mms://media4.streamtoyou.com/gwb/Pessimism_256k.wmv

Use a download tool, or just get the pessimism vid from dubyah's home page.

http://www.georgewbush.com


Democrats and liberals spliced with Hitler. Like Woody Allen's "Mussolini" scene in Crimes and Misdemeanours.

The Hitler scenes are in fact cut from an entry to moveon.org's Internet competition to produce an advert against GWB. The entry comparing him to Hitler did very poorly and was buried.

The Republicans have dug it up and tried to pin it to the Democrats, spliced clips of Gore/Moore inbetween the Hitler shots makeing the link of the "wild-eyed" left to the impassioned oratory of Hitler.

Just to be quite clear about where the Hitler scenes are originally from:

Some lunatic sends his appaling video along to a leftist, pro-democrat group, who are running a light-hearted competition to produce an anti-Bush advert to hypothertically be used during the superbowl. The clip did poorly and dissapeared into the internet ether... until now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0...4250094,00.html

You convinently left out this little paragraph in the article.

So,...........You are saying that "Turn About" is not fair play? It appears to me that you are allowing your bias to bleed through in this very enlightening thread here. So allow me to ask you this: are you biased toward the Left, or is the bias just toward the Democratic Party: or Both?

Absolutely, John. Now the shoe is on the other foot they cry like babies. No shame re. the ad where Bush is shown eating children

I stated quite clearly in my post exactly where the video comes from.







I dont support any political party in the US. Im from the UK.

I feel political bias here is unimportant...

What interests me is the fact the Republicans are attempting to use a video made by some internet crackpot to discredit John Kerry.

I would be really interested what logic was used to link John Kerry to this video.

You say it is "turnabout", but how is it turnabout to use a video made by an unknown anonymous internet submission to discredit a man who had nothing to do with it.


That would be like me attributing someone else's words and opinons to you. Surely you dont agree with that?

Perhaps politics is a bit too complicated for you. So I will explain.

Moveon.org, M. Moore, and others have made a concerted effort to bebase President Bush. They are clearly over the top, and should be reputiated. But Kerry has pointedly not mentioned this at all. If he was REALLY opposed to such things as the MoveOn use of Hitler, etc, he would have stated so. He pointedly has not.

So, a reasonable(notice this word) person would be able to add two things together and come out with the correct answer. I have. So why cannot you? And too as I mentioned in another thread to the Kook, he dares not do so, because it will cost him votes with the Kook Left, who would be more inclined to vote for Ralph Nader.

Now, are you still unable to see this?

You are assuming two things that are inaccurate:

1/ moveon.org is responsible for the video.

It is not. It was a submission to a competition it ran.

Thankfully America is a democracy and allows freedom of speech, a constitutional right, unlike repressive regimes. The downside of this is that people like the creator of this video submission can get away with such ludicrous drivel.

2/ John Kerry has to defend Bush from every nutcase who says something stupid about him.

Bush and Kerry should be concentrating on winning elections and engaging in the process of democracy which runs the country. There is no need for either of them to get bogged down with debunking every internet crackpot. God knows they'd soon be hampered in their day to day work if they had to do that!


The way to deal with these things is to let them lie and dissapear without a trace. and not to dredge them up. Using images of Hitler in a party political broadcast is just plain irresponsible, and to accuse Kerry of being affiliated with Michael Moore and the videos creator, is just as irresponsible.

And please dont accuse me of being unable to comprehend politics. I notice you started a thread calling for reason and rational argument. I think you should take some of your own advice.


Perhaps this is a bit complicated for you: not criticising something does not imply support. Claiming it does is verging on libel.

Not necessarily so. Moveon IS responsible for what it proudly displays on it's website. It ran those commercials for several days, UNTIL it was brought to light for one and all to see. Only when there was a huge stink raised, did they remove it.
And the very fact that Kerry does not come out and decry it's poor taste, clearly shows that Kerry wishes to play both sides of the fence and not take any moral position. So, what do you think Kerry will say when he is asked his opinion? Perhaps someone in the completely unbiased press will do so prior to the November election.

