http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=O...2JlNjNjNjkxZmM=

So...Obongo attacks him for not using the computer. Yet, they don't understand that the reason he doesn't use a computer is because he CAN'T. Sambo is worthless. He has not even fired a rifle, or faced an enemy in battle. How can NObama lecture McCain? Oh yeah, he is a liberal so they are more important and can get away with anything.

But of course. Leave it to the left to make fun of a gimp. Never mind the fact that the liberal GOD, FDR, was in diapers and a wheelchair. The very same FDR that packed the court with an extra 2 judges and created the social security fiasco. BO is going down in flames. As he gets more desperate the personal attacks will intensify. Liberals are sooooooooo predictable.

On the plus side, if his "severe" Vietnam injuries are so bad, at least he won't be pushing any red buttons.



Don't you think that might have something to do with the fact that he was against the war in Iraq and he's not exactly the hunting type either ?

Tokis, this is nothing but pure hate speech which you've been putting out since arriving on this forum, but yell bloody murder if someone says something unkind to you.

Can you see why your opinion is not valued ?

When have i ever complained ("yell bloody murder" in your words) that people have said unkind stuff to me? Or is this another foundless accusation?

Secondly, i was making a sarcastic point on McCain's Vietnam injuries- i wouldn't exactly call it "hate speech" (although i hate to drag up the past, you are guilty of doing hate speech yourself). The fact that McCain can hold a mike, shake hands, give the thumbs up sign etc leads me to believe that his hands are physically capable enough of using a keyboard- if his hands are so bad, then can he even write? Avengers article says he can't even comb his own hair.

ps: secondly the value you place on my opinions is not something that concerns me a massive deal since i know there are many that share my opinions, and besides, i have confidence in my own beliefs.

Thank you for showing your true colors Tokis. You are mocking a disabled man who got hurt protecting American freedoms. Fuggin unbelievable how low you will go. Also, did you know that senior citizens have a hard time using computers because of arthritis?

So because Americans number 1 negro is against the war in Iraq, he shouldn't of even served OUR country. Serving our country is not a requirement for president, but mocking the injurys that man receives from protecting OUR freedoms is just despicable, but why should a spoiled British girl care about what McCain went through for our freedoms?

Read the quarrels you are having with Avenger.

I would, and I did. Why do you have to make such lame excuses for what you did? Can't you just say what you said was inappropriate without making it worse by excusing it because he can't comb his hair, etc. THAT MAKES IT OK TO MAKE FUN OF HIM???
Still cruel what you said regardless of what he can and cannot do.

Name them.........on this board.

How am i mocking him because he is disabled? You fail to answer my question: If his hand injuries are so bad then how can he write? Signing treaties and contracts and things are an important capability that a president must have (you don't deny this do you?).




Again i'm not mocking his injuries i'm simply questioning your articles information (which you so far have failed to defend).

Secondly, if going to fight in the war in Iraq is so vital to being a good American, then why aren't you over there right now yourself defending/protecting your countries freedoms?

I have had family in Iraq, and currently will be having more deploy in months to come. When did I say serving in Iraq makes you a good American? You are accusing me of points I have not made. Hoping the war loses to make republicans look bad is unamerican. Supporting the troops and veterans that have fought and thanking them for our freedom is patriotic.

That is mocking his injuries.

It was him who was doing the complaining, i quote;





I don't believe his injuries are as bad as Avengers article are making out and that is the point i was making. And if they are, can he even write? If he can't comb his hair then surely he can't write. Again, signing treaties and contracts and things are an important capability that a president must have (you don't deny this do you?). I have nothing against the fact that he is disabled (I sympathize for Woodrow Wilson, the American disabled president), but if he is incapable of writing then he won't be able to fulfill his presidential duties if he is elected.



As far as i am aware there are 8 main active members on this forum, not including me (Thaiquilla, Nomad, Ustrader, Avenger, Foy, John L, Grizzly and you) and most of you as far as i am aware are pro-McCain/Palin so of course the bulk of you are not going to like my opinions. But you you guys do not represent America- my opinions represent/reflect almost 50% of the American voters opinions and the opinions of the vast majority in almost 22 other countries in this run for presidency, and that is the more important thing don't you agree?

