Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Thank the Dems for the Economic Meltdown......
Political Topics And Discussion > All Things Political > US Political Topics
Nomad
Clinton

Liberals

Congress

Dems Again

Last But Not Least (drumroll please) Jimmy Carter

And now the dumb c*nt Pelosi and her whores are holding up the bailout package that will lessen the impact of the mess they are responsible for. Un fk believable!

I'm not giving the street a pass on this either. The old saying holds true..........The bulls make money, the bears make money and the pigs go broke. Well most of the pigs are broke now. But had it not been for the dems they would not have had the opportunity to go broke.

So let the blame fly.......... The facts cannot be refuted.


006.gif 006.gif 006.gif
Grizzly
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 23 2008, 01:27 AM) *
Clinton

Liberals

Congress

Dems Again

Last But Not Least (drumroll please) Jimmy Carter

And now the dumb c*nt Pelosi and her whores are holding up the bailout package that will lessen the impact of the mess they are responsible for. Un fk believable!

I'm not giving the street a pass on this either. The old saying holds true..........The bulls make money, the bears make money and the pigs go broke. Well most of the pigs are broke now. But had it not been for the dems they would not have had the opportunity to go broke.

So let the blame fly.......... The facts cannot be refuted.


006.gif 006.gif 006.gif


Foreclosure Phil
Henry Paulson. The New Cheney. (Goldman Sachs) 002.gif 002.gif 002.gif
SoloNav
For those with one-note, one-subject simplistic minds and accompanying simplistic solutions, read the below. Please. This is a complex problem involving multiple of personalites who have sat on the sidelines and did nothing while raking in the money.

See here.
QUOTE
Let's Start by Finding Some People to Behead: Michael Lewis
Commentary by Michael Lewis

Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- With Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. collapsing, and Merrill Lynch & Co. surrendering, and all hell breaking loose in the financial markets, Bloomberg News sent reporters out to gather some impressions from ordinary non- financial Americans.

Many had no idea what any of it meant but few were happy about it. They sensed they'd just been handed the role of the little fat kid in the game of crack the whip, who, at the start of the game, feels nothing at all but then suddenly finds himself launched headfirst into the neighbor's bushes.

They hadn't suffered yet but were preparing to, and they were perplexed by their inability to figure out who had the idea for this game.

``If I knew more I could find someone to blame,'' said Linda Burke, a 57-year-old service consultant at AT&T in Atlanta, speaking, no doubt, for the American people.

She'll probably never get her hands on the real villains of this piece. They're obscure; their crimes are hard to understand. Who inside Wall Street dreamed up the first subprime-mortgage- backed mezzanine CDO and allowed BBB credit to be laundered through the credit-rating companies and come out the other end as AAA? Who inside the credit-rating companies made the decision to rubber stamp the paper? Who inside Lehman Brothers -- and at all the other Wall Street firms -- fought to get into the business over the objections of saner traders?

This is a pleasant side-effect of Wall Street's complexity. Not only does it enable the firms to hide the risks they run; it allows the people who make fortunes, while at the same time helping destroy vast amounts of capital, to remain essentially unknown to the wider public.

Two Culprits

Even if they were to be somehow dragged out into the square for a shaming, no one would understand what they did. It's impossible to publicly humiliate a derivative.

There are, however, two culprits whose crimes are easy to grasp. I offer them up to Ms. Burke, so she can get to work on her feelings about them.

1) Christopher Cox. He's the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, and so has the job of regulating these companies that helped make it possible for every poor American to get a mortgage and are now, as a result, falling apart.

That, in itself, is no reason to blame him. He inherited a broken operation: the SEC has been morally bankrupt for some time now. The people who work for the place -- especially the ones who call the shots -- have for years had a disconcerting habit of leaving their low-paying government jobs regulating Wall Street firms for high-paying ones at those same Wall Street firms.

Systemic Corruption

They are meant to guard against systemic corruption when they are themselves systematically corrupt. It's hard for people who are paid $85,000 a year to police people who are paid $15 million.

Happily, you can still blame Cox for something. He went as far out of his way as he could to enable the brokerage firms by harassing the small group of informed financial people who have been trying to tell the truth to the markets: the short sellers. They bet against the stock price of a company and so have always had a bad reputation with the public. But in this case, they are the closest thing we have to heroes.