Youre right that moveon.org are reposible for what goes on their website, however do you really expect that these liberal, anti-bush partisans are going to get involved in stifling free speech.

At least they had the decency to remove it when the complaints came in.

The Republican party doesn't have that excuse unfortunately. The video uses symbolism to imply Gore and Michael Moore are frothing at the mouth loonies like Hitler. This type of thinking challenges the basic concepts of freedom in America, that dissenters are "wild-eyed" and "pessimistic".

If it is irresponsible of moveon to show the clip.. it is doubly irresponsible for the Republicans to

a/ Use imagery of Hitler to demonise political opponents.

b/ To try and pin the advert on Kerry himself.

As I said it is not Kerry's job to denounce dissent against Bush, just as it is not Bush's to defend Kerry in the face of criticism. It is the job of both men not to encourage such facile and ludicrous analogies, by simply letting them drop and not giving them free publicity.

I don't care what kind of dirty tactics the Bush regime uses in its desperate death dance of its doomed reelection effort.

I trust in the ultimate wisdom of the American people. They defeated Bush in 2000 (though he was saved by his friends in the supremely republican court) and he will be defeated again. The bottom line is that Americans do not like their presidents to be too radical, right or left. And Bush has revealed himself to be the most radically right wing, ideologically rigid, presidents in US history, and he will soon ne punished for this fault.

You need to get your thoughts together and make up your mind as to just what you think. A month ago, you were shouting and wringing your hands about how stupid people were. You said this numerous times. And now you are going to trust in their utlimate wisdom? Perhaps you are more than a Kook. Perhaps a split personality, no less?

We've been over this before, so why waste my time trying to chip a head made of granite.

And this is the biggest load of bilge that ever inhabited the bottom of a vessel. No Child Left Behind, Steel Tariffs for the Steel unions, Education reform, higher increase in government spending than even Clinton, giving Hildabeast and Chucky Schumer all the money they wanted for New York, etc., hardly makes him a Right Wing extremist.

But again, I'm taking up too much time on the likes of you. You are more than a Kook. You are a melevolent, conflicted KOOK! And I am stating an objective opinion here. No personal slurrs intended: just the unvarnished truth!

was that a bigotrist comment you just made john L?

I'm afraid it was. Even if it is the unvarnished truth, it is a slur. JohnL could do better than that, I think. Unlike some others he could, if he chose, make his points with more courtesy and fewer demeaning remarks.

Well excuse me D2 for being accurate, and being truthful also. But most of all, excuse me for not dripping with honey whilst debating with a person of questionable reason. Perhaps you can enlighten me with a little more clarification, since I am not a diplomat by half. I have never kissed anyone's bottom as of yet, so I find it extremely distasteful to begin here.

So enlighten me by showing the way.

John L. is only guilty of not suffering fools gladly.

JohnL, I am not questioning your accuracy or your truthfulness, no one is asking you to kiss ### or sugar coat anything you say. Opinions are more convincing when user friendly.

It has already been attempted. Reason AND tact are nice, when the other is willing to listen. However, once the attempt has failed upon several occassions, I will not continue to be sweet and suffer fools lightly. But, I will be civil to a practical point. And when I do walk the line, I always save my postings, just to be safe.

So, perhaps you might also go calling to some of the others here and suggest same of them. Perhaps we all can work out a compromise on how to be civil and argue our points, instead of the childishness that has invaded this forum of late.

As of now, there are some who have crossed the line more than once, and I do not acknowledge them any more. And if I offend anyone, perhaps they should request that we ignore each other, and I will be more than happy to oblige.

But as much as I disagree with Thaiquila, and am opposed to almost everything he believes, I have stood behind him and his right to his opinion on this forum. And I will continue to do so, no matter how Kooky he may be. But that does not mean that I must suffer him gladly.