So if you don't think fighting in your countries wars is important to being a good/better American, then why do you make such a point of Obama not fighting in war and the fact that McCain has (I quote: )? If the war in Iraq is so important to you then you should go out there yourself. Do you or don't you believe that fighting in America's wars makes you a better or not better (or neutral) American?

Secondly i have nothing against America's soldiers (if anything, i want America to make the best of its soldiers by pulling them out of Iraq and re-deploying them in Afghanistan where they are much more needed. See recent thread: http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?showtopic=9206 ) and i am not disrepting McCain simply because he is a veteran or anything like that- but i am suspicious of the extent that your article makes McCain's injuries out to be (because if he was that bad then he surely wouldn't be able to write, which as before mentioned is a very important ability to have if you are president).



I'm not mocking his injuries i simply don't believe his injuries are as bad as the article makes out (and i have already clarified this for you), otherwise he wouldn't be able to fulfill his presidential duties (don't you agree that if you are incapable of combing your hair then you are probably not capable of writing?).

No. The reason he can't comb his hair is because he can't raise his hands above his shoulders due to injuries he had as a P.O.W. You need to read my signature............ He also can't raise his arm to put his hand over his heart or salute. Ever notice how awkward he looks while holding a mike? Both of his arms are extra short............from unset bones.........for five years.

He's perfectly capable of writing or anything else that doesn't require his raising his hands over his shoulders.

Tokis, you just don't know as much as you think you do.

You did your share.

See my post above.

Actually, McCain is gaining voters every day. Obama is slowing losing as people see who he really is. Your BBC is doing you a disservice, Tokis. They are like the MSM here..........they only print what make liberals sound good, and even lie. It's sad that all your opinions about America is formed by the foreign press. You guys know very little about what is really going on here. No. Only you Brits seem to think your opinion is as important as the people who live here, and who know what is going on within our country better than any foreign personality, and who live with the consequences of our votes.

Tell you what...........I think Britain should throw out the liberal Labor side of your government and elect only Tories!!!! Now, get crackin'!!! And, I don't like the stuffy way you all talk, with your noses in the air, don't like that you drink so much tea, wear such frumpy clothes and shoes, and have such ugly teeth. Now, change all that immediately!!!!! I'm sure at least 50% of the world population would agree with me and that's what is important, isn't it?

The pictures i've seen of him suggest he can to a certain extent;








He seems to be able to hold a mike fine to me;



More importantly though;



So if he is capable of doing anything that doesn't require him raising his hands above his shoulders then why does Avengers article say;

"McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. "

? You don't have to raise your arms above your shoulders to type or tie shoes so then how do you explain that if you say "He's perfectly capable of writing or anything else that doesn't require his raising his hands over his shoulders"?

IMHO, if someone is physically capable of writing then they should be physically capable of typing.

Can you quote something then?
If you think Avenger is also guilty of complaining, then when you complain about people complaining to be fair you shouldn't just direct it at me. Just a point.




Over the last few days overall he's only being leading by a couple of percent (correct me if i am wrong)- so i don't see how you can disagree with me when i say "my opinions represent/reflect almost 50% of the American voters opinions"- secondly his support abroad overall is not increasing so i my second statement remains true. Thirdly there has been plenty of anti-McCain/Palin press in your own country so its hardly like my anti-McCain/Palin views are completely based on "foreign press" or that all the bad press on McCain is coming from abroad or something like that.
edit: I would also like to add that my main reason for not being in support of Palin/McCain is that i see many flaws in a lot of their main policies/views or do not see such policies to be the best solution etc.




Haha this is rich coming from someone who only earlier in this thread accused me/complained to me of "hate speech", its very hypocritical of you u'know.
Also you seem to have no idea that almost everybody in this country hates Nulabor and wants them out! You say i don't know whats really going in your country, but you are obviously completely clueless to such an extent about whats going on it mine its laughable!

OK.


You don't get it, do you? What people abroad think is not important because they're not voting. Did you not read what I said about the MSM?

Ok, list them.