A man named David Einhorn is a case study. He runs a hedge fund called Greenlight Capital, which sells short some stocks and buys others. That is, he doesn't just bet against companies but for them, too.

Blaming Shorts

Still, for some time now, he's been standing up in front of large audiences, announcing that he was short Lehman Brothers stock, and then explaining in great detail its dubious accounting practices. The SEC responded by demanding to see his firm's e- mail, hinting darkly that he was part of some conspiracy to drive Lehman Brothers out of business, and generally making him feel that he'd pay a price for telling the truth.

Christopher Cox is probably a nice man who has no real idea what just happened. But for the way he treated people with the nerve to speak the truth to power you should feel free to blame him anyway.

2) The Wall Street CEO.

Stan O'Neal was the chief executive officer of Merrill Lynch, Dick Fuld was the CEO of Lehman Brothers, James Cayne was the CEO of Bear Stearns Cos. Each took home tens of millions of dollars in pay for making the decisions that destroyed his firm.

Stan the Man

Of the lot, O'Neal deserves perhaps the greatest scorn as he took a business that wasn't well designed to take huge trading risks and wagered it all on a single bet.

He screwed up the lives of more innocent people than the others. But interestingly, if any of these men had behaved well and resisted the pressures and temptations of the moment, his firm would have, for several years, dramatically underperformed the competition. Probably he would have lost his job.

Even O'Neal can probably look back on his performance and say to himself, ``There's nothing I'd do different, given what I knew at the time.''

That's what they all say -- right before they're beheaded.

(Michael Lewis is a Bloomberg News columnist and the author, most recently, of ``The Blind Side.'' The opinions expressed are his own.)
I got this from another forum. Go to the link for the links that are mixed among this article, in order to educate yourself.

From another website, here is the supposed solution as put out by the folks above and their friends in Congress that have helped them do the above.

Yes, both of these are long, but it's your money that's being talked about and your education needs to start NOW. It's better than spending the evening cruising this site for a poster with which to trade insults. Is it not?
KenRI
Gee, Solonav, I don't know if the griz is looking to insult others or if he's just out to bash McCain. Sure seems like the latter to me. huh.gif

I wonder if the griz knows about the FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005 which McCain was a co-sponsor.


Yup, you go griz, keep blaming the Republicans. 002.gif Maybe your Obama will save the day. 035.gif
SoloNav
Hi, KenRI, I noticed that you'd made a few post. Your input is greatly needed.

Glad to see you.

P.S. I've already mentioned the 2005 bill, but the libs have not responded except to change the target when they didn't make a bullseye. You know........dodging and twisting?
Nomad
QUOTE (Grizzly @ Sep 23 2008, 03:05 AM) *


Nice try Shemp, but muhtajones left out a few facts................
QUOTE
And in 1999, Gramm pushed through a historic banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firms—setting off a wave of merger mania.


Really? Why did they not mention the name of the bill? All bills have names. Why did they not mention the co-sponsors? And why did they not mention the perverted f*ck that signed it AND MADE IT LAW????

Educate Yourself Fool




Grizzly
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 24 2008, 12:27 AM) *
Nice try Shemp, but muhtajones left out a few facts................


Really? Why did they not mention the name of the bill? All bills have names. Why did they not mention the co-sponsors? And why did they not mention the perverted f*ck that signed it AND MADE IT LAW????

Educate Yourself Fool
From your site.
QUOTE
Of course economists criticized the way in which the Bush administration manufactured money by allowing anybody and everybody the opportunity to buy or refinance homes.
019.gif You see there was nothing wrong with the two coming together; what was wrong was for Phil Gramm to relax those regulations and oversight.
Nomad
Really? Why did they not mention the name of the bill? All bills have names. Why did they not mention the co-sponsors? And why did they not mention the perverted f*ck that signed it AND MADE IT LAW????

Who signed that bill Shemp???????????????????????
Grizzly
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 25 2008, 01:47 AM) *
Really? Why did they not mention the name of the bill? All bills have names. Why did they not mention the co-sponsors? And why did they not mention the perverted f*ck that signed it AND MADE IT LAW????

