember if it is a rule like on Thaivisa, the "father-forum")
therefore - WHAT's YOUR WHOLE POINT in using this silly line in Russian?

man, I can as well write to you something in Thai or Bangla or Hindi, something truly offensive (as apparently your line is such a lame attempt at insult) and obscene and you won't even be able to TRANSLATE it with your pathetic translator program, because these languages use hieroglyphs (logographs), not alphabetic letters (as in Cyrillic, Latinic or Greek)

oh, and about your gleeful usage of "Gas-putin" - man, ain't you bored already?
I tell you - I don't give you a ###### about Putin.
although I DO know for a fact that he IS respected in many countries around the world
at least for STANDING UP to US / NATO .

AND

your own AMERICAN "Time" magazine has named him a MAN OF THE YEAR.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/personoftheyear/

Why We Chose Putin

QUOTE

Choosing Order Before Freedom
... if Russia succeeds as a nation-state in the family of nations,
it will owe much of that success to one man, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
Putin has put his country back on the map...
TIME's Person of the Year is not and never has been an honor. It is not an endorsement...
It is ultimately about leadership—bold, earth-changing leadership...
At significant cost to the principles and ideas that free nations prize, he has performed an extraordinary feat of leadership in imposing stability on a nation that has rarely known it and brought Russia back to the table of world power. For that reason, Vladimir Putin is TIME's 2007 Person of the Year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22323855/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/22322214#22322214

whatever you or anyone can say about Putin - he has been recognized so by Time
for his leadership and what he has done for his country.

or may be "Gas-Putin" has bought Time as Murdoch (and CFR)
bought most of MSM media in the West, as well as you and SoloNav and other cheerleaders ?

well, that would be quite a surprise if he indeed done so !
you should hurry and expose him and Times - call O'Reilly and suggest him this subject !

in fact, I am very surprised that so far O'Reilly didn't try to invite anyone from Time
and "F*ctor up" them for such an outrageous and unscrupulous act:
NAMING PUTIN A MAN OF THE YEAR !

so far the only thing O'Reilly can do is RANT, what he is best at !

O'REILLY: Vlad the assailer
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/a...d-the-assailer/

bla-bla-bla

amazing his demagogy and Demonizing Putin !
he actually calls him Dracula

and villain and many other names.

SoloNav (getting back to your blaming Russians as idiots who believe a liar) -
AT LEAST in Russia we do not have such characters nor news channels
who would do so blunt BASHING of Bush, calling him names and DEMONIZING him !
this is ridiculous to the point of being CHILDISH !

recently he even said that Putin has a "fifth column" in USA !
(watch it here )
wow ! such an intellectual guy, huh ? does he even know what he is talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column

QUOTE

A fifth column is a group of people who clandestinely undermine a larger
group to which it is expected to be loyal, such as a nation.

so, he mean that Putin supposed to be loyal to US ? NBC ?
or that americans must be loyal to O'Reilly, FoxNews and Murdochracy ?

Barack and Vlad.
http://www.billoreilly.com/currentarticle

QUOTE

In the end, Barack Obama will lose the election if independent voters see him as part of the vast far-left conspiracy which, in today's dangerous world, has become a symbol of appeasement and anti-American attitudes. MoveOn.org, NBC News and the New York Times will not get Obama elected. He needs to tell Americans exactly what he thinks of Putin's desire to expand Russian power and influence. And he needs to do it without restraint.

what a GREAT SPINNER he is, huh? makes such a connections and conclusions !
I mean - I DID know that Americans are brainwashed bunch, and that FoxNews is the primary tool in that.
but till reading this - I had only vague idea of HOW MUCH actually they are controlled :
"if someone doesn't agree that Putin is Dracula and must be punished by open war against him -
then he is Leftist and anti-American" ! WOW ! how so much consistent and logical it is !

he also practically openly he openly war-mongering not only towards Iran, but Russia as well :

QUOTE

The only thing a guy like Vlad understands is the stick.