No, dear. That wasn't hate speech. I'm sorry that you didn't get it. I was giving you an overblown criticism to illustrate that opinion is merely that...........opinion. And, my opinion, regardless of how silly I stated it, is as good as yours and your countrymen that believe McCain is not a good candidate. Of course, I don't know that much about your country, and neither do you about ours. I don't hold those opinions. I was exaggerating to make a point. Which obviously was over your head. <sigh>

Look closely. I've watched him from side views. He's leaning backwards to lift his hands. You are using photos only. Have you really watched him? Obviously not.






I said have you seen how awkward he is holding a mike. His arms are too short to meet in the middle.


I didn't read the article. OK, let's change it to "over his head." Combing his hair is more difficult than raising his arm (without leaning back); typing on the keyboard requires much body coordination..........pay attention to your posture while you are typing. If your arms were too short would you be able to type? His shoulder were broken as well............do you know anything about physiology, or physical therapy and body mechanics? Tying his shoes requires arms long enough to reach down, as well as good shoulder movement.

Read up on body mechanics, OK? And, quit just sounding off without knowing what you're talking about.

Well, you just don't know. Ask a physical therapist.


EDIT: Just forget it. I don't perceive that you are interested in anything, but arguing a point because you made it (even without any understanding). I don't consider this anything but an argument, no discussion. You won't budge even when you are obviously uninformed and ignorant (ignorant means untaught) of details. There's no use in trying to discuss with you because you're just not willing to learn anything other than your uninformed snap opinion. You're going on Ignore.

Let me clarify this- can you quote me complaining about people saying unkind things to me since you make the accusation?



Thats a very arrogant view. What you guys do affects us- since we have helped you in your wars, traded with you etc we hold opinions on what you do on fundamental stuff like this and if you are wise you should take our opinions into consideration (or at least try to understand what reasons we have for forming our opinions instead of just outright immediately lambasting them etc).
What is most frustrating is that you seem to make no attempt to even understand the reasons as to why people have formed their certain opinions.




For example i disagree with McCains/Palins idea for solution to America's fuel crises, i disagree with Palin's stance on Abstinence policies and creationism in schools etc, i disagree with McCains stance on the War in Iraq and his views concerning Guantanamo Bay etc. The reasons for these disagreements are in-depth, and besides, i've already raised my views and reasons on such things on numerous threads on the forum already (if i went into as to why i had formed my certain opinions here it would take up too much space and be off-topic to the original debate of this thread).



If you believe the worth of our opinions are as good as each other then what was the point of you bringing it up in the first place?



Based on what you've said so far about my country you're extremely off the mark about it- i wouldn't say i know just as much about your country as you do about mine, because i've based the vast amount of my views on America on factual information.



The comparisons you used to make your point were not very relevant/accurate.

You should do, especially if you are defending McCains disability and present yourself as someone who knows stuff about it.



Typing doesn't really require any particular posture- you can do it slouching, sitting straight, leaning backwards, any position really etc. All you use to type are your fingers and arms (which are in a relaxed position).



Well lets keep in mind that he hardly has the arms of a midget and the body of a normal size guy here (i only notice a slight shortness in his arms), yes you would be able to type pretty much regardless of the length of your arms, because generally speaking most people have their laptop/desktop on a table and sit on a chair as they type and if you had short arms you would simply pull the keyboard closer to you.



Well initially you said he can do anything that doesn't involve lifting his arms above his shoulders, so do you now retract that statement as inaccurate, or do you disagree with the info in Avengers article and agree with me that its not completely true/correct?



You're the one who was making bold statements on McCains physical capabilities not me. If you can't answer my questions doesn't that suggest that its you who needs to stop acting so confident in their statements?



To use a keyboard you merely have to be capable of pushing buttons (and the movement of pushing is one of the most basic movements of all), writing on the other hand requires complex movements of the muscles and bones in the hand- writing is certainly a lot more tasking/complicated/skilled ability (which icludes the ability of pushing) than the ability to press buttons.
This must mean that if you are physically capable of writing you must be physically capable of using a keyboard. If you are not physically capable of using a keyboard then you must not be physically capable of writing. So i do know (and it doesn't take a genius to figure stuff out like this)- so based on the information in Avengers article we can surmise that either;

a. McCain is not physically capable of typing or writing. Or that,
b. McCain is physically capable of typing and writing, so the reason/s why he cannot use a computer is not because he is physically incapable of typing on a keyboard but rather because of some other reason, and that Avengers article is incorrect on this part.