Who signed that bill Shemp???????????????????????
From my URL.

QUOTE
But Gramm's most cunning coup on behalf of his friends in the financial services industry—friends who gave him millions over his 24-year congressional career—came on December 15, 2000. It was an especially tense time in Washington. Only two days earlier, the Supreme Court had issued its decision on Bush v. Gore. President Bill Clinton and the Republican-controlled Congress were locked in a budget showdown. It was the perfect moment for a wily senator to game the system. As Congress and the White House were hurriedly hammering out a $384-billion omnibus spending bill, Gramm slipped in a 262-page measure called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Written with the help of financial industry lobbyists and cosponsored by Senator Richard Lugar (R-Ind.), the chairman of the agriculture committee, the measure had been considered dead—even by Gramm. Few lawmakers had either the opportunity or inclination to read the version of the bill Gramm inserted. "Nobody in either chamber had any knowledge of what was going on or what was in it," says a congressional aide familiar with the bill's history.
Kind of remind you of something? Like right now for instance. How does it feel to have the tables turned now? The same one that is going to sign this next measure. And who do you think that one will be? 002.gif 002.gif 002.gif
SoloNav
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 24 2008, 11:47 PM) *
Really? Why did they not mention the name of the bill? All bills have names. Why did they not mention the co-sponsors? And why did they not mention the perverted f*ck that signed it AND MADE IT LAW????

Who signed that bill Shemp???????????????????????

He's not going to answer you, Nomad. He doesn't want to say that Clinton signed the bill and pressured to have this written in order to allow low-income folks to get loans for houses....a pet liberal project for years now. And, found realtors and lenders eager to comply. They knew a lot of these buyers couldn't repay the loans, but what-the-hay it's all about commissions and $$. Right?

He'll just keep posting the same thing over and over, and calling it "done." (Personally, I worry about him.... unsure.gif ) for him to think this is convincing anyone but.......him that he's answered anything. laugh.gif
LooseCannon
From Political Intelligence:

QUOTE
John McCain unveiled a new TV ad this afternoon that tries to paint Democratic rival Barack Obama as so inexperienced on the economy that he has to listen to shady characters.

"Obama has no background in economics," the announcer says.

"Who advises him? The Post says it's Franklin Raines, for 'advice on mortgage and housing policy,' " the announcer says, citing a Washington Post report this week.

"Shocking. Under Raines, Fannie Mae committed 'extensive financial fraud,' " the announcer says, as another newspaper headline appears on screen. "Raines made millions. Fannie Mae collapsed."

Raines, the head of Fannie Mae from 1998 to 2004, agreed in April to pay nearly $25 million in a settlement with the government in an accounting scandal.

"Taxpayers? Stuck with the bill," the announcer continues, as an image of an elderly woman appears. "Barack Obama, bad advice, bad instincts. Not ready to lead."

UPDATE: Obama's campaign just issued a response, including a denial from Raines.

"I am not an adviser to Barack Obama, nor have I provided his campaign with advice on housing or economic matters," Raines said in a statement.

"This is another flat-out lie from a dishonorable campaign that is increasingly incapable of telling the truth. Frank Raines has never advised Senator Obama about anything -- ever. And by the way, someone whose campaign manager and top advisor worked and lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac shouldn't be throwing stones from his seven glass houses," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton.

In the tug-of-war this week over who can best respond to the Wall Street crisis, McCain has cited his proposal two years ago to rein in the quasi-public mortgage giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, and criticized Obama for his ties to them and his inaction.

"He took more money from Fannie and Freddie than any Senator but the Democratic chairman of the committee that regulates them," McCain said today in Iowa. "He put Fannie Mae's CEO who helped create this disaster in charge of finding his Vice President. Fannie's former General Counsel is a senior advisor to his campaign. Whose side do you think he is on? When I pushed legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Senator Obama was silent. He didn't lift a hand to avert this crisis. While the leaders of Fannie and Freddie were lining the pockets of his campaign, they were sowing the seeds of the financial crisis we see today and enriching themselves with millions of dollars in payments. That's not change, that's what's broken in Washington."