But how to wield it is the question. As with Iran, diplomacy is not likely to deter Mr. Putin because Europe needs Russia's natural gas and oil and is not likely to challenge Russia by supporting sanctions. So it will come down to the United States vs. Russia, mano a mano.

Mr. Putin is one tough customer. It will be interesting to see whether the United States will elect a leader who can effectively neutralize him. If not, old Vlad, like Dracula, will become a scourge on the countryside.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/a...d-the-assailer/

ha ! he is so tough guy, huh?
well, in Russian language we have a saying, translated about like this:
"tough guy against a sheep, but instantly becomes a sheep himself against a real tough guy"

that's what O'Reilly is actually. he has refused to debate with Nas, some rapper-kid !
what to speak - Putin ! I bet O'Reilly simply doesn't have balls to talk to no-nonsense people like Putin !

nevertheless - he and his likes, war-mongerers, and SPINNERS and liars,
are those who CONTROL USA and the "West" today. and it is seriously dangerous !

"The Invisible Government"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-uq7O1RqQQ
(it is split there on youtube, here on Google it is in one piece:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4258131083758254736 )

Freedom Next Time
John Pilger speaks about global media consolidation, war by journalism,
US military's quest for domination/hegemony in the post 9/11 era,
false history in the guise of 'objective' journalism.

QUOTE

Ironically, I began to understand how censorship worked in so-called free societies when I reported from totalitarian societies. During the 1970s I filmed secretly in Czechoslovakia, then a Stalinist dictatorship. I interviewed members of the dissident group Charter 77, including the novelist Zdener Urbanek, and this is what he told me. “In dictatorships we are more fortunate that you in the West in one respect. We believe nothing of what we read in the newspapers and nothing of what we watch on television, because we know its propaganda and lies. Unlike you in the West, we’ve learned to look behind the propaganda and to read between the lines, and unlike you, we know that the real truth is always subversive.”

Vandana Shiva has called this subjugated knowledge. The great Irish muckraker Claud Cockburn got it right when he wrote, “Never believe anything until it’s officially denied.”

One of the oldest clichés of war is that truth is the first casualty. No it’s not. Journalism is the first casualty...

Last year, in his acceptance of the Nobel Prize for Literature, the playwright Harold Pinter made an epoch speech. He asked why, and I quote him, “The systematic brutality, the widespread atrocities, the ruthless suppression of independent thought in Stalinist Russia were well know in the West, while American state crimes were merely superficially recorded, left alone, documented.” And yet across the world the extinction and suffering of countless human beings could be attributed to rampant American power. “But,” said Pinter, “You wouldn’t know it. It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn’t happening. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest.” Pinter’s words were more than the surreal. The BBC ignored the speech of Britain’s most famous dramatist...

Harold Pinter’s subversive truth, I believe, was that he made the connection between imperialism and fascism, and described a battle for history that’s almost never reported. This is the great silence of the media age. And this is the secret heart of propaganda today. A propaganda so vast in scope that I’m always astonished that so many Americans know and understand as much as they do. We are talking about a system, of course, not personalities. And yet, a great many people today think that the problem is George W. Bush and his gang. And yes, the Bush gang are extreme. But my experience is that they are no more than an extreme version of what has gone on before. In my lifetime, more wars have been started by liberal Democrats than by Republicans. Ignoring this truth is a guarantee that the propaganda system and the war-making system will continue....

... most journalists, whether they realize it or not, are groomed to be tribunes of an ideology that regards itself as non-ideological, that presents itself as the natural center, the very fulcrum of modern life. This may very well be the most powerful and dangerous ideology we have ever known because it is open-ended. This is liberalism...

... if we deny its dangers, its open-ended project, and the all-consuming power of its propaganda, then we deny our right to true democracy, because liberalism and true democracy are not the same. Liberalism began as a preserve of the elite in the 19th century, and true democracy is never handed down by elites. It is always fought for and struggled for....

as for the Democrats, look at how Barak Obama has become the voice of the Council on Foreign Relations, one of the propaganda organs of the old liberal Washington establishment....