My side of debate is this- i don't believe Avengers article is completely correct (and i have given plenty of reasons as to why i believe this). Its you who fails to properly answer question after question (if you were actually able to answer my questions properly then perhaps there might be more discussion in this) and defend your side of argument properly- you didn't even read Avengers article. Why should i budge from my opinions when you give me no reason to (because you can't even answer half my questions properly)?
Anyways, ignore me if you will, you loose.

Avenger: how did you feel when Max Cleland was attacked by his Republican opponent, Rep. Saxby Chambliss, "for breaking his oath to protect and defend the Constitution." ? Saxby had a bad knee, so like the Shakespearean quote: "He jests at scars that never felt the wound."

Don't you think that is fuggin unbelievable?

Hey grizzly, think before you open your mouth. Tokis was mocking him, I did NOT mock Cleland. Saxby was not saying Cleland did not defend the constitution for fighting and going through all of his injurys. He said he broke his oath because he voted AGAINST the defense of our country. In your world, anyone who got injured in war should have a free ride? Not be challenged at all when running for office? Is that what you are saying? Many things I do not agree with about McCain, but I still respect him for what he has accomplished. I also thank Cleland for serving our country, and protecting my freedoms. That is something Tokis will NOT do. Now, if you can show me in the article where Saxby said he did not defend the constitution because he got injured, by all means post it. I would not support that behavior. Don't criticize me for something I have never said.

Think before opening my mouth?! Think before opening my mouth?!

Didn't you even take the time to read the friggin link?!

That's really something to go after someone about, huh -- that Chemical Weapons Treaty admendment. Why didn't Chambliss go after the rest of them that voted the same way, huh?! Read my words: Cleland. Was. Picked. On. Which made it unfair -- especially seeing that Chambliss bowed out over a knee injury.

Maybe the reason he attacked him, is because he is RUNNING AGAINST HIM. He did not attack someone who was in another state. He attacked someone who voted for the the chemical weapon treaty that is his OPPONENT. He is trying to make his opponent look bad, that is what HAPPENS in politics. Do you honestly think those that are disabled should be exempt from mudslinging on a completely different subject. Now grizz, think before you speak. Sometimes I wonder if you are really this stupid, or you are trying to make democrats look bad on purpose.

The Grizz is a certified Genuis "A", make no mistake. It is just that he is within his own little universe, and we are aliens.

Further, the Grizz actually believes what he is crowing about. I'm serious.

Ah...there you go again?! First Chambliss wasn't doing anything wrong -- at least according to you; now, it's OK to use such a thing against a decorated war veteran. But maybe it's because he is a Democrat. Yep, you Republicans are sooo predictable -- using an argument to support your ideas and beliefs, then going back on them when you find weak links that can no longer support them.

BTW: How's the grammar lessons coming along?

Are you insane? This is like arguing with a wall. Are you saying, that this republican should not say he is better qualified because this man is handicapped?

Yet even again, you do not like the way that you're driving but enjoy the fact that you're lost. I can't help you with that. I guess this is called having a 'guilty conscience'.

You try winning one argument, yet you can not do it, so you take the Republican ideological route -- try to change course without finding out if you could actually get to your desired destination. Too bad. I feel for you. ( Thinking: what is this -- three times now?)

You refuse to answer my questions...

Do you honestly think those that are disabled should be exempt from mudslinging on a completely different subject?

Are you saying, that this republican should not say he is better qualified because this man is handicapped?

Please stop taking the "liberal" way out and refuse to answer the question. By the way grizz, why don't you stop by my global cooling thread.

The McCain traps keep bear snapping the Obama nation, surely one can see that anyone who would fall for an “old man's trickery, “ is not remotely ready for PRIME TIME.

The McCain bear trap for not ready for prime Obamacans


“If Internet savvy is a basic qualification for leadership in the modern age, how can it be that Billy Jeff — still a major figure in the Democratic Party and the head of an influential global charity — sent exactly two e-mails as president and remains offline to this day?”

A commenter at the liberal TNR blog is shaking his/her head: “I just don’t get the thinking behind it at all. Don’t they realize that there are 83 million Americans in the non-line community? And most of those are probably in downscale households they NEED to turn out? They’re insulting these people! Gratuitously!” Not READY FOR PRIME TIME.