Also, McCain's chief adviser took money from Freddie Mac until last month. Here:


September 23, 2008
Categories: McCain
Rick Davis lobbying firm took Freddie Mac money through last month

QUOTE
Apparently, the Times still has "Davis envy," as McCain's chief called it earlier this week when another Times story prompted him to deny he had any ties to mortgage giant.

Jackie Calmes and David Kirkpatrick:

WASHINGTON-- One of the giant mortgage companies at the heart of the credit crisis paid $15,000 a month to a firm owned by Senator John McCain’s campaign manager from the end of 2005 through last month, according to two people with direct knowledge of the arrangement. The disclosure contradicts a statement Sunday night by Mr. McCain that the campaign manager, Rick Davis, had no involvement with the company for the last several years. Mr. Davis’s firm received the payments from the company, Freddie Mac, until it was taken over by the government this month along with Fannie Mae, the other big mortgage lender whose deteriorating finances helped precipitate the cascading problems on Wall Street, the people said.

They said they did not recall Mr. Davis doing much substantive work for the company in return for the money, other than speak to a political action committee composed of high-ranking employees in October 2006 on the coming midterm congressional elections. They said Mr. Davis’s his firm, Davis & Manafort, was kept on the payroll because of Mr. Davis’s close ties to Mr. McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, who was widely expected by 2006 to run again for the White House.

Mr. Davis took a leave from Davis & Manafort for the duration of the campaign, but as a partner and equity-holder continues to share in its profits.


The republicans were in control of congress by large enough margins to be able move legislation if enough republicans wanted to. They were very good at spinning anything because Bush and by extension republicans in congress were still riding high on the attack on 9/11so they were able to get their way (for instance the tax cut bill; the energy bill and partial birth abortion bill. They must not have wanted to pass the bill very much however much they might like to pretend to now.

I am curious though, if you guys are harping on democrats holding up the bill to provide oversight and regulation to Fannie Mae, you should be in favor of having oversight and regulation for this bail out bill.

As far as Fanni Mae and Freddie Mac there are just as many or more republican beneficiaries as democrats including John McCain.

Also, conservatives have a habit of blaming past democratic presidents for all the current crisis - even after two terms under Bush. ...
MrLeft
QUOTE
Also, conservatives have a habit of blaming past democratic presidents for all the current crisis - even after two terms under Bush. ...


They have to say that LooseCannon...

In the last 40 years, the oval office has been occupied by republicans for all but 12 years.

I mean, you don't expect them to take responsibility for making a hash of the remaining 28 years do ya?? rolleyes.gif


QUOTE
And now the dumb c*nt Pelosi and her whores are holding up the bailout package that will lessen the impact of the mess they are responsible for. Un fk believable!

I'm not giving the street a pass on this either. The old saying holds true..........The bulls make money, the bears make money and the pigs go broke. Well most of the pigs are broke now. But had it not been for the dems they would not have had the opportunity to go broke.

So let the blame fly.......... The facts cannot be refuted.


So Nomad, they're to blame because they were against regulating risky moves by AIG, Bear Stern and F&F?

What about Republicans who are/were against business regulation? What about John McCain? He was anti-regulation up until recently.

What about the past Republican held congress, why didn't they do anything?

Clinton?
The repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act was introduced by (get this!) McCain's adviser Phil Gramm. The legislation was veto proof so Clinton had to sign it. Not sure why you have to blame clinton for that.
Liberals?
It would help if he told me what bill he is referring to.
Congerss?
I don't know why you posted this. It's the same thing as above. And I still don't know what bill they are talking about.
Dems Again?
Again it's mentioning the same sh!t as the first articles you posted.
Last But Not Least (drumroll please) Jimmy Carter?
The CRA had very little to do with any of this. Half of the loans made in this crisis have no connection to the CRA. And a third of the companies thas lended these loans had little to do with CRA. Furthermore, the CRA was weakened in 2004 before the subprime lending and attorneys Traiger and Hinckley concluded that CRA banks were less likely to do these lendings and actually were a relief for this crisis.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articl...subprime_crisis

http://www.traigerlaw.com/publications/tra...tudy_1-7-08.pdf

MrRight
This tactic always strikes me as odd: blame the folks who didn't stop the bad guys, instead of blaming the bad guys.