That is the nub of the propaganda, the brainwashing if you like, that seeps into the lives of every American, and many of us who are not Americans.... Real information, subversive information, remains the most potent power of all — and I believe that we must not fall into the trap of believing that the media speaks for the public. That wasn’t true in Stalinist Czechoslovakia and it isn’t true of the United States...

We need to make haste. Liberal Democracy is moving toward a form of corporate dictatorship. This is an historic shift, and the media must not be allowed to be its façade, but itself made into a popular, burning issue, and subjected to direct action. That great whistleblower Tom Paine warned that if the majority of the people were denied the truth and the ideas of truth, it was time to storm what he called the Bastille of words. That time is now.

John Pilger - Breaking the Mirror
(The Murdoch Effect)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5005752483917353600

and THAT is NOT all - far from it, there is much much more !

Razin

Aug 26 2008, 06:28 PM

QUOTE (ustrader @ Aug 26 2008, 11:05 PM)

wow ! seems like you're very innovative, UStrader, huh ?

inventing some new terms like "left brained genius"

care to define it ?

coz it seems too much so freaking marasmically absurd !

if you mean that my left-side brain is more developed - you might be even right, because:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain#Neurolinguistics
In human beings, it is the left hemisphere that usually contains the specialized language areas.

and also left side of brain considered responsible for few other things like : analytical function, logic, verbal...

may be that's why you consistently lack these qualities, since you are "right-brained" ?

that would definitely explain why you like to say "That is All" - because you're naturally must be unable to produce any logical and intellectual conversation but only LABELS STICKING ?

but here is a small consolation for you:

While functions are lateralized, the lateralizations are functional trends, and are not applicable in every case. Short of having undergone a hemispherectomy (removal of a cerebral hemisphere), no one is a "left-brain only" or "right-brain only" person.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralization_of_brain_function)

so, after all you must have SOME capacities , not totally hopeless !

I'll not even try to go into the word "genius" - it is too broad and vague.

now, regarding your "facts"

I can tell you: spare me your American "party game" - I don't give a sh1t who is who !
and even less - the percentage of them in MSM auditories

so, EAT ME - yes, you can call me ignorant. WTF ?
I don't even want to want to be informed about your "Facts"

and even if I wanted - WHO claims these facts are TRUE ?
I bet again the same BIASED MSM !

man, I am beaten sack. remember - I've grown up in Soviet regime !

so, as Pilger said (about those living in dictatorships) -
I DO have the skill to doubt the "official" doctrines and "read between the lines".
unlike you !

however thanks for reminding me ....

while watching few of O'Reilly's F*ctor clips on Youtube and even some other clips like MSNBC's Olberman - I have noticed that they often quote some statistics as - how many people WATCH such and such program or Chanel.

and it made me wonder:

HOW do they get these numbers?
yeah, suppose all these News channels and talk shows are only available for those who subscribe for cable TV network.
and even IF there are means to check by those subscription the number of potential veiwers of particular program.

but still - HOW can they (whoever makes such reports) can make sure - whether those subscribed people are REALLY watching or not doing something else at that time like sleeping / sh1tting / copulating / whatever you name it...

this thinking brought me to the frightening scenario :

perhaps it is something like that horror idea in Orwell's book - that inside the TV screen and even the mirrors the "Big brother" has installed some tracking and spying device?

otherwise HOW they can so confidently report all those numbers?

and it is like corporate business reports, in competition spirit:
FoxNews tells MSNBC "hey, fire that guy - he causes your popularity drop and reduces the number of those who watches your program !"

so, it is not just something to BS the public - these are real benchmarks and practical terms they use, sort of professional jargon, technical language among the fellows.

anyway, even beside the matter of source of and means to obtain such statistical info...