Don't they know that attacking people for being old, is attacking the largest voting Block of them all? NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.

Don't they understand that the relentless attacks on Palan are seen by many as Old time politics and sexism by American Women, especially Hillary women, who they have insulted for nearly two years and continue to insult now in proxy through these relentless and multi-Obamacans sources that are showing weakness, not strength by these attacks on Palan. NOT READFY FOR PRIME TIME.

The Obama campaign does have a way of doing that…

As strange as it may be to imagine, there are Americans who don’t use email, many who use it rarely, and many who don’t like it. There American who are old and vote in large Numbers. There are Disabled Americans veterans and non-Veterans that are always being discriminated against, ridiculed and demeaned as "retarded and useless by these Obama angry young Nazi like Elitists.

Implying that they are stuck in the ’80s does not seem like a smart move. A lot of these folks are sensitive to being called “out of date” or “out of touch.”

What starts as an attack on John McCain–”he can’t use a computer”–sounds a lot like an attack on everyone who doesn’t. As Allah says, that’s a lot of seniors. But not just seniors. It’s a personal attack on anyone who doesn’t switch on their computers right after they switch on their coffeemakers.

Sure, it squeezes in an attempt at a substantive issue–”he doesn’t understand the economy” But if know how to use a computer is a real effect change for the economy, they left that part of the ad–Yet, what is obvious as the gist of the whole ad is that McCain is old and old things aren’t cool and as such are worthless and not needed. Didn’t Dr Death Hitler’s Mangala the Butcher not come up with the idea that the infirmed and ineffectual in society should be done away with?

That’s what the shot of the brick cellphone and the rubix cube are all about. But something that Obama obviously didn’t consider is that old people hold grudges, especially when some half-grown dandy spits in their faces, so do veterans, so do the disabled and the impaired, I not exactly saure who is not getting it, but I am sure, who is representing a select fraction of voting Americans, The Obamacans and no one else like the disabled, the old, Veterans and the rest of those 83 million Americans who do not use computers every day or hardly if not at all.

As to the angry vitriolic discussion of McCain’s disability and the youthful view of the disabled at large, well, I understand disability and one a month I go to where thousands of Veterans like McCain understand what it is like to be disabled in world where illiterate fascists like youth demean them for being disabled.

Many can say what they will about McCain’s arms, tokky girl can pretend she is not mocking and that her photos show he can raise his arms, what is missing from these overly ignorant utterance of Tokky and Grizz liver, who have never experienced the pain one has from these who are disabled and have McCain like Injuries.

Sure in brief moment one can raise their arms, but not without pain and if our unfeeling angry loons had the common intelligence to understand what is visibly right in front of them, in the very photos they present, and in the many videos they have seen of McCain raising his arms, they would note the odd inward sloping angles and how in reference to 90 degrees, the rise in his arm, as it appears, is really from his elbow, not his shoulders. They would also notice that every time he does raise his arms his facial expression changes to what appears to be a contrive smile but which is a response to pain.

Now to educate the uneducated by choice I am sure.

The important structures of the shoulder can be divided into several categories. These include

• bones and joints
• ligaments and tendons
• muscles
• nerves
• blood vessels
• bursae

The shoulder like the hips is extremely complex, with a design that provides maximum mobility and range of motion. Besides big lifting jobs, the shoulder and hip joint is also responsible for getting the hand and legs in the right position for any and all functions and movements of the humans body. When you realize all the different ways and positions we use our hands and legs every day, it is easy to understand how hard daily life can be when the shoulder or hip isn't working well.

A human does not make any movement of his body which does not cause either torque on the tendons and or counter variance muscle stretching and contractions with the large muscle groups attached to either.

As one can see by the photos below, there are many tendons, ligaments and nerves that run through the shoulder as the hip, once these tendons are damaged especially by trauma, they become chronically inflamed and grow more ridged and less flexible with each episode of inflammation, in the case of McCain and I, these episodes have been chronically occurring for more than 40 years.

I having taken an AK through that area from below on my left shoulder and through my right hip as it passed through those massive areas of tendons, nerves and ligaments in my left shoulder and my right hip I can honestly explain an oddity of how this damage affects one mobility in differing ways not so obvious.