I can see it with the people entrusted with security at a mental hospital, or those responsible for security at a nursing home for Alzheimer's patients - they are supposed to prevent the incompetent and deranged from harming themselves and others.

But to blame the Dems for not stopping the Reps from launching their binges of bad government and insane policies, one would assume that first the Dems would have to be in charge, at least. And the Reps not really capable of minding their own behavior.
Nomad
QUOTE (SoloNav @ Sep 25 2008, 07:28 PM) *
He's not going to answer you, Nomad. He doesn't want to say that Clinton signed the bill and pressured to have this written in order to allow low-income folks to get loans for houses....a pet liberal project for years now. And, found realtors and lenders eager to comply. They knew a lot of these buyers couldn't repay the loans, but what-the-hay it's all about commissions and $$. Right?

He'll just keep posting the same thing over and over, and calling it "done." (Personally, I worry about him.... unsure.gif ) for him to think this is convincing anyone but.......him that he's answered anything. laugh.gif

Hi Solo, I know we will never get a straight answer out of Shemp. If you look up "weasel" in the dictionary you will find his picture. He is a loser personified. He cannot, nor will ever be able to, even take a leak without the government holding it for him.... But that's OK. Flipping burgers for 40 years is a legacy one can be proud to take to the grave.

008.gif 008.gif 008.gif
Nomad
Funny stuff. Moe, Larry & Curly all post back to back with the same old lies and rhetoric. Looks like a multiple personality disorder here or at the very least mass delusion. Notice how the same old liberal pap was spouted and not one specific allegation was included in any of the three stooges posts.

Who Signed The Gramm Bill????
SoloNav
QUOTE (MrRight @ Sep 25 2008, 09:48 PM) *
This tactic always strikes me as odd: blame the folks who didn't stop the bad guys, instead of blaming the bad guys.
Grumble, Grumble, Grumble.

QUOTE
I can see it with the people entrusted with security at a mental hospital, or those responsible for security at a nursing home for Alzheimer's patients - they are supposed to prevent the incompetent and deranged from harming themselves and others.
Excuse me?

Republicans tried to, but were thwarted by the Democrats who blocked every effort to tighten up regulations for lending.

QUOTE
But to blame the Dems for not stopping the Reps from launching their binges of bad government and insane policies, one would assume that first the Dems would have to be in charge, at least. And the Reps not really capable of minding their own behavior.
The Republicans were not in charge of the agencies that ripped off the public with bad loans. These agencies were run by ex-Clinton officeholders who controlled these agencies and who took home tens of millions in bonuses which they had to cook the books in order to give themselves these bonuses. How is it that Republicans are responsible for this? I can see you've not been reading ANY of my posts on this issue. Or, you just don't want to face the truth? See here. Or, here. Just wanna stay blinded?
Grizzly
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 26 2008, 01:46 AM) *
Funny stuff. Moe, Larry & Curly all post back to back with the same old lies and rhetoric. Looks like a multiple personality disorder here or at the very least mass delusion. Notice how the same old liberal pap was spouted and not one specific allegation was included in any of the three stooges posts.

Who Signed The Gramm Bill????
Who sneaked the thing (Commodity Futures Modernization Act) through in the last moments when a spending bill was needed? Oops. That's right. The same people that walked out on an emergency meeting in Washington DC last night. That sure was a nice show there, McCain and the GOP. What do you guys do for an encore. 030.gif And since McCain isn't there anymore, I wonder if he will be in Ole Mississippi tonight? rolleyes.gif
MrLeft
QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 25 2008, 10:46 PM) *
Funny stuff. Moe, Larry & Curly all post back to back with the same old lies and rhetoric. Looks like a multiple personality disorder here or at the very least mass delusion. Notice how the same old liberal pap was spouted and not one specific allegation was included in any of the three stooges posts.

Who Signed The Gramm Bill????



I just mentioned that The Grahm Bill was veto-proof. So it was Clinton that signed it! Should we pass the mistakes of the Democratic congress onto George W, based on your logic?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.