the very fact that they DO mention these number - doesn't it bother anyone and make THINK ?
doesn't it raise questions like "hey, we are being OWNED ! they are herding us into this or that stable and branding us by this or that political and ideological group ! WHAT FOR ?"

this is some scary sh1t, man ! seriously.
MSM exposes itself so: they self-admit their constant competition for CONTROLLED MINDS and numbers of those minds !
they do NOT compete for the integrity and HONESTY of the information they present !
but rather for the score of who will get more stupid idiots brainwashed to which degree !

thanks to God that I am not American and not living there but in some "3rd world" country as Thailand.
at least I can watch and read what I CHOOSE.
and not being labeled as anti-American if I do not accept BIAS of Western MSM

Partizan

Aug 27 2008, 12:09 AM

QUOTE (Razin @ Aug 27 2008, 03:51 AM)

AT LEAST in Russia we do not have such characters nor news channels
who would do so blunt BASHING of Bush, calling him names and DEMONIZING him !
this is ridiculous to the point of being CHILDISH !

Why? We are 'proud' to have one. What about this guy?

ustrader

Aug 27 2008, 01:14 AM

name='Razin' date='Aug 27 2008, 06:51 AM' post='105185']
well, UStrader - Funk you very much too !

PUTIN'S NASHI YOUTH

Sounds familar, hmm? O yea,

QUOTE

ha ! he is so tough guy, huh?
well, in Russian language we have a saying, translated about like this:
"tough guy against a sheep, but instantly becomes a sheep himself against a real tough guy"

Hmm, perhaps comrade, the Ivan is not so good, you mean;

жесткий парень любит делать овец являются хорошими русскими, но и овец которые делать любовь к России, является лучшим российским всех, нет?

Anyone notice that EVERYONE is LOOKING at PUTIN and "ignoring the child at the end of table," the PRESIDENT of GasPutinland, wink, Wink.

THAT is all !

Razin

Aug 27 2008, 11:04 AM

congradulations, UStrader !

so, you are good at searching "Google images", huh?
oh, yeah - and then editing them with Photoshop.

wow ! that's really an achievement for lobotomized Zombie

I won't even go into further details like: what are you trying to prove?
or rather: what actually are you doing by posting all these graphics and SO LARGE text ?

reminds me of "Memos" by Bill O'reilly during his F*cktor shows:
mass-hypnosis on large scale, making sure that his brainwashing gets through and sticks in there.

but I mean - come on man ! this IS NOT a FoxNews auditory !
it is internet, and MAY BE, just may be by some miraculous chance some THOUGHTFUL
people would stumble upon this Forum.
aint' you afraid to scare them away with your CHEAP GRAPHICAL HYPNOTIZING techniques ?

because I am sure you are very much aware of the attendance numbers to this Forum.
another day I have even read in Admin talk discussion between SoloNav and another member (Fit... something ?)
and she told him like: "yeah, I insult them all the time, and you attack them - no wonder they leave"

well, I think she forgot to add : "and UStrader bores them to death with his GRAPHICAL HYPNOTIZING"

so, man - spare me your CHEAP psychotropic tricks, because:
1) you are not good at it anyway !

2) I am kinda immune to all this sh1t - remember, I am Russian after all,
I've grown up in the midst of SLOGANS IN GIANT FONT, posters, Headers and other propaganda devices!
and I have got over all that LONG TIME AGO.

unfortunately it seems - you not !

and if you prefer to continue playing games with Russian language,
thinking that what you are writing makes sense or that you're any good at it,
then here is my first lesson to you (let's see how you will get its meaning right) :

отвечай за свой базар !!!