In my case, I will stick to my shoulders as the initial damage to my hip was more lifelong and unfixable. First off in my shoulder my flexibly and range of motion would appear normal if you viewed me raising my arms or lifting something, even relatively heavy objects, but to my front, where my arm does not extend backwards more than 75 degree parallel or over 90 degrees above to my shoulders to the rear. Once my arm extends backwards and or upwards past that angle, my arm often begins to violently and uncontrollable shake and or becomes so weak and painful I cannot even hold a can of soup but for a moment or two at best.

Why my long term inflamed damage is to the rear components of my shoulder, not the initial injury as that was repaired, it is nerve inflammation and or damage caused by rigidity in the rear flex components of the shoulder, such as tendons and ligaments, that in that position begin to tighten in inflexible torque and pain when used.

McCain having had his front and rear tendons, nerves and ligaments damage initially has a similar range of motion problem cause by perhaps his initial injuries, as they are unknown, but as well, as much by years of inflammation as the initial injuries, which does not allow his arms to extended outward or upward above an obvious angle of flex without pain and weakness.



I give you whinny’s a challenge, have some person or persons strong enough to lift you entire weight, first Bind you at the wrist so they are squeezed together tightly after they have extended you arms behind you so that your hands touch your lower back and or upper butt. Then have then tightly bind your elbows together above the elbow half way between the elbow and the shoulder so that they your elbows and parts of you upper arms touch as you arms are extended as to your rear as I explained.

Lastly have them insert a bar or something that can easily hold your entire weight just under your arms as close as possible to your arm pits crossing underneath each from one side to the other.

Then have them lift or better yet hang you suspended you so that none of your weight is supported by anything but ropes and the bar underneath your shoulders. Now hold that position for at least’s 15 minutes and then tell us if you think you could have stayed in that position for 8 or hours, many times over years, and not come out permanently unable to lift your arms.

Now I know not one of you has the courage to honestly try it, because you do not have honest courage to accept that there humans besides your Jihad friends that are tortured and who suffer while you bloviate and pontificate as if you have every done, or likely will every do, anything of significance or importance for a greater cause in your entire lives.

That is all!


P.S tokky, given how rather vitrolic you have been lately, and since in the Uk media they are saying the Muslims are seemingly taking over the UK, perhaps you should view this to get an idea of a future that you may indeed live long enough to see and experience in the Public square of cockney land.

The UK perhaps in the not to distant future

Thank you, Trader. You said more eloquently than I what I was trying to say. You said it from personal experience. I've looked for McCain's speech in which for the first time he publicly spoke of his injuries, something he has been loathe to do in the past. From MY personal experience from working with people who have PTSD, victims try their best to avoid memories by not talking about the issues that caused the memories.

Here is his prepared speech which describes what he went through to get some of those injuries which have been so blithely ignored by those wishing to win an argument:


In addition to these injuries he underwent the torture which you described above with his arms trussed up and held dangling.

Yes, these injurires cause lasting pain. In my job, I've served people who were just mending from one broken bone.........the pain is immense and sometimes when it doesn't heal properly, causes life-long pain and limited or no range of motion. McCain had two broken arms, a broken shoulder, a broken ankle, and a broken leg.

Also, I had also meant to, but forgot to mention the pain that I see come over his pain as he raises his right arm. It is a tight smile that he used to overcome the pain. I'm sure his detractors would like to have something like to jump on to add to his ailments over which to beat him over the head. D.a.m.n their eyes!

No i wasn't mocking him i was mocking your article- two different things numbnuts, and i have already clarified this for you.

Ustrader, very long speech there, but your points are irrelevant to what i am argueing- if someone is physically incapable of typing, then surely they should be physically incapable of writing? Arguing that such a person can write is like trying to argue that someone who can't walk can run.
Secondly, your reference to Guantanamo Bay and my perspective on it (where else would you form form such an idea on Jihad and me?) is incorrect- i quote my original post;



http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?showtopic...mp;#entry105728

I don't agree with torture and i disagree with the practice of confining someone indefinitely when they have no specific charges brought against them nor is there any evidence against them, and keeping them in conditions that deprive them of basic human rights. I have nothing against the locking up and prosecuting of terrorists, but this should only be done when there is evidence and charges against them. Do you agree with this?

Secondly i don't agree or believe everything the UK media says, just like how you shouldn't believe everything your US media says.

OK. That makes at least four times now. I'm getting bored.

Your first comeback to me on this subject:



Your point:

1.) Saxby is pissed off because of the way Max voted, which Saxby feels is detrimental to our constitution, right?

First and foremost when you place both people -- Cleland and Chambliss -- in to comparison, personnally, I feel that Cleland has earned more of the right to say what he thinks is correct about that admendment -- and I could care less if Max was a lawmaker or not. (On that admendment: Lets face it. Any human being that is from that nation should have the right to walk through areas and inspect them right along with people from friendly nations. Now part of your argument might be that seeing that it is a nation that has terrorists that we have fought, so, than, why should we let them participate? Balderdash! I can cut that one down too! If we can not turn them in to a productive nation, than why should we stay there?)

Now further on with Mr. Chambliss: If you were to take Saxby's viewpoints on Max seriously, than should we not wonder why he didn't accuse those other lawmakers for not defending the Constitution as well? Just as hard as Saxby went after Max? I mean this, according to Saxby, is a serious matter, right? Perhaps he didn't wish to get some of his buddies in trouble, huh. That would be very unpatriotic of me to think that, huh.

I remember tjhe columnist Mark Shields writing, "Chambliss did not participate in Vietnam. He had a bad knee". Yeah, OK. Now go to Saxby's Site and click on one of the following videos -- "4th of July" or "Saxby gets things done for North Georgia" -- and watch him use both of those knees. As you're watching those videos, I challenge people to consider whether or not Cleland could do exactly what you're watching Chambliss doing -- walking quite briskly. Heck. There was one time that Chamblis stopped abruptly to go back and have his picture taken with some kids; that must have been murder on his knee, huh. (Thinking: I wonder if Max Cleland has a bad knee. Oops! That's right. He doesn't have any, huh. I guess we will never know!)

Now I'll allow you to get back to your good ole conservative buddy, and let him tell you how to flame throw me next through PMs.

I agree with Trader, who gives a flying leap if he can't use a computer? Only inventive, or bored minds, take time to even find a reason to consider this to be an important issue. This is a non-issue.

Some folks spend their time minoring in majors, and majoring in minors.

Grizz, stop finding ignorant excuses to justify your arguments which have no base in reality. You know, someone with a bad knee could have MANY things wrong with it. I also believe in 30 years, I bet modern medicine could of helped his knee! You are ridiculous. The reason he went after his opponent is because it was a way to discredit him! You are going off topic here grizz. I have not read any evidence saying he went after his opponent because of his injuries.

Why don't you take your on bitter medicine first? You're the one who believed in Jenkem after reading only half an article, weak !

You found an article stating it was a hoax. No real proof when I found much more evidence for it. BBC does not need to rule your shallow self obsessed life.

Actually, i didn't use the BBC at all, i used your very own article (Wikipedia no less) you provided to prove it was a hoax !

Oh swell, anybody who reads the national review and Jonah Goldberg ought to be pittied, kind of like a dog who eats the dung of other dogs.

Well Slick, first, I don't know many fighter pilots who use rifles in their cockpit, and your racism would embarass a pig, so could you mosey along and explain what your garbled posts wants to indicate?

Since John Mccain, a 72 year old man has seen fit not to release his medical files, I don't see the basis for you accusing him of being a gimp. Can you respond to this with anything but your personal opinion and meth induced hate?

John Mccain is not a gimp and and can use a Blackberry. So he ought to be able to use a computer without physical problems.

What’s truly absurd about this is that no matter how much photographic evidence is produced showing McCain is perfectly capable of operating a computer, no matter how many times McCain himself says he’s learning to work email and the Web–but still needs lessons–no matter how completely refuted this meme is guys like you read something on a far rightwing website and you think you're Moses walking down Sinai with the ultimate truth of things. And every damned time you get it wrong, every damned time. But you don't care.

http://www.rimarkable.com/senator-john-mcc...blackberry-user



btw The only thing predictible is going to be the response of a ignorant, racist right wing ##### clown like you who ignores his mistakes, refuses back up his remarks with the facts, and can not support the utter ###### he spews.

Hey, maybe you ARE Jonah Goldberg!

This is merely a way that the right has embraced in order to avert our eyes from the fact that McCain and Palin represent "same old same old" and they are doing their damndest to try to con the public.

The sad part is that their cynical strtegy seems to be working. They are assuming that the American public has the collective IQ of a flock of chickens.

Republicans for change.


Thats like T-rexes for veganism.

Obviously, LC, you don't avail yourself of any of the extensive writings on this forum that might might change your viewpoint. Now, that's really intellectual of you. Flock of chickens? Hmmmmm........

I believe you read just one post before posting? Never let the truth interfere with your prejudices.

So true Cannon .

Still majoring in minors, and minoring in majors, whistling in the dark.

BTW, McCain is ahead of Obama in electoral votes. See here.

1. That poll admits that 104 electoral votes are a "toss up" while a mere 20 votes separate McCain and Obama. This so-called poll which projects electoral votes is extremely preliminary, and actually projects no election winner.

2. No sources are listed.

3. No method is listed.

4. You make a false claim based on a "poll" that appears to pull it's results from out its arse.

Nice try. What does Zogby or Rasmussen use for sources and method?

BTW, if you'd looked hard enough, I think you'd found your answer.
Not going to waste time arguing the typical liberal aversion techniques to avoid facing news.

Go to the webpage that you linked us to originally. Not a single citation or supporting link to be found.

SoloNav... If I write an article and I say in a separate page or a different article that I "use Zogby or Rasmussen" but not actually cite each individual claim in the piece in question, then I am not making valid claims. Even middle-schoolers know that.

Furthermore, serious pieces scholarship and journalism (especially those containing statistical analyses) contain at least a note about methodology. On top of that, even if RealClearPolitics.com is actually citing Zogby and Rasmussen, they are likely combining different poll types with different methods - hardly a recipe for accuracy. And let's assume that those polls are totally accurate and perfectly cited - my first and most important complaint about your post remains unaddressed.

And can you explain to me why those weekly polls about halfway down the page show Obama clearly in the lead - from June through September? There appears to be contradictory information on the website you link us to.

The post was about electoral votes, not the individual states' votes which are listed below. A candidate can have a plurality of states, but if that plurality of states carry small electoral votes it does no good. It's the electoral votes that elect people.

It happens often that a candidate wins the popular vote, but loses the electoral vote.

You spoke to soon, you silly SoloNazi. Do you really think you will be spared getting used to saying PRESIDENT OBAMA?! No, you won't. This is happening. The momentum has turned FOR GOOD. The momentum from the hockey dog is OVER! Obama on the road to a landslide!

http://www.zogby.com/50state/

Obama won't repeal 'don't ask' on his own
By NEDRA PICKLER – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democrat Barack Obama said if elected president he would not try to repeal the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on his own.

Obama said in an interview to run in gay publications Thursday that he wants to work with military leaders to build a consensus on removing the ban on openly gay service members in the armed forces. He said that wouldn't be accomplished by attaching a signing statement to a military spending bill, a process that President Bush has used to set other military policies.

"I want to make sure that when we revert 'don't ask, don't tell,' it's gone through a process and we've built a consensus or at least a clarity of what my expectations are so that it works. My first obligation as the president is to make sure that I keep the American people safe and that our military is functioning effectively," Obama said. "Although I have consistently said I would repeal 'don't ask, don't tell,' I believe that the way to do it is make sure that we are working through a process, getting the Joint Chiefs of Staff clear in terms of what our priorities are going to be."

"Don't ask, don't tell" is intended to keep the military from asking recruits their sexual orientation. In 1993, President Clinton implemented the policy, a compromise after he was unable to make good on his campaign pledge to open the military to gays.

Obama's interview was with Mark Segal, publisher of the Philadelphia Gay News, on behalf of the Gay History Project, a coalition of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender publications. Republican presidential nominee John McCain did not respond to an interview request, Segal said.

Obama also declined to commit to have his attorney general support a lawsuit against the Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal recognition of same-sex marriages and gives states the right to refuse to recognize such marriages. Obama said he's not sure the 1996 law would be overturned by the courts and he prefers a legislative solution.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hMYVcX0...098naQD938NKRO0



THAT IS ALL!!