I have to warn you though: unless you actually KNOW Russian language,
don't even try to use translating programs ! coz this is very idiomatic phrase mixed with slang.
and get it once and forever to your tiny brain: IF you are not good in other language,
then don't even try to have some meaningful exchange (it doesn't even come to conversation).

so ONLY if you stop you ridiculous silly usage of Russian here and promise to be adult -
I may consider helping you to translate it and get its meaning.

because I assure you - you DO need to understand its meaning !
otherwise you will continue your senile (or childish) silly outbursts of GRAPHICAL HYPNOTIZING here,
while boring us all, and all the potential visitors, by lame attempts to sell your DEMAGOGY to us !

man - I have exposed you here in this Forum LOOOOOOOOOONG time ago, at least 2-3 years before.
yet you never give up - do you ? even BoonMe and JohnK have left already. yet you still go on pestering people, huh ?

P.S. I am considering: may I have to take pity on you and since may be you are unable to TALK but only to express yourself in Graphic images and symbols - perhaps I have to come down to your sad level and start to respond to your such posts in the same fashion: by posting photos and funny images to get through to you?
perhaps that would be easier for you, hey ?

ustrader

Aug 27 2008, 12:07 PM

QUOTE

so, man - spare me your CHEAP psychotropic tricks, because:

“Psychotropic hey”, Yahoo, Kremlin Cowboy, acting on a Raz-Putin mind never entered into my equations, I just assumed being a Faux Russian ALBION a mind, was not in play.

Сленг, you say comrade ALBION Celtic Балалайка.

отвечай за свой базар !!! Be responsible for the market!!!

ответственный за его собственный базар!

QUOTE

lame attempts to sell your DEMAGOGY to us !

Hmm, GasPutin Блядский, let me see demagogy (Ancient Greek δημαγωγία, from δῆμος dēmos "people" and ἄγειν agein "to lead").

That makes sense, being a counterfeit Russian ALBION (поддельный русский язык) I can well understand how you must feel to have always had to follow a step behind and never be allowed to lead. It is sad, I feel your pain comrade..

QUOTE

P.S. I am considering: may I have to take pity on you and since may be you are unable to TALK but only to express yourself in Graphic images and symbols - perhaps I have to come down to your sad level and start to respond to your such posts in the same fashion: by posting photos and funny images to get through to you? perhaps that would be easier for you, hey?

I thank the good fake Russian ALBION Celtic for his consideration of my well being.

But my Good RazPutin, like water always seeking the lowest level available, I merely seek to inform some to their level so that a meaning can be understandable. As you know, in a barrel with a leak, the high water mark eventually sinks down to the lowest level of the leak, hey Comrade RazPutin?

GasPutin Fuehrer, Sig heil! Слава, чтобы запугать Россию

The glory Russia intimidates Georgia

Слава Россия запугивает Джорджию

THAT IS ALL!!

Razin

Aug 27 2008, 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Nomad @ Aug 12 2008, 06:37 AM)

And whom would you prefer as the US president with a malignant Russia on the march....... McPain or BO??

somehow Nomad has kept quite ever since his first sensationalist post.

so - why don't you provide FACTS ? like - numbers of civilian casualties or something?

while there are already facts from International envoys to Ossetia about Georgian GENOCIDE !
(I trust you are able to search Google news yourself or shall I help you ?)

meanwhile though there are quite a few News about civilian casualties elsewhere:

Afghanistan

U.S. Killed 90, Including 60 Children, in Afghan Village, U.N. Finds

QUOTE

A United Nations human rights team has found “convincing evidence” that 90 civilians — among them 60 children — were killed in airstrikes on a village in western Afghanistan on Friday, according to the United Nations mission in Kabul.
The numbers closely match those given by a government commission sent from Kabul to investigate the bombing, which put the total dead at up to 95.

residents say civilians have also been killed.
An estimated 200,000 people have fled to safer areas.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIE0IUn...H5RXzgD92QO6381

Conflicts and spiraling insurgency have claimed the lives of over 3,000 people so far this year.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/...ent_9724731.htm

An Afghan woman mourns the death of a relative

well, yeah - this Afgani woman must be grateful that LIBERATING US Army has freed her from Taliban and allowed her to open her face ! so, now while mourning her slain CIVILAIN relatives - she can proudly display her face, the victory for "Western democratic values" in the barbarian